With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Getting back on topic. Does anyone else think that these could be minions of the Queen of Fables? It would make some sense for her to employ a fictional species as minions. Are there any other villains who can bring fictional beings to life?

 

But.... they're not fictional. They're magical, but that's totally fine on Earth-16

 

My understanding of the last two chapters is that these creatures resemble an in-universe fictional depiction of Gnomes which also inaccurately described them as the foot-soldiers of dragons.

 

Personally, I'm surprised they're not kobolds. They really fit the description, anyway. And I don't think D&D copyrighted them.
And besides, they're so universally known nowadays that it's hardly even a D&D thing anymore.

 

Well Kobolds as a fantastical creature have been around longer than D&D, but the little dragon man version of them is pretty specific to D&D.

 

Hmm, most stories which have fictional creatures "really" exist have the cause be some internal mechanic of the universe, like "people knowing a story causes it to be true in a new world, and those worlds have access to 'our' world" (Fable).
That is, their proximal cause is (meta)physics, and their ultimate cause is stories, so they are legitimately both fictional and real.
If a person, like Queen of Fables, is the proximal cause of their existence, can they really be said to be fictional, or are they just based on a fictional character?
Under the assumption that these not-Gnomes are created from this book illustration deliberately (presumably by this dragon?) they would be the same.

That said,

Makes it sound a lot more like some doofus just called some creatures Gnomes incorrectly, and they are just a original creation of dragons out something.

 

Th difference between fiction and reality is that reality doesn't go away when you stop believing in it. So this is a testable mechanism that can be applied to these things. If everyone stops believing in them, do they go away?

 

Sure, but that definition of "fictional" simply excludes the possibility of a "real fictional" character. That's self consistent, but boring!

 

This is a strange, strange conversation yet it is still better than the preceding one.

 

Being Jewish is not just an opinion on God - some people will get insulted. For Humanistic Jews - it’s more about following a code of laws and traditions and therefore being considered Jewish than it is about religious belief - they celebrate all their holidays without any mentions of God. Unreligious people can also be Jews. Unlike, say, Messianic Jews (believe in Christ), Humanistic Jews are still widely considered to be Jewish. There are also “Hinjews” - people who claim to be both Hindi and Jewish.

It is also sometimes a race - you can be considered Jewish through matrilineal descent. Since for some sects it’s more about following ethnic tradition rather than law/ religion, this is also perfectly valid by some definitions.

It’s also a group of people who follow a particular set of laws. While Jewish law is shared between all sects, the interpretations of it are often debated, and the degree to which it is followed - including nearly none - is also highly up to interpretation.

You can be one or more of these and still be considered Jewish, despite all the contradictions. It’s really a bizarre (from an outside perspective) mix of race, religion, and creed. Especially so because Jews are people who follow one or more of those - but not necessarily all.

The one thing that really unifies most of these sects is that it is really hard to become Jewish if you are not born into it. It definitely requires talking with a rabbi, and usually knowing personally someone that is Jewish. Also, a fairly long period during which you have to follow Jewish laws before you can get inducted. It is sort of like an exclusive club of people that get circumcised and celebrate certain holidays.

So no, Judaism isn’t just an opinion on god, or a race, but it is both and neither or one or the other.

I mostly got this information from Jewish people I know - but also checking online:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-jewish-denominations/amp/

 

These things (spiky gnomes) are really obscure. I don’t think anyone believes in them or knows what they are - outside some scholars. They might be powered by people’s belief in dragons, though. Magical power is definitely real and possibly supported by the white light - it’s definitely powered by the soul, which mainly consists (I think) of White light. You could call the soul in this fic a White Elemental and not be too far off. In which case, a bunch of souls creating another soul artificially through belief might make sense.

 

Even setting aside our meta-knowledge going straight to story book creatures come to life seems like a pretty big leap.

 

They have brains of their own - and can understand a language - the queen of fables didn’t copy that in her earlier scene.

 

If the Queen of Fables could actually create living thinking beings I am pretty sure she would have created something more along the lines of naked men built like Greek statues instead of those things.

 

That's nice, but as a Jewish person who went to Jewish school, can read Hebrew, majored in history with a focus on Israel and ancient Israel, and has a social circle with people that range from Jewish-Atheists to actual Rabbis, I'm saying you're wrong. It is a belief system, and whether in your opinion that belief system is morally or actually correct. The belief system can vary as it's based on a series of books that cannot, if you're jewish, be changed as the guides to morality. Belief in those books are the only things that define Judiasm, they can be interpreted to support whatever the hell you want. Whether you believe Rashban or Rashbam, or your own made up interpretation, as long as you follow those books as the ultimate guide to morality you're Jewish. You can be Jewish if your mother is Jewish, or you can reinterpret that section of the Tanakh to say that you're not. There is no pope of Judaism, dude, it's your own damn opinion of the interpretation of the Tanakh.

 

Hahaha, we're going to have an orange lantern dragon.

 

We better. We already have a battle station and planet orange lantern. If we get a dragon then all we need is an undead lantern and we'll have the greenies beat.

 

Thank you, corrected.

 

Isn't a dragon basically just a knock off orange lantern?

I.e. a greed driven doom generator?

 

Sort of my point. It is a belief system, but it’s so varied that some people in it don’t even believe in God. And those people are still considered semi-mainstream. It’s not just a belief in god, and it is also an ethnicity - and therefore a race.

The further point (the start of the conversation) is someone can say. You don’t believe in god. You are not Jewish, even if your mother was and believe they are right. To them it’s a fact and nothing to take offense over. To the other person it’s highly offensive, if they believe they are Jewish. However, the first person can still tolerate that second person - just think they are mistaken and therefore not be a bigot. Sort of what Zoat did.

Edit: nvm, looked over sequence of posts, and this is a logical tangent. Judaism is not just a race, but a belief system, and therefore bigotry applies in the definition provided.

 

I think I'd prefer it if he assimilated it.

"Nameless dragon, you belong to the Orange Lantern Corps."

Major improvement over Praexis Demons.

 

Well, that was hilarious.

Really don't like West Ham huh?

 

*sniffles*

There's just so much beauty in the world.

 

I don’t think you know what ethnicity means. Judaism is all opinion based on the Tanakh, which does not make it an ethnicity. You can believe it is passed down from your parents, but that’s still an opinion. Either do more research or accept you don’t actually want to listen to your opposition. You’re not an expert in Judaism because you googled it, and frankly I’m offended that you think you are.

 

Something like the true names give you power through sympathetic magic rule might apply for dragons.

 

Ok, I agree. Leave it at that. Ethnicity (from what I understand) is based on tradition. Being based on Tanakh definitely makes it one. Also makes bigotry apply. I am/ was misinterpreting race. Sorry.

 

I'm offended that you're offended. Being offended doesn't make you right. Let's leave it there.

 

He’s right - this is something he could be considered an expert in. Just leave it.
Edit: Also, according to google: while the Jews are considered a race according to the US Supreme Court, this is considered offensive by many Jews. My own (apparently mistaken) opinion came originally from seeing it as an option on a standardized test.

 

Looked up the dragon's name.

"Drakul Karfang, you belong to the Orange Lantern Corps."

The wiki says she can burn people up using the fear and hatred they have inside of them. Who wants to bet that an Enlightened OL can resist that.