With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

david · May 16, 2020

Z3r0Sama said:
Paul exercising terrible judgement as usual.

He can either help a version of himself, the closest thing to family he has, save their family and universe, or he can try to stop it and further risk the entire multiverse.

moralrelativity · May 16, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"And what happens if I help you?"

"I-. That… Might make things easier. Certainly… Safer. Would-? Would you?"

"Of course." I shrug. "You're only doing what I'd do in your place."

THIS is one of the key reasons I love this fic so much. OL is just so sensible [apart from when he's being dense and clueless, of course]. I think this part needs a Dept of Common Sense logo.

Whenever Possible · May 16, 2020

Taking all bets, folks, taking all bets.

How is this going to get screwed up?

I have "summons the anti-monitor" at even odds, "fuses all Paul-timelines into one mega-world" at 1:10, "Argel Tal wrecks the experiment as part of a Tzeetchian Time Loop, scattering the Paul's across the multiverse retroactively and opening the way for Chaos to spread across the local multiversal cluster" at 100:1, and "Grayven shows up" at 1 in 3

Queshire · May 16, 2020

Hmmmm.... even if they're the same guy that was pretty quick to agree. Still, I suppose one of the perks of orange enlightenment is that you never really need to ask someone to let you sleep on an offer.

Chojin Patriarch · May 16, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Homeward
Bound

"Thundercats?"

"Sort of. Most of the characters look different-. I can recognise most of them-"

I expect OL doesn't completely recognise the setting, then. One of those things you picked up after the time you chose for OL to be taken from?

I nod.

"-but the specifics have changed. And what little I remember of the setting appears to have been radically altered as well. What I'm living in actually makes a good deal more sense."

Heh, who'd have thought a series largely based around selling cat-people He-Man copycats and their cool vehicles to children wouldn't make perfect sense?

"How are you charging your ring?"

He raises his right hand, the two additional rings he acquired mid-fight having been returned to their owners.

So there's at least two other Yellow Pauls out there? Or Jades, or a combination of the two... Wonder where they're stuck?

"Something about the magic of Mum-Ra's sword allows me to connect to the yellow light directly, if I meditate on my fears for long enough." He looks at me hopelessly. "I don't suppose you've got a spare yellow personal lantern lying around, have you?"

I shake my head.

"I hired the Qwardian who made Sinestro's lantern, but I haven't asked him to make me spares."

And given what he did in canon to make a Yellow Ring, I don't recommend asking...

"Damn it."

He looks down, shaking his head.

"I don't know where Krona put the sword. Without it, my ring will die. I haven't spent any time learning their languages." He looks over to where Guardian Stewart and Commander Gordon are studying the tuning fork on this side, a version of me who thought that stapling wings onto his back was clever flying through the portal back to his Earth. "I'll have to ask if they've got a spare gold ring they can give me."

Oh-ho, Gabriel!Paul got snatched at some point? And I'm sure Gordon wouldn't mind handing out rings...

"I'd offer you an orange one, but I left both of mine back on my Earth." I shrug, holding up my ringless hands slightly. "Sorry." He nods. "Stupid thing is, I can make personal lanterns, too."

He looks up, frowning. "What? That's something we can do?"

...You know, with a little practice and some charge, Yaul probably could manage himself. How hard would it be to give him the specs? (Hint, hint)

"Yes. Ah, I haven't made a good one so far, but it would work."

"Damn. I didn't even try that. I just assumed that it was impossible. How exactly-?"

See? He's definitely interested. Though he might need to put some skill points on Ring Mastery...

"Yellow!"

Time Trapper me walks towards us.

Hmm... Like Darko asked, how does OL look? I'm picturing something a little more oriental in hairstyle? Not a tonsured queue, but more like a little bun on top? Think Cao Cao in Dynasty Warriors (nice hair ornament optional.)

"Your turn!"

He nods. "You haven't found a sword, have you?"

"No, but fortunately I'm a massively skilled expert in temporal manipulation, which means-" He sticks out his right hand, and-. Suddenly there's a huge sword in it. "-it was in my hand in the future all along. Here."

You could have done that at any time, couldn't you? And you let him sweat because...?

Time Trapper hands it to Yellow, who takes it and scans it with his ring before nodding.

"Do I thank you for finding it or curse you for hiding it?"

The joy of wonky Timey-Wimey stuff.

"Most societies don't have good vocabulary for dealing with paradoxes. Though technically this stopped being a paradox as soon as I handed it to you." He looks up. "John!"

"Ah…" Yellow looks at me, clearly not quite sure what to say. "No offence meant, but let's not do this again."

"Probably for the best."

And the prize for Understatement of Time's End goes to OL!

Guardian Stewart gestures and the hole above the tuning fork shifts, from Earth to another world entirely.

"Well… Goodbye."

He turns and flies, accelerating until he passes through the portal entirely.

I'm guessing he snagged a charge from the other Yellows before they left. He should have, if he was smart.

"Thundercats. I wondered if we were limited to comics, but it sounds like we could end up anywhere."

He nods. "Do you have a moment?"

"Do I have a moment… For an expert in temporal manipulation?"

Picturing both a smirk and a Spock Eyebrow here. Love that tone.

He looks away, smiling. "Yes, I-. Did you know that I'm you?"

I stare.

"No, that… Genuinely never occurred to me, given how we look completely different."

And the snark here. It's dripping all over the floor!

"No, not-. Most of those others were… Versions of us that ended up in different places after the event. I'm not. We're not."

"Okay, then… What are we?"

Ah, finally, OL learns the details of that little Time-Travel incident earlier, not that he remembers it anyway.

"We're separated by an alteration in the timeline. Vandal Savage went back, and… Long story short, you got erased, I got created, then I restored your timeline."

"Ah, thank.. you..? That seems out of character for us."

Nihilophobia, as you put it earlier? Would sound unlikely that you'd overcome it for the sake of another you.

He shakes his head. "My temporality was unstable. It would have collapsed eventually. This way I got a chance to recreate it, to change thing-."

"If you're planning on changing time back-."

"I'm going to be well within my rights to punch you in the face. Righteously so, even."

"No. If it would work, I'd do it. We both know that. It wouldn't work. Time won't allow it. Even…" He looks around. "Here, pseudo time can't support that much space. No, Krona-."

"Took your plan to an extreme when you tried to get his help."

A running thing for the emperor of dickhead scientists. Remember JLA/Avengers?

He frowns. "Something like that. How did you guess?"

"The one of us who freed you?" I pull an orange power ring out of my pocket and slide it onto my left ring finger. "He picked up a third ring. And downloaded images of you cooperating with Krona from a Manhunter. Sensible fellow."

You might say it's his super-power, in fact. He must really have sunk a lot of points into the rarely-used Common Sense tree. Most people ignore it because it defuses all the fun...

He looks away, shaking his head. "You'd think a Guardian would practice basic data security."

"So. What now?"

"So I use the tuning fork and the similarities and.. differences between us to create… Do you remember 'hypertime'?"

Ah, yes. DC's attempt to have a Multiverse during a period when Multiverses were banned via Editorial Fiat. But writers gotta write alternate universes...

"I remember the name."

"Essentially, I change the-. The parallel universe cluster we all exist in so that time changes beyond a certain level create a new timeline, rather than erasing the old one. Both our timelines will exist, and we can both go home."

So, indulging in some universal mechanics. And the tuning fork is his wrench?

"What's the risk?"

"I could horribly fuck up all of everything. Particularly if you try and stop me." He exhales. "I was hoping that you wouldn't have a ring."

So he could present me with a fait accompli.

Hopefully without the cliche, "Muhahaha! There's nothing you can do to stop me!" That would just get him stomped by narrative causality.

"And what happens if I help you?"

"I-. That… Might make things easier. Certainly… Safer. Would-? Would you?"

"Of course." I shrug. "You're only doing what I'd do in your place."

It's what he Wants, after all. And one thing OL is good at, is making prospective enemies get what they want so that they don't become enemies.

So, not much longer until all the Pauls and Jades have been sent home. Presumably, Maul and OL won't have to go anywhere, since this is Earth-16's Vanishing Point. At least it's an easy commute while he's helping Maul...

This way I got a chance to recreate it, to change thing-."

This way I got a chance to recreate it, to change things-." (Unless that was intentional...)

Ace Dreamer · May 16, 2020

Whenever Possible said:
Taking all bets, folks, taking all bets.

How is this going to get screwed up?

I have "summons the anti-monitor" at even odds, "fuses all Paul-timelines into one mega-world" at 1:10, "Argel Tal wrecks the experiment as part of a Tzeetchian Time Loop, scattering the Paul's across the multiverse retroactively and opening the way for Chaos to spread across the local multiversal cluster" at 100:1, and "Grayven shows up" at 1 in 3

You should have "A Wizard did it", in there, somewhere, and at far worse odds, "A Lizard did it", just to be really thorough.

Because lizards improve everything.

This is a fun scene, here. OL is talking to himself, and if you can't figure-out where you, yourself, are coming from, your own motivations, particularly if you can see them in other 'yous', then, you aren't going to do a good job in figuring out Life. Of course, different histories and we don't know how long Time Trapper has had in personal subjective time since they split.

I think you Mr Zoat are very brave to dare and write a story like this. Time travel really messes up the logic of most stories and confuses things on a grand scale. Then there's all the different flavours of time travel, and how splits occur, never mind playing fast-and-loose with causality. This story mostly hangs together and is a fun read. Congratulations!

I continue to want to see where this goes. Hypertime really messes with things on a grade scale!

Vaermina · May 16, 2020

david said:
He can either help a version of himself, the closest thing to family he has, save their family and universe, or he can try to stop it and further risk the entire multiverse.

Except even if he helps him there's still the possibility it will massively damage the multiverse.

Ngamer11 · May 16, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"And what happens if I help you?"

"I-. That… Might make things easier. Certainly… Safer. Would-? Would you?"

"Of course." I shrug. "You're only doing what I'd do in your place."

Saw that coming. Hopefully this actually works out. Then the Paragon can go back and file one of the most confusing reports the Justice League has ever gotten. Also, how would Jordan and Stewart react to finding out their counterparts replaced the Guardians?

Handlewithcare · May 16, 2020

Uff, okay, wait.

Time Trapper Paul is a version of Paul that got created through a time paradox.

He sacrificed his unstable line to recreate Big Orange.

But he wanted his own back.

Teamed up with Krona.

Krona wanted too...use all alternates to collapse their multiverse cluster to observe the event?

Now Trapper Paul has a new chance to alter time itself to allow his original line to exist again?

Did I get it right, Zoat?

Pinklestia · May 16, 2020

Vaermina said:
Except even if he helps him there's still the possibility it will massively damage the multiverse.

And if he doesn't help him is ANOTHER CRISIS after they just deal with one hours ago.

Both options can fuck things up, so why not pick the one were he helps himself?

Lothlo · May 16, 2020

I see a future "Council of Pauls" or a "Paralel Assembly of Uniformed Lanterns" as a way to keep contact, share notes, offer help to those Lanterns stranded in difficult dimensions, face off Crisis level dangers.

Agent Orange · May 16, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"So. What now?"

"So I use the tuning fork and the similarities and.. differences between us to create… Do you remember 'hypertime'?"

"I remember the name."

"Essentially, I change the-. The parallel universe cluster we all exist in so that time changes beyond a certain level create a new timeline, rather than erasing the old one. Both our timelines will exist, and we can both go home."

I don't get it. Doesn't the hypertime already exist? Renegade is also a single change away from Pavlos and on an instance of Earth-16. Same goes for Sybarite I think. So what's up with this? Why is Maul's instance wrong. Why does he need to create something that already seems to exist? Am I misunderstanding what 'hypertime' is?

Sockmonkey · May 16, 2020

Lothlo said:
I see a future "Council of Pauls" or a "Paralel Assembly of Uniformed Lanterns" as a way to keep contact, share notes, offer help to those Lanterns stranded in difficult dimensions, face off Crisis level dangers.

Who can't actually call themselves that, because none of them can say that name.

Vaermina · May 16, 2020

Pinklestia said:
And if he doesn't help him is ANOTHER CRISIS after they just deal with one hours ago.

Both options can fuck things up, so why not pick the one were he helps himself?

You forgot option 3.

Paul doesn't help Time Trapper, and instead stops Time Trapper before he can even make the attempt thus not putting the multiverse at risk at all.

Stsword · May 16, 2020

Agent Orange said:
I don't get it. Doesn't the hypertime already exist? Renegade is also a single change away from Pavlos and on an instance of Earth-16. Same goes for Sybarite I think. So what's up with this? Why is Maul's instance wrong. Why does he need to create something that already seems to exist? Am I misunderstanding what 'hypertime' is?

Hypertime is alternate universes of the "every possibility happened somewhere."

So yes, Mandate Earth would already exist in Hypertime, in fact every permutation of Mandate Earth would exist in hypertime.

I would assume the issue is more personal than cosmic, here.

Yes, Mandate Earths exist in Hypertime.

But they aren't Mandate Paul turned TT's Mandate Earth, they would have their own Mandate Pauls.

Power Girl had a similar experience. She's from Earth-2. Dimensionally travelling, she came across an Earth-2. An Earth-2 that already had its own Power Girl.

He's looking for a Mandate Earth where he isn't an extra jigsaw piece.

Mr Zoat · May 16, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
This way I got a chance to recreate it, to change things-." (Unless that was intentional...)

Thank you, corrected.

Handlewithcare said:
Uff, okay, wait.

Time Trapper Paul is a version of Paul that got created through a time paradox.

He sacrificed his unstable line to recreate Big Orange.

But he wanted his own back.

Teamed up with Krona.

Krona wanted too...use all alternates to collapse their multiverse cluster to observe the event?

Now Trapper Paul has a new chance to alter time itself to allow his original line to exist again?

Did I get it right, Zoat?

Sounds about right.

Old Knife · May 16, 2020

Fallout Paul/Krononeeds to be here. It's like he's missing a party.

Agent Orange · May 16, 2020

Stsword said:
Yes, Mandate Earths exist in Hypertime.

But they aren't Mandate Paul turned TT's Mandate Earth, they would have their own Mandate Pauls.

Power Girl had a similar experience. She's from Earth-2. Dimensionally travelling, she came across an Earth-2. An Earth-2 that already had its own Power Girl.

He's looking for a Mandate Earth where he isn't an extra jigsaw piece.

While I like the explanation that's not quite what he said. I could be having a reading comprehension failure but I think he said that he wants to change how the local multiverse cluster reacts to time shenanigans from '(big enough) change to the past changes the present' to '(big enough) change to the past creates a new branch/stable parallel timeline'. So that Mandated parallel can exist without ~~Gaia~~ Time constantly trying to erase it from existence. Am I wrong?

edit: If all he wants is a Mandated parallel why not just pick one where he never appeared or where he died early in his career? He wasn't the one who caused that timeline to happen, Vandal Savage did.

Z3r0Sama · May 16, 2020

Vaermina said:
You forgot option 3.

Paul doesn't help Time Trapper, and instead stops Time Trapper before he can even make the attempt thus not putting the multiverse at risk at all.

Bill and Ted solution.

Time Trapper:After beating you I will go back and give myself the very thing I used to beat you!

OL:I got that reference! Also fuck timeywimey!

Pinklestia · May 16, 2020

Vaermina said:
You forgot option 3.

Paul doesn't help Time Trapper, and instead stops Time Trapper before he can even make the attempt thus not putting the multiverse at risk at all.

You forget that while having a ring he would be basically be facing himself, only the other him has time powers and is better prepared.

Meanwhile Paul doesn't have all his stuff.

Stsword · May 16, 2020

Agent Orange said:
While I like the explanation that's not quite what he said. I could be having a reading comprehension failure but I think he said that he wants to change how the local multiverse cluster reacts to time shenanigans from '(big enough) change to the past changes the present' to '(big enough) change to the past creates a new branch/stable parallel timeline'. So that Mandated parallel can exist without ~~Gaia~~ Time constantly trying to erase it from existence. Am I wrong?

edit: If all he wants is a Mandated parallel why not just pick one where he never appeared or where he died early in his career? He wasn't the one who caused that timeline to happen, Vandal Savage did.

Yes, I know what he said.

In my explanation, Gravy's, Common Sense Paul's, and Sybarite's YJ-Earth exist as shown.

In Mandate Paul's explanation, they don't exist, because according to him universes don't branch.

When/if Mandate Paul explains how these extra universes happen to exist, there seems to be a hole in his theory. A hole big enough for a universe.

Agent Orange · May 16, 2020

Stsword said:
When/if Mandate Paul explains how these extra universes happen to exist, there seems to be a hole in his theory. A hole big enough for a universe.

Simurgh did it?

edit: also, should [Paul Trapper] be distinct from [Maul] ? They were originally the same Paul instance.

Mr Zoat · May 16, 2020

Stsword said:
Yes, I know what he said.

In my explanation, Gravy's, Common Sense Paul's, and Sybarite's YJ-Earth exist as shown.

In Mandate Paul's explanation, they don't exist, because according to him universes don't branch.

When/if Mandate Paul explains how these extra universes happen to exist, there seems to be a hole in his theory. A hole big enough for a universe.

On Grayven's Earth, four leaf clovers are very common and five leaf clovers are considered lucky.

It hasn't come up in the story yet.

/troll

Darko · May 16, 2020

Hey Zoat how many more Paragon centered episodes are we going to get before we see a renegade centered one again?

Typically your style seems to be a handful of paragon chapters before making one or sometimes two renegade ones and I was just wondering if it was going to be like this in the next few episodes.

Agent Orange · May 16, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
On Grayven's Earth, four leaf clovers are very common and five leaf clovers are considered lucky.

It hasn't come up in the story yet.

Oh, well, such a drastic difference explains everything. Next thing you'll tell us that Mandated Earth produced 3 seasons of Firefly (just with gratuitous English instead of gratuitous Mandarin).

The Chosen One · May 16, 2020

Darko said:
MASSIVE FUCK UP APPROACHING!

DANGER! DANGER! WILL ROBINSON! RUN FOR COVER!

How does Time Trapper look exactly if Paul didn't recognize him as an alternate version?

A mysterious figure in a hooded purple robe, until recently. In this chapter specifically I think Paul is just being sarcastic.

Ace Dreamer · May 16, 2020

Agent Orange said:
Oh, well, such a drastic difference explains everything. Next thing you'll tell us that Mandated Earth produced 3 seasons of Firefly (just with gratuitous English instead of gratuitous Mandarin).

Someone needs to grab copies of those, and subtitle them.

Darko · May 16, 2020

Ace Dreamer said:
Someone needs to grab copies of those, and subtitle them.

If OL does go to other universes that were created by fanfic writers then he can go to the universe of 'Assimilation' by Satire Swift.

There were apparently 5 seasons of Firefly produced in that universe.

Sadly there was no Farscape.

Stsword · May 16, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
On Grayven's Earth, four leaf clovers are very common and five leaf clovers are considered lucky.

A five leaf clover is supposedly just as lucky as a four leaf clover, just as the fourth leaf brings luck, the fifth is supposed to bring wealth.

This useless bit of trivia sponsored by my googling the significance of five leaf clovers after Black Clover got me curious as to what the folklore actually was.

Darko · May 16, 2020

With OL saying goodbye to his alternates I can't help but wait in anticipation for his farewell with Raul.

That particular version truly is a treasure.

He reminds me of a certain knight.

Like this knight his beautiful words and eloquence have won him the heart of a beautiful...ahh...'maiden'...yeah let's go with that.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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