1. For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If you wish to change your username, please ask via conversation to tehelgee instead of asking via my profile. I'd like to not clutter it up with such requests.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Welcome back to QQ. The search function will be unavailable for some hours until the index has been rebuilt.
    Dismiss Notice

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

Loading...
  1. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    I’ve never touched any of Wildbows other works, my logic being that if I couldn’t bring myself to finish Worm then I probably won’t enjoy the others. Also I’m lazy :(
     
    dogbertcarroll and Vorian like this.
  2. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,691
    Likes Received:
    4,261
    Seems to be that way, maybe this is supposed to be a morality story about thinking might makes right.


    If he doesn't know something that obvious.

    It's likely he also killed a couple undercover cops in his murder spree.

    I don't say this about fictional characters very often, but Lord Protector may actually be an idiot.
     
    MadMarx420 likes this.
  3. Coda

    Coda I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    1,994
    Being a (successful) gymnast requires an exceptionally good kinesthetic sense. It requires exceptionally good control over your body. It requires awareness of your environment, physical fitness, and discipline.

    It doesn't grant combat skill in and of itself, and gymnastic maneuvers are worthless in a fight, but being a good gymnast does very much build on the same fundamentals that are required for combat skill. A gymnast is probably going to be better off than a non-gymnast given the same level of combat training.


    Wildbow is a competent writer. He always had a solid baseline level of skill, and he's been getting better as he gets more experience. Being competent doesn't mean that everything you write is going to be good, especially when you have that much volume on that kind of schedule, and it also doesn't mean you can remember absolutely everything you've previously established. And long-running serials are harder than novels. You can't (easily) go back and make changes if you realize you've made a significant mistake or change your mind, and putting yourself on a schedule means you have less time to review. Having that much content to deal with also means that (in absolute terms) there's going to be more bad parts.

    The common thread across his work is the constant escalation. If having things steadily get worse and worse is something you don't want to read, then you probably won't enjoy the others. If it's just the characters and the setting, his other stories are distinctly different and it might be worth at least taking a look.
     
    WhiteNoise, Vorian, Ardy and 2 others like this.
  4. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    Il consider it and it’s been a very long time since I’ve read Worm I might enjoy it the second time round but I’ve got loads of different books and comics I’m going through right now so on the back burner for now.
     
  5. Darko

    Darko Experienced.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    3,476
    Likes Received:
    14,740
    It's not exactly obvious that she's left the E88.

    His info on her was probably taken from some database and that database could still classify her as a criminal.

    The fact that she has continued to target minorities doesn't exactly help her image as having left the E88.

    Yes they are criminals, but the rest of the E88 is also fighting those criminals and people still consider them to be criminals.


    It's also likely that the data he took from law enforcement allowed him to distinguish who was an actual cop and who was an actual criminal.

    You say this every day.

    I'd say that qualifies as you saying it very often.
     
    ElvishPresley, Vorian and Ardy like this.
  6. Ganurath

    Ganurath Apologizes For Nothing

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    16,072
    Plurality is the largest minority, not the loudest. Being the latter doesn't automatically make one the former.
     
  7. PDV

    PDV The Revelation That Uncertainty is Itself a Answer

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    483
    He's gotten better at characterization and worse at everything else.
     
    Ardy likes this.
  8. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    How much of Worm has actually been retconned by Wildbow? I think there was a point about how he edited an earlier chapter so that instead of a character escaping they die but that’s all I can remember.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  9. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,691
    Likes Received:
    4,261
    He didn't actually take any private data from law enforcement.

    They knew about Purity.

    On that note, I am suddenly looking forward to Dragon bitch slapping his Ring AI the first time it tries to access one of the systems she protects.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  10. Darko

    Darko Experienced.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    3,476
    Likes Received:
    14,740
    How would he know about Lung, his gang, Uber and Leet if he didn't take data from law networks and has no prior knowledge of Worm?

    Leave a citation that proves law enforcement knew Purity left the E88 and kept it in their records.

    You do know how powerful power ring AI are?

    Dragon would be lucky to be able to touch his AI, let alone actually do anything against it.
     
    BoML, RGFJ, Ardy and 1 other person like this.
  11. Ganurath

    Ganurath Apologizes For Nothing

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    16,072
    That's the only thing he changed. The big controversy is that he'd been too subtle in Worm in conveying that Amy had raped Victoria, which resulted in fanon that Victoria's condition as a Cronenberg was due to a healing mishap, despite the text explicitly saying that the healing process hadn't had any complications. This fanon subsequently resulted in Amy being heavily woobified by the readers, often shipping her with Taylor because lesbians. Since it came in the aftermath of the Browbeat retcon, which I personally believe could've been handled just by saying that Browbeat died offscreen in Gold Morning, more than a few people have reacted poorly to a revelation that, to them, feels like a retcon.
     
    Brammmm3 and Cuchulin like this.
  12. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    How? Power rings are well above anything Tinkers should have. Power rings are ridiculously advanced even by comic book standards, I’d be surprised if anything can fully stop a power ring.
     
  13. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,691
    Likes Received:
    4,261
    You mean how did he know about easily accessed publicly available information? o_O

    Yes actually we do know how powerful power ring AI's are.

    And the answer is, not very.

    In fact, they aren't even really an "AI" so much as, well, to put it in Mass Effect terms, a virtual intelligence.

    And while sure it can brute force things, or use physical access abuse to get past various types of digital defenses, against a digital AI you would basically see some code roll it's eyes and throw up a firewall that basically just no-sells it.
     
  14. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    You are truly underselling the capabilities of a power ring, unless dragon is super paranoid and has crap ton of varying defences on her systems. Getting into her systems via a power ring is not going to be difficult even if it has to result in brute forcing it. If you mean the actual intelligence of the ring ye it’s not sapient like a true AI but it’s more powerful then dragon ever will be.

    The AI helps a lot in accomplishing tasks that without it would be either impossible or much more difficult. It’s more of a case of Paul’s ring having much more resources and power behind it while Dragon has intelligence and creativity.

    Tinker tech is advanced but it’s not maltusian level tech. So even if Paul did have difficulties initial its not something he’d have difficulty overcoming.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
    Darko, Ardy and RGFJ like this.
  15. NeoDarklight

    NeoDarklight The Final Observer

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    186
    I kinda skimmed through all the other comments since my last post, but in the end, it looks like Mr Zoat will have to force himself to read the train wreck that is Worm if he wants to have any sort of accuracy to the characters. Simply because most fanfiction about Worm follows fanon that alters their personalities, or misrepresents powers, and various alterations due to misunderstandings or trying to make “sense” of things. Scion being a dumbass who cheats using precognition to fake sapience is canon, though. He does not have the mental flexibility to think for himself. That was Eden’s job.
     
  16. Information era

    Information era Getting sticky.

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2020
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    195
    Power rings have been hacked by random muggles before. Multiple times. Not only by people like Batman, but aalso random people angsty about their wife dying. Which describes both Sivana and the other random muggles who wasn't even super powered. Heck on this story, Sivana and co have hacked them multiple times.

    Dragon is ata true ai based upon all of the technology that the worms have encountered previously. On *top* of that, she has the super power of being able to understand high tech technology.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
    Austin Pharos and Vaermina like this.
  17. Chaoswind

    Chaoswind Lord of nonsense

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    I had the understanding that part of the reason power ring AI are so broken is because their OS operates on one of the emotional spectrums and thus get to bypass a lot of shit in the same way using magic to hack shit "It just works"


    They aren't necessarily mentally flexible (usually the absolute opposite) their OS and hardware is just orders of magnitude better than pretty much everything else.
     
    Vaermina likes this.
  18. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    Dragons tech while advanced isn’t anywhere near as advanced as a power ring, she doesn’t have access to the entirety of the knowledge that the Entities have that’s just nonsense. Also the examples you mention people like Sivana? They’re not really representative of the average person since they’re basically comic book super geniuses. Half the shit they make is centuries at the very least ahead of what anyone else has.

    Not saying it’s going to be rofl stomp but I doubt paul will have too much difficulty.
     
    Cuchulin, Darko and Ardy like this.
  19. Brammmm3

    Brammmm3 Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2020
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Honestly while I love Worm, I found his other stories in some ways more enjoyable.

    Twig had a great setting and absolutely fantastic characters, Pact had horrible pacing but my favorite setting.

    Ward had great characterization and in my opinion a more engaging setting. Tattletale/Victoria is now best ship no question.

    But I will admit the plotting was not that ...great. Especially towards the end. :(

    I'm also loving Pale by the way. It's got a great combination of great characters, settings, and plot. It's so enjoyable, it's shaping up to be my favorite story.
     
    Cuchulin likes this.
  20. Ace Dreamer

    Ace Dreamer Questioning The Nature of our Realities

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2019
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    2,250
    People would have a much higher opinion of the Ring AI if it had a pop-up cute girl avatar called 'Ring-tan'. :)
    (see OS-tan)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
    Darko, Vorian and MadMarx420 like this.
  21. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    Something you need to consider that as a product of a large mainstream comic company, that hires dozens of different writers to write stories about the same character, you're going to get inconsistencies, retcons, past actions being ignored and characters sometimes behaving in stupid ways, PIS etc. There's also the fact that you have movie versions, many different comic iterations etc.

    If we base this Pauls Lantern ring on what we've seen lantern rings do and what they've said to be able to do in this fic then we've been show plenty of times that Power Rings are stupidly powerful, capable of doing a immensely large variety of different things with incredible precision over very long distances.

    They are stupidly OP and nothing we've seen from Worm comes to that level of complexity, power and precision in such a tiny form factor. Combine that with someone who knows how to use that properly then it becomes even more so. Let's also not forget that it's powered by the emotion of all sapient life.

    A lot of the problems Paul has faced in this fic in general has less to the do with the ring and more to do with who he's up against and Paul himself. He's had his ring stolen but that was due to Paul himself and not the ring. Yes the Sivanas did get access to his ring's storage but that was fixed after Paul learned how to protect himself from that and considering that Worm doesn't have anyone close to as intelligent as the Sivanas, means that I'm not worried. Any issues Paul faces especially tech wise will imo be dealt with quite quickly. Some of the more estoric stuff might give him trouble but that's it.

    It won't be complete smooth sailing but the odds are not against him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
    Cuchulin, Darko, Ardy and 1 other person like this.
  22. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,691
    Likes Received:
    4,261
    Yup, Power Rings might be advanced hardware wise, but software wise, at least by the standard of a civ that can build real, non-insane murderbot AI, they are kind of pathetic.

    On that note, we know the Malthusians are a lot less advanced when it comes to software then when it comes to hardware.

    Case in point, their attempt at making AI, was the rather pathetic Manhunters.
     
    Cuchulin and Austin Pharos like this.
  23. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    Probably a side effect of a race advancing so quickly and not having many people who can take them only early which probably resulted in them being complacent on just never feeling like they'd have to focus on software. Also the Manhunters weren't "pathetic" unless I'm getting my continuity wrong their software was fucked with by Krona, who you know is also another maltusian who knows how all their tech works. Also having raw willpower running through their bodies probably hasn't helped in the whole creative thinking section.
     
    Cuchulin and Darko like this.
  24. Gilhelmi

    Gilhelmi Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    486
    I am left to wonder something with these side stories. Is Mr. Zoat setting up a future storyline like with the "Crisis of Infinite Paul's".

    I could see some Hero from another Parallel going from Universe to Universe trying to kill all the Paul's, assuming they are all evil. Then finding OL Paul Prime (or Gravyen) he attacks and they get into a fight where OL has to talk his way out of things. Then; OL Paul, Chinese Paul (formerly Time Trapper), Gold Lantern (formerly Anti-Green), and Gravyen (because I still want OL to meet Gravyen) are all forced to join forces against an evil coalition of Evil Pauls to try to save the Multiverse from his/their tyranny.

    A time-skip is likely in the near-to-mid future, this would keep Paul away from Universe-16 long enough for the Reach to get to Earth.

    Or I am reading to much into things like usual.

    Side note, I had to catch up a bit so I am late to the party. I am so excited to see OL talking to Kori about getting her a Blue Lantern. That would be amazing, and she would be officially duel wielding different colored power rings before OL. Maybe later her sister (Komand'r) will get a Red Lantern because, well I do enjoy some chaos from time-to-time.
     
    Darko likes this.
  25. Information era

    Information era Getting sticky.

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2020
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    195
    When I say that power rings have been hacked by random muggles before I mean it. Some random guy named James Palmer was able to inflict power incontinence on a green lantern.

    Dragon is pretty much the best ai that is able to be made by the entities and she is able to augment herself with all the other tinker tech because of her thinker trump power.

    Also keep in mind, it was sivanas children who hacked into the storage, and a strong tinker can probably at least match Sivana within their speciality if not be a bit better.
     
    Cuchulin likes this.
  26. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    I don't know who James Palmer is but a quick search isn't showing me anything, it was probably a case of the user being stupid or DC writing being fucking awful, ie. PIS. You could be right though but Power Rings are bullshit levels of advanced so who knows really.

    Honestly I've said this before but I'll say this again, the issues with these Worm chapters are less to do with Yellow Paul and probably more to do with Zoat never having read worm and not probably not giving a fuck too much over a short 2-3 mini story.
     
    Cuchulin, Darko and Ardy like this.
  27. Ace Dreamer

    Ace Dreamer Questioning The Nature of our Realities

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2019
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    2,250
    All Mr Zoat has to say is that this's a Worm AU, and he's Golden...
     
    Darko and Ardy like this.
  28. Information era

    Information era Getting sticky.

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2020
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    195
    He was just a random muggles. It is from justice league #9 with the Simon baz lantern.
     
  29. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    836
    lmao, sounds dumb but I'll check it out. I haven't read any of the recent stuff with Simon baz, I think I read some of the phantom lantern stuff but I am fucking tired of so many greenies on earth, so many other colours and they keep throwing more greens. Fucking lazy writing.
     
    Darko and Ardy like this.
  30. Information era

    Information era Getting sticky.

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2020
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    195
    The most likely next thing to happen is a giant super villain meeting where they agree to go to war. And the superheroes also going to war, with indeterminate levels of cooperation. What happens next depends on stuff. Is dragon at least Sivana level in hacking, if so she can probably at least dump the dimensional storage so he is left with just the lantern, ring, and power armor. Then, since yellow light functions as light, grues power can probably shut down all of the constructs. That leaves risk of power armor and possibly LP getting out of the darkness long enough to pot shot grue. So even in near future, LP has serious risk. In long term, Leviathan or one of the other endbringers are going to attack pretty much immediately, and LP doesn't have a real way to kill the endbringers. Simurph word of God the justice league all together won't win the war against her, and without Martian manhunted he doesn't have even a chance. Leviathan is a faster than Superman speedster who can just run away and tsunami until victory if it looks like LP has the advantage. Behemoth auto wins if he gets in 30 ft and is immune to pretty much everything in a heads on confrontation. Which isn't saying anything about what happens if Paul actually kills one of them, which would be another three being created which use his abilities but better.
     
Loading...