With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[CrazyNoVa]

In my story, Thundercats Earth is a necropolis. Third Earth is way across the galaxy.

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Sorry, I meant the Thundercats universe where Lord Protector got stranded in.

 

[Vaermina]

On his own, yes. But with others, not so much. I agree that Paul might not be able to defeat Scion or the Endbringers by himself, but he would still be much more useful or versatile in a fight than any of the villains he's killed.

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His versatility doesn't matter unless it can grant him the exact same capabilities as the villains he's killed.

And it can't.

 

[Darko]

Endbringers/Scion are beyond a Lantern's ability to fight.

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And?

They're beyond the ability of most people in the setting to fight.

That doesn't mean that he can't be useful in helping people by evacuating civilians or bringing heroes on the scene much more quickly than anything else.

And Lanterns can fight the Entities and Endbringers, because they've done some truly bullshit things in various settings.

I want to point out here that the vast vast majority of settings with reincarnation tend towards the Sailor Moon end of the spectrum instead of The Mummy one.

Meaning this is just him insisting that the universe should run on his personal logic instead of him acting in a measured and sensible manner

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Or he doesn't wanna risk because he's freaked out and thinks it may not be worth it.

His versatility doesn't matter unless it can grant him the exact same capabilities as the villains he's killed.

And it can't.

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Yeah, it's not like a power ring can't create giant monsters like Lung or create spikes like Kaiser.

Oh wait, yes it can.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

His versatility doesn't matter unless it can grant him the exact same capabilities as the villains he's killed.

And it can't.

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Yes, it can. Power Rings are more than capable of doing those and then some. The abilities of villains like Lung or Kaiser can easily be replicated by a Power Ring. Hell, in Kaiser's case, I'd argue that Power Rings are even better, because they can transform and manipulate matter far better than he can.

 

[Vaermina]

Yes, it can. Power Rings are more than capable of doing those and then some. The abilities of villains like Lung or Kaiser can easily be replicated by a Power Ring. Hell, in Kaiser's case, I'd argue that Power Rings are even better, because they can transform and manipulate matter far better than he can.

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When I say "exactly the same" I mean exactly the same.

Power Rings can duplicate the effect, they can't duplicate the method, and for Worm the method is just as important as the effect.

 

[Darko]

Or even worse, because Widbow once chimed in on a thread about "what if a Superman SI showed up" and part of the explanation was that an alien being around suddenly means Scion has purpose again because safeguarding the cycle from alien interference is the Warrior not Thinkers job to handle and in Paul's case what do you know, there's a while planet right there, guarded by the guy interfering...

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An author on spacebattles once had his YJ SI show up on Earth Bet and Scion took notice.

He then promptly ran as far away as possible.

The reason he did this was because he also took a peek at the DC multiverse and saw the myriad things there that can and will turn him into paste if he gets any ideas.

 

[Lurking Shade]

But he's already not human, isn't he? So wouldn't trying to patch up his humanity just do nothing?

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As in figure out humanity well enough that emulating human emotions is no longer a weak point that lets you bully him to death. Being on my phone made it a bit inconvenient to grab the actual post but it's down below.

His lack of motivation and vulnerable, undeveloped humanity are his biggest weaknesses and the introduction of Superman to the setting counteracts those. Scion as an Eden-less entity as a mirror to a family-less Superman should get the input and reference points he needs to develop more as a human being and figure out how to manage being bullied to death, and having a Superman around gives him a job to do.

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As to what Zion's response would be, Zion doesn't categorise things into heroes and villains. If he killed all hosts in a large geographic area, that might draw his attention. Killing a relatively small number in a relatively small geographic area... Probably not.

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Might've misunderstood your post about his MO, I thought the plan was that he would be moving from location to location clearing out all the villains, because that would eventually be a failure point if it stabilized things too much, cut out intended supports to keep things running, or risked interfering with the end state of almost everyone having powers. But regardless the portal being there will ensure Zion's attention, dealing with and integrating unexpected variables is basically Zion's entire purpose for being there on the ground. Someone powerful showing up from nowhere especially through a permanent portal? That is getting forced into the cycle FOR SCIENCE!

(Part of Wildbow's comment on a reddit thread about "What if Superman ends up in Earth Bet)

Scion exists to handle unexpected variables along the lines of weapons the people might produce that somehow get past the thinker, shard interactions that scale beyond the test, or... aliens from another world. Yeah, Scion exists specifically to combat and manage forces like Superman. In the medium and even the long term, dropping a Superman into the picture means that Scion has a reason to exist, one that goes to his core functioning, core purpose, where the lack thereof is his biggest weakness. Superman as an unknown variable is a valuable variable, and any attempts to get home may be forestalled - Tinker makes a gate, uses Superman's signatures or whatever to key a way home, and Scion shows up to Still it.

Depending, they may ultimately fight (and a less dejected Scion with a purpose reinforced by thousands of cycles is no slouch), or Scion may employ other mechanisms, using the broader cycle. Having Superman trigger* and getting into his head & biology is definitely in the cards (especially when Supes is a family man that's potentially gone months or years without his family), and Scion as a trusted force calling Superman an Endbringer or going on the hard offense vs. Superman could in itself leave Superman with very few people willing to work with him. The trigger works if Scion needs that measure of control to manage this very powerful alien that's stampeding around the broader experiment, as is drawing more on the forces of the setting, like actively using the shard network with a hand on the rudder.

But in the end, Scion wants the cycle to continue and escalate, he wants to turn Superman into a caged beast that can contribute to the experiment, and he's equipped pretty much as a guard/management feature against superman isekais, with a fair few tools to handle even someone as strong as Superman. Invincibility penetrating shots (if he even deigns to shoot and doesn't just radiate that damaging influence in every direction, disintegrating any cover), back-end tools with the shard network, ability to step into other dimensions.

So Gold Morning doesn't happen because Scion doesn't throw a tantrum. His lack of motivation and vulnerable, undeveloped humanity are his biggest weaknesses and the introduction of Superman to the setting counteracts those. Scion as an Eden-less entity as a mirror to a family-less Superman should get the input and reference points he needs to develop more as a human being and figure out how to manage being bullied to death, and having a Superman around gives him a job to do.

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* Power doesn't matter as much as the fact that Scion is basically taking one part of his extended alien mass in another dimension and reaching into Superman's skull to have some leverage over his head. Stick him with more drawbacks than powers, send him down a path that has him as a contributor to the cycle, not an obstacle.

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[Steelplaza]

Entities and Endbringers

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villains like Lung or Kaiser

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for Worm

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Wildbow's comment

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I've been trying to hold my tongue, I've been trying real hard, but what the fuck people?!

You're going on about a setting that hasn't appeared in this story for years! To hell with Worm, to hell with Worm canon, to hell with Wildbow, and to hell with every character in that stupid web serial.

Come on, don't you have anything to say about the story currently in progress? You can even talk about Sailor Moon if you want; at least that's relevant since Endymion is going to be a continuing character for a while.

 

[boo600]

As in figure out humanity well enough that emulating human emotions is no longer a weak point that lets you bully him to death. Being on my phone made it a bit inconvenient to grab the actual post but it's down below.





Might've misunderstood your post about his MO, I thought the plan was that he would be moving from location to location clearing out all the villains, because that would eventually be a failure point if it stabilized things too much, cut out intended supports to keep things running, or risked interfering with the end state of almost everyone having powers. But regardless the portal being there will ensure Zion's attention, dealing with and integrating unexpected variables is basically Zion's entire purpose for being there on the ground. Someone powerful showing up from nowhere especially through a permanent portal? That is getting forced into the cycle FOR SCIENCE!

(Part of Wildbow's comment on a reddit thread about "What if Superman ends up in Earth Bet)

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The full quote, to be clear. Mostly because of things like the "YJ SI ends up in Worm, and Scion runs away stuff" - a lot of people really hate worm (without having read it) and write hate-mail for it, because they think it's Teh Competition for DC and Marvel.

Spoiler

I'll stress that I don't know enough about Superman continuity to remark too much on the Rebirth version specifically, will just assume comic version with a high baseline strength.

Standard superman could probably drive Leviathan into submission. Maybe not kill, and hurling Leviathan is harder than one might imagine with the water echo materializing matter between the grip and the giant, variably hyperdense scaled beast, but for all intents and purposes the end result is the same: the fight might go worse initially, especially if Superman tries frost breath, but Leviathan is down and out, Brockton Bay doesn't take a fraction of the damage it did in-story.

And, as happened in-story, Scion is liable to show up further into the fight. Instead of delivering a look of disgust to Eidolon, he gives a great deal of attention to Superman.

Short term consequence: Brockton Bay is saved.

Medium-term consequence: the shard network begins producing Endbringers that Superman can't stop that Eidolon could. Superman is forced to work with the top heroes to understand what's going on, there's mass panic, and things might even go more smoothly, in the medium run. Eidolon gets to be more of a hero with worthy opponents (but the power drain starts accelerating). This may lean to Eidolon being forced to tap into the real power source and start draining capes. Cue some back and forth on morality and whether it's right, even when Eidolon limits himself to taking the lives and power reserves of capes who are already dying (maybe at first when they've given consent in advance, but throw in edge cases and Superman believing he can rescue people, and ramping pressure from the new Endbringers...), cue a few Eidolon vs. Superman conflicts. Eidolon's powers give him the strength he needs to match and even beat Superman - a worthy opponent without needing an Endbringer.

I do know that Rebirth Superman supposedly heavily emphasizes family and being a leader. Being cut off from Lois and his kids while also facing a world that's in pretty dire straits may strain and test him a lot on levels that have nothing to do with super strength.

Cauldron is liable to intervene on some level, if Superman is honest about his origins, and try to tap him as a resource, but he's also a reporter and in trying to figure everything out, he might start to zero in on the fact that Cauldron is sketchy.

Jack Slash gets stomped, Siberian gets found out and stopped, the worst major players get handled.

Long term consequences: Gold Morning doesn't happen in 2013.

At the end of the day, the very reason the entities have a Warrior and a Thinker is that they exist to forestall unknown factors. In the absence of the Thinker Eden, Cauldron did arise and while their end goals are different their ultimate functionality is very similar to Eden.

Eden exists to forestall those scenarios where people might figure out what's going on, band together, and work around the problem (as happened in story, more or less). We see her doing this in the alternate history where Eden is around. She also does the finer tuning of processes and adjusting of experiment/shard-host interactions as required to manage everything.

Scion exists to handle unexpected variables along the lines of weapons the people might produce that somehow get past the thinker, shard interactions that scale beyond the test, or... aliens from another world. Yeah, Scion exists specifically to combat and manage forces like Superman. In the medium and even the long term, dropping a Superman into the picture means that Scion has a reason to exist, one that goes to his core functioning, core purpose, where the lack thereof is his biggest weakness. Superman as an unknown variable is a valuable variable, and any attempts to get home may be forestalled - Tinker makes a gate, uses Superman's signatures or whatever to key a way home, and Scion shows up to Still it.

Depending, they may ultimately fight (and a less dejected Scion with a purpose reinforced by thousands of cycles is no slouch), or Scion may employ other mechanisms, using the broader cycle. Having Superman trigger and getting into his head & biology is definitely in the cards (especially when Supes is a family man that's potentially gone months or years without his family), and Scion as a trusted force calling Superman an Endbringer or going on the hard offense vs. Superman could in itself leave Superman with very few people willing to work with him. The trigger works if Scion needs that measure of control to manage this very powerful alien that's stampeding around the broader experiment, as is drawing more on the forces of the setting, like actively using the shard network with a hand on the rudder.

But in the end, Scion wants the cycle to continue and escalate, he wants to turn Superman into a caged beast that can contribute to the experiment, and he's equipped pretty much as a guard/management feature against superman isekais, with a fair few tools to handle even someone as strong as Superman. Invincibility penetrating shots (if he even deigns to shoot and doesn't just radiate that damaging influence in every direction, disintegrating any cover), back-end tools with the shard network, ability to step into other dimensions.

So Gold Morning doesn't happen because Scion doesn't throw a tantrum. His lack of motivation and vulnerable, undeveloped humanity are his biggest weaknesses and the introduction of Superman to the setting counteracts those. Scion as an Eden-less entity as a mirror to a family-less Superman should get the input and reference points he needs to develop more as a human being and figure out how to manage being bullied to death, and having a Superman around gives him a job to do.

Even being super generous to Superman, I think it'd be unfair to give him the win vs. Scion, given what Scion is. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it's not a test of strength. It's a test of Superman being able to come to grips with the setting, Cauldron, getting past the various obstacles and come to terms with the morally grey and political aspects of the setting (Dragon's fetus pilots, seen with X-ray vision, the PRT as a managing force). At this point, though, you run aground on the 'narratively satisfying for a superman story' part and the fact that even with all that Scion is supposed to be able to handle superman isekais, even without the thinker.

Except if it's a comic. Then there's a solid chance the writers change at the midpoint or the last leg of the story, key character elements like Scion being what he is get thrown out the window, we get a rushed resolution, something about the entities being responsible for Krypton exploding, Superman gets angry, kills Scion, goes home, vaguely unsatisfying ending.

(Fuck, I'm still so frustrated over that happening with some of my favorite comic runs.)

A big part of Worm's value is that it's a superhero story with A) A planned ending, and B) One writer. And it's written with a great deal of love for superhero media, and a great deal of hatred for the One More Day/Captain Marvel impregnated by her rapist with her rapist before leaving with her rapist/DC equivalent bullshit that keeps falling out of the gaping bile sacks of some of the writers there.

Kind of like WTR.

Spoiler

In any case, Paul (or any other lantern) would rapidly get Scion's attention, especially if he showed up to an Endbringer fight, simply because a lot of the powers the shards have come from aliens they've eaten. There's a tinker who works with superfluids, including ones that warp gravity, that comes from a race of crabs whose biology did that stuff.

And the entities know, and assume, that powers outside their control can and will be a threat to both them and the cycle.

Now, full-on mainline DC, where Superman punches through time and Hal Jordan can throw planets through the aether and just resist omnipotent beings wiping him from reality with a thought because muh WillPoWaH? Yeah, Scion loses a direct fight there no question. The ones that just fire beams of planet-destroying force? Probably lose, just because a locked-in Scion starts using PtV and social shards - something DC tends to lack equivalents to - and just gets them on his side, or to give him their ring/energy, etc, in a very Hellfire Club + Jean Gray kind of way, but with the corrupter in question legitimately having power.

Humans are the easiest part of cybersecurity to hack, unfortunately, and most of the heroes in DC are kind of dumb a lot of the time to preserve Teh Plot whilst endlessly stacking new powers on their pecs.

As for canon YJ... yeah, no, Scion actually can stomp in raw power, much less hax. He's faster than anyone but the Flash, and the Flash in canon YJ is... extremely unimpressive for someone who can supposedly move at light speed. Add in Stilling, used wisely - and Scion when he's not playing around is the Warrior, after all - and a simple omnidirectional radiance takes out the entire league, adapting to their defenses if necessary. Much less PtV.

This isn't a takedown of the YJ JL; it's kind of like throwing them up agaisnt Doctor Manhattan, but motivated. A spite match, and one that says nothign about their character, or how well they're written. Just powerscaling, and oh no, the low power setting lost against the cosmic character. Shock. Shock I say! Much calcs!

As for WTR... if Paragon wandered into that world, Scion would probably have to bust out PtV, and the tattoos would mean it would be expensive (though given the many redundancies in PtV specifically in how it gathers information, it would very much still work). If he went Ophidian Avatar, and avoided having a physical body as a weakness via transubstantiation, then a direct fight could bode poorly for Scion (though given the scale of fights Paul has struggled with against the Reach, Ophidipaul is definitely below the full Warrior Entity... who conveniently only exists in the space between Galaxies, before they crash onto a planet. Oh, well) It depends on how well PtV and Stilling would allow Scion to hurt the Ophidian, and would definitely involve some sort of hostage-equivalent or other emotional manipulation via PtV to prevent Paul from just chilling in the Honden or heading to another planet, which is something Scion currently can't do.

Or Scion would hide, start actively studying Earth's schizotech and Source connection (while dearly missing Eden, who specialized in this) before attacking anyone who could reveal him moments before they stumble onto him and killing them with PtV precog. Depending on how far his head is lodged up his ass; again, the entities like to steal the powers/tech of anyone they find. He's absolutely go gaga for the Garrick Formula and power rings, just as energy sources and physics bypasses to study. And barring storytelling, and Narrative, and giving him Eden outright, the twin entities would probably win and eat YJ Earth, just like the Reach did - at least until the Demons Three burst free and go hog-wild.

Now, given that the author still hasn't read Worm, and likely isn't going to have time to, I declare Worm to be Discussed. All the powerscaling has been done, in all the relevant scenarios. Everyone has been given the Face they deserve, while also being achknowledged as beatable in the circumstances they'd lose in. There's vagueness, so everyone can presume a grey area is just absolute victory for their favorites. We're done. Go home. Be with your families. (And so on)

 

[CrazyNoVa]

When I say "exactly the same" I mean exactly the same.

Power Rings can duplicate the effect, they can't duplicate the method, and for Worm the method is just as important as the effect.

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Care to elaborate? Why is the method just as important if the result is the same?

As in figure out humanity well enough that emulating human emotions is no longer a weak point that lets you bully him to death. Being on my phone made it a bit inconvenient to grab the actual post but it's down below.

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If Scion ends up becoming more sane, and less inhumane, isn't that a good thing, though? It means he might not go crazy in the same way he did in canon. He might even be glad at finding a possible solution for the heat-death of the universe if he regains his formerly lost sanity.
.

 

[Ardy]

In my story, Thundercats Earth is a necropolis. Third Earth is way across the galaxy.

Lord Protector sees 'Scion' in the same way as most people on Earth Bet do; a pro-social Ash Beast, wandering around the place doing sporadic good deeds without rhyme or reason. If he takes him into account at all it's to consider if he could help straighten his mind out.

As to what Zion's response would be, Zion doesn't categorise things into heroes and villains. If he killed all hosts in a large geographic area, that might draw his attention. Killing a relatively small number in a relatively small geographic area... Probably not.

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Please Zoat, stop arguing worm! You have no idea what you're talking about and more and more irrelevant arguments are starting because you haven't read the book and the wiki/fics are shit at keeping things even remotely canon

 

[Zig]

So to try to get this on a completely different tangent, would an SI in Heroes recharge off of the solar eclipse?

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Please Zoat, stop arguing worm! You have no idea what you're talking about and more and more irrelevant arguments are starting because you haven't read the book and the wiki/fics are shit at keeping things even remotely canon

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Oh, yeah? Tell you what: we'll stop arguing Worm when you all start actually making sense about Worm. If we have no idea what we're talking about, then obviously neither do ANY of you either, because even the people who disagree with Zoat can't seem to make up their minds about anything at all. Besides, half the time when we try to ask clarification for why you all think Zoat is wrong, you all either refuse to elaborate, or you keep giving us nonsensical arguments for why Yellow Lantern Paul is seemingly in the wrong for intervening on Earth-Bet (not to mention the fact that you all conveniently ignore the fact that he can't just leave Earth-Bet alone, because there's a constantly active portal that links it to his world that he can't close).

You all keep acting as if Lord Protector's presence will somehow make things worse for Earth-Bet, but then you all keep contradicting yourselves by going on and on about how craptastic and grimdark Earth-Bet is, to the point that the idea that Paul could somehow make things worse there is really stupid, because if Earth-Bet is such a crappy world that's fated to be screwed no matter what, then Paul couldn't possibly make it worse even if he deliberately tried to.

 

[Prince Charon]

You all keep acting as if Lord Protector's presence will somehow make things worse for Earth-Bet, but then you all keep contradicting yourselves by going on and on about how craptastic and grimdark Earth-Bet is, to the point that the idea that Paul could somehow make things worse there is really stupid, because if Earth-Bet is such a crappy world that's fated to be screwed no matter what, then Paul couldn't possibly make it worse even if he deliberately tried to.

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The short version AFAICT is that Wildbow basically declared (not sure of the exact words, but it was one or more WoG posts that I'm not sure where they are) that the horrible way things went in canon was the best result possible in the setting, and any change would make it worse; people who don't go for 'death of the author' are just following his lead with roughly the same or worse coherence.

 

[Deadring]

Oh, yeah? Tell you what: we'll stop arguing Worm when you all start actually making sense about Worm. If we have no idea what we're talking about, then obviously neither do ANY of you either, because even the people who disagree with Zoat can't seem to make up their minds about anything at all. Besides, half the time when we try to ask clarification for why you all think Zoat is wrong, you all either refuse to elaborate, or you keep giving us nonsensical arguments for why Yellow Lantern Paul is seemingly in the wrong for intervening on Earth-Bet (not to mention the fact that you all conveniently ignore the fact that he can't just leave Earth-Bet alone, because there's a constantly active portal that links it to his world that he can't close).

You all keep acting as if Lord Protector's presence will somehow make things worse for Earth-Bet, but then you all keep contradicting yourselves by going on and on about how craptastic and grimdark Earth-Bet is, to the point that the idea that Paul could somehow make things worse there is really stupid, because if Earth-Bet is such a crappy world that's fated to be screwed no matter what, then Paul couldn't possibly make it worse even if he deliberately tried to.

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I'll throw in my two cents to say I don't think Lord Protector could meaningfully make Earth Bet worse. Sure, he killed that guy who can't actually be killed, but that's not a huge deal, someone else will get the power and he wasn't necessary anyway. The thing is, that Paul doesn't necessarily know all the stuff about Scion and the network and the alien experimentation, so when he busts in and starts doing Paul stuff, that makes him seem like a real person. These people seem to want a story where Paul shows up and disassembles all the bad guys without skipping a beat, and he didn't do that already, so he's not gonna do it at all. He's gotta poke around, see what works, see what breaks, and if he gets his whole planet turned to an expanding cloud of slowly cooling plasma, them's the breaks. They killed Scion with a very specific set of rube-goldberg-ass events, and people are scared Paul will destabilize the execution, but as others have mentioned, it didn't happen by chance. It was assembled on purpose by a couple of very powerful actors, and he'd make their job easier if anything. They're much too powerful to be derailed by one guy, even if that guy's a lantern guy.

As mentioned, he can't just ignore the big portal, and the portal means he's already in the firing line of the big GM, so he'd better get in there and see what's up before it's too late to do anything but hold on tight and pray.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

The short version AFAICT is that Wildbow basically declared (not sure of the exact words, but it was one or more WoG posts that I'm not sure where they are) that the horrible way things went in canon was the best result possible in the setting, and any change would make it worse; people who don't go for 'death of the author' are just following his lead with roughly the same or worse coherence.

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Yeah, but you forget: that Wildbow statement only applies to the base Worm story, which doesn't take Paul into account for obvious reasons. After all, why would you take into account a character that's not supposed to exist in your story? But when you introduce a game changer like a Power Ring wielder into the mix, then the timeline and final result of the story will obviously be very, VERY different. So different in fact that was once the best result possible is no longer the best result possible.

They killed Scion with a very specific set of rube-goldberg-ass events, and people are scared Paul will destabilize the execution, but as others have mentioned, it didn't happen by chance. It was assembled on purpose by a couple of very powerful actors, and he'd make their job easier if anything. They're much too powerful to be derailed by one guy, even if that guy's a lantern guy.

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My point exactly! People keep acting as if Paul could somehow make things worse, but what they forget is that even though Paul is a game-changer, there are still people on all sides who could easily adjust their plans to take him into account, meaning that the long-game chain of events will likely still lead to Scion's downfall even with Paul's actions.

 

[Vaermina]

My point exactly! People keep acting as if Paul could somehow make things worse, but what they forget is that even though Paul is a game-changer, there are still people on all sides who could easily adjust their plans to take him into account, meaning that the long-game chain of events will likely still lead to Scion's downfall even with Paul's actions.

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There was a wildbow quote a few posts up explaining about why a being like Paul showing up would be bad thing.

Long story short, Scion exists to counter beings like Power Ring Paul, and the simple fact that he showed up and started acting would be enough to end any chance of Scion's downfall.

 

[Mr Zoat]

20th August 2013
06:13 GMT -7

A simple ring scan shows me that I shouldn't expect the majority of my children to be awake for while. Lynne has.. mostly acquired my habits, but she's going through puberty and I'm not.

Elise takes three plates from the cupboard and puts them on the work surface next to me, while Misa chops spring onions. Usually, 'helping' in this sort of way is something that I'd invite my younger children to do, but after Misa actually asked if she could help I've been including everyone else as well.

Sunset isn't quite so enthusiastic. She mostly sits in her chair and enchants things to move.

While Misa chops and the lard in the square omelette frying pan starts to spit, I crack a tenth egg into the mixing bowl. Construct whisk, because chopsticks are acceptable only when your county doesn't have enough metal for proper cutlery, and blend it well. And while that's happening, grab…

"I got it!"

Let Elise grate the carrot…

Teenagers aren't meant to be this helpful, are they? Misa's already done the spring onions without destroying the chopping board, and she's moved on to dicing the pork cutlet.

Alright then. Dash of salt, dash of pepper, and into the weird Japanese cuboid saucepan… Half the mixture goes. My Dad would love a saucepan like this; easy stacking and tessellating compared to the round versions. And… Spatula …

"So, ah…" Elise smiles at Misa. "Who were those guys, anyway?"

"Very bad people."

"Yeah, but… I mean, specifically."

Misa glances at me as I perform the first flip, and then again, shoving what will become the innermost part of the omelette over to one edge and pouring in another layer of egg. I then step to the side and she scrapes in the pork cubes.

"Master…" A slightly nervous look at me before she turns back to the significantly less intimidating Elise. "The Reach send out spies as merchants, so they can learn about the places they want to conquer. And then they start putting mind control chemicals in the water, or in the air, or do whatever they need to so they can control their minds and take over without fighting."

"So those were spies?"

Misa nods, and risks another glance at me as I keep my face in an expression of beneficent approval. "I just had to capture one, and then the g-gnomes could read their minds and learn about a lot of their operations."

"Hm." Another omelette flip and pour, and Misa adds the spring onion. "I'm a little surprised that they don't have anti-telepath measures prepared."

"I am very fast, Master."

I nod. "That you are. So you can get a g-gnome in position before they can activate a safeguard."

"I can do that. And I can just knock the Reach spies unconscious."

"So the defence has to be toggles by conscious intent?"

"I did not find a defence, Master. If they felt what was happening, they triggered a machine in their brain which scrambled their thoughts."

I nod as Elise adds the grated carrot. "How long did it take them to recover from that?"

"They did not, Master. They died because their brains did not work."

"Oh, that kind of-." I nod. "Well done for working out a way around it. Elise, could you get the sauce-?" She's already gotten the sauce bottles. "Thank you. So, ah… How far did you get?"

One last turn… And move it to serving plate.

Misa hesitates, so I gesture to the omelette with the knife. "One slice or two?"

"I… Would like three, please."

"Misa, did you skip dinner?"

"Um. No." I cut three slices, transfer them to a plate and hold it out to her. She takes hold of it but I pointedly don't let go, looking at her for an answer. "But I didn't sleep last night. And I did a lot of running."

I let go of the plate, and she shamefacedly takes it to the dining table.

"Misa, just because you can stay active for longer without rest, that doesn't-" I move the next slice onto a new plate and then look at Elise, pointing to the rest of the omelette with my knife. "-mean that it's actually healthy for you to do so." Elise nods, so I add a second slice and then pass the plate to her. Now for my bit. That is to say, all of the rest. "And it's going to mess up your circadian rhythms."

"YesMaster."

I smile as sit down opposite her, me-sized knife and fork in hand. "So how many planets do you think you saved?"

"Ah… I'm not sure that I saved planets, but there are now seventy worlds that had Reach spies on them that don't have Reach spies on them any more."

I nod approvingly. "Good work, good work. Write up-. After breakfast and a nap, write up a report for Vril Dox. He'll want to know how far they've spread."

She nods, her mouth full.

"Okay, good work. We might be able to get a necromancer to take a look at the heads, but if they'll all had a full telepathic trawl I suppose there isn't any point."

Elise looks curious. "Would it work on the ones who scrambled their brains first?"

I nod. "It should… If it works at all. They're not a magical species, so it's not reliable. But it's worth trying."

"Master? Is there something else that you want me to do?"

"Yes." She perks up slightly. "Finish your breakfast."

She slumps a little, but she hardens her resolve and focuses on her plate.

Elise puts her cutlery down, having already finished. "Misa? Are you at a loose end?" Misa's eyes move to me, and then back to her food. "'cause I wouldn't mind you helping with Kobra cultists in Pakistan. It's overkill, but they've got it coming."

"I have to nap."

Loco parentis time. "Misa, is something wrong?"

She looks like she's about to speak, and then stops. And starts again, and then stops again. Then she slumps against the table. "You didn't come to my concert."

"Not the.. first night, no. I talked it over with your agent and we agreed it would be too disruptive. I was planning on going in a couple of days, once the journalists were finished with their reviews."

She perks up slightly. "Oh."

"Was that all? Were you worried I'd forgotten about you?" I smile, shaking my head. "Because I assure you, I hadn't."

She shifts awkwardly in her seat.

"I'm sorry I didn't tell you I'd be going to a later concert, I didn't think that you'd notice-."

She glares at me. "I always notice you, Master!"

"… Right, lesson learned." Okay, should have handled that better… How should I..? Ah. "Controller Hinon said that she'd found a planet for me. How about both of you come and assess it with me?" I turn to Elise. "You could talk to your father about that, couldn't you?"

"Yeah, I could. That works. Thanks, Grayven."

"You're welcome. Anyone want seconds?"

 

[Breadnaught]

She looks like she's about to speak, and then stops. And starts again, and then stops again. Then she slumps against the table. "You didn't come to my concert."

"Not the.. first night, no. I talked it over with your agent and we agreed it would be too disruptive. I was planning on going in a couple of days, once the journalists were finished with their reviews."

She perks up slightly. "Oh."

Click to shrink...

So she's transitioning from model to singer/idol?

Aww, and she thought he was ignoring her, so went extra hard on some Reachers to prove herself and get his attention. Like a murdercat leaving dead mice for you, to show their love. Murderously adorable. Murdorable.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

There was a wildbow quote a few posts up explaining about why a being like Paul showing up would be bad thing.

Long story short, Scion exists to counter beings like Power Ring Paul, and the simple fact that he showed up and started acting would be enough to end any chance of Scion's downfall.

Click to shrink...

The former is true, but the latter is a load of nonsense. I may not be familiar with Worm lore, but I know for a fact that Scion was defeated by exploiting his mental instability and lack of emotional understanding, causing him to voluntarily stop using his defenses and succumb to depression. Which in turn indicates that he was already mentally ill all along, and Paul's presence would not change that, nor would it remove that weakness. Sure, the presence of someone like Paul might give him a purpose in life again, but all that would do is risk making him saner and less omnicidal, maybe even make him somewhat like he was before he went mad with existential ennui, not suddenly magically cure him of all his mental health issues.

 

[Frozen20XX]

"Okay, good work. We might be able to get a necromancer to take a look at the heads, but if they'll all had a full telepathic trawl I suppose there isn't any point."

Click to shrink...

Unrelated, but this just reminded me that Grayven has a severed head construct lantern.

 

[Darko]

Elise takes three plates from the cupboard and puts them on the work surface next to me, while Misa chops spring onions. Usually, 'helping' in this sort of way is something that I'd invite my younger children to do, but after Misa actually asked if she could help I've been including everyone else as well.

Sunset isn't quite so enthusiastic. She mostly sits in her chair and enchants things to move.

While Misa chops and the lard in the square omelette frying pan starts to spit, I crack a tenth egg into the mixing bowl. Construct whisk, because chopsticks acceptable only when your county doesn't have enough metal for proper cutlery, and blend it well. And while that's happening, grab…

"I got it!"

Let Elise grate the carrot…

Teenagers aren't meant to be this helpful, are they? Misa's already done the spring onions without destroying the chopping board, and she's moved on to dicing the pork cutlet.

Alright then. Dash of salt, dash of pepper, and into the weird Japanese cuboid saucepan… Half the mixture goes. My Dad would love a saucepan like this; easy stacking and tessellating compared to the round versions. And… Spatula

Click to shrink...

Heh, this reminded of cooking scenes in anime like Emiya Family.

"Hm." Another omelette flip and pour, and Misa adds the spring onion. "I'm a little surprised that they don't have anti-telepath measures prepared."

"I am very fast, Master

Click to shrink...

And if they did they may not use them that much because there aren't that many telepaths.

n, I didn't think that you'd notice-."

She glares at me. "I always notice you, Master

Click to shrink...

Kinda difficult not to.

 

[BR549]

Construct whisk, because chopsticks acceptable only when

Click to shrink...

'chopsticks are acceptable'

me-sized knife and fort in hand.

Click to shrink...

'fork'

"Misa? Are you at a lose end?"

Click to shrink...

'loose'

"I'm sorry I didn't tell you I'd be going to a later concern,

Click to shrink...

'concert'

 

[Mr Zoat]

Might've misunderstood your post about his MO, I thought the plan was that he would be moving from location to location clearing out all the villains, because that would eventually be a failure point if it stabilized things too much, cut out intended supports to keep things running, or risked interfering with the end state of almost everyone having powers.

Click to shrink...

There are about 19000 cities in the United States of America. Assuming that Lord Protector does one a week, how many centuries would it take him to clear all of them? The answer is 4.

But regardless the portal being there will ensure Zion's attention, dealing with and integrating unexpected variables is basically Zion's entire purpose for being there on the ground. Someone powerful showing up from nowhere especially through a permanent portal? That is getting forced into the cycle FOR SCIENCE!

Click to shrink...

Indeed. If Zion paid attention and actually looked at Lord Protector, things would become rather uncomfortable.

I've been trying to hold my tongue, I've been trying real hard, but what the fuck people?!

You're going on about a setting that hasn't appeared in this story for years! To hell with Worm, to hell with Worm canon, to hell with Wildbow, and to hell with every character in that stupid web serial.

Come on, don't you have anything to say about the story currently in progress? You can even talk about Sailor Moon if you want; at least that's relevant since Endymion is going to be a continuing character for a while.

Click to shrink...

I was kinda thinking that.

Please Zoat, stop arguing worm! You have no idea what you're talking about and more and more irrelevant arguments are starting because you haven't read the book and the wiki/fics are shit at keeping things even remotely canon

Click to shrink...

You don't have to read it. I won't be offended. I've already said that I'm not going back to Worm, though I admit it being all anyone seems to want to talk about at the moment is making me reconsider.

So to try to get this on a completely different tangent, would an SI in Heroes recharge off of the solar eclipse?

Click to shrink...

I only watched series 1, but I can't think of any way that would work.

'chopsticks are acceptable'
'fork'
'loose'
'concert'

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

20th August 2013
06:13 GMT -7

A simple ring scan shows me that I shouldn't expect the majority of my children to be awake for while. Lynne has.. mostly acquired my habits, but she's going through puberty and I'm not.

Click to shrink...

And late nights or early mornings are not the best thing for growing teenagers, new god or not. I bet some of them aren't really morning people, and like their lie-ins.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Elise takes three plates from the cupboard and puts them on the work surface next to me, while Misa chops spring onions. Usually, 'helping' in this sort of way is something that I'd invite my younger children to do, but after Misa actually asked if she could help I've been including everyone else as well.

Click to shrink...

And it makes the work go faster... As long as she can resist the urge to use super-speed.

Sunset isn't quite so enthusiastic. She mostly sits in her chair and enchants things to move.

While Misa chops and the lard in the square omelette frying pan starts to spit, I crack a tenth egg into the mixing bowl. Construct whisk, because chopsticks are acceptable only when your county doesn't have enough metal for proper cutlery, and blend it well. And while that's happening, grab…

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't be surprised if Sunset didn't burn calories using magic anyway. I also suspect the Renegade isn't fond of chopsticks because his hands are quite large, making them trickier to use.

"I got it!"

Let Elise grate the carrot…

Click to shrink...

Hopefully without also dividing the cutting board... Then again, she's in 'off;' mode, so probably doesn't employ her powers unless forced to.

Teenagers aren't meant to be this helpful, are they? Misa's already done the spring onions without destroying the chopping board, and she's moved on to dicing the pork cutlet.

Alright then. Dash of salt, dash of pepper, and into the weird Japanese cuboid saucepan… Half the mixture goes. My Dad would love a saucepan like this; easy stacking and tessellating compared to the round versions. And… Spatula …

Click to shrink...

I suspect it's more that these teenagers are already of a disposition to obey you. And the fact that the Renegade's godly nature probably makes for excellent group coordination.

"So, ah…" Elise smiles at Misa. "Who were those guys, anyway?"

"Very bad people."

Click to shrink...

She's not wrong, per se.

"Yeah, but… I mean, specifically."

Misa glances at me as I perform the first flip, and then again, shoving what will become the innermost part of the omelette over to one edge and pouring in another layer of egg. I then step to the side and she scrapes in the pork cubes.

Click to shrink...

Like a well-oiled machine. Super-reflexes probably also help.

"Master…" A slightly nervous look at me before she turns back to the significantly less intimidating Elise. "The Reach send out spies as merchants, so they can learn about the places they want to conquer. And then they start putting mind control chemicals in the water, or in the air, or do whatever they need to so they can control their minds and take over without fighting."

Click to shrink...

So she went out and... Deleted a large group of them all at once? I can't imagine that will go unnoticed.

"So those were spies?"

Misa nods, and risks another glance at me as I keep my face in an expression of beneficent approval. "I just had to capture one, and then the g-gnomes could read their minds and learn about a lot of their operations."

Click to shrink...

Including who was in command of the one she killed, leading to the one above him, and allowing her to uncover the whole web, as a I expect an individual agent would be quite compartmentalised in the field.

"Hm." Another omelette flip and pour, and Misa adds the spring onion. "I'm a little surprised that they don't have anti-telepath measures prepared."

"I am very fast, Master."

Click to shrink...

Dead before they even felt the wind preceding the blow that killed them, for example.

I nod. "That you are. So you can get a g-gnome in position before they can activate a safeguard."

"I can do that. And I can just knock the Reach spies unconscious."

Click to shrink...

But killing them was easier for you, being a petite Japanese woman not really built to lug a taller alien around...

"So the defence has to be toggles by conscious intent?"

"I did not find a defence, Master. If they felt what was happening, they triggered a machine in their brain which scrambled their thoughts."

Click to shrink...

A panic button, eh? I'm sure Dox would appreciate scans of it, since its activation is probably self-destructive.

I nod as Elise adds the grated carrot. "How long did it take them to recover from that?"

"They did not, Master. They died because their brains did not work."

Click to shrink...

In other words, the 'scrambling' was a lot more literal. And physical. Think grey smoothies...

"Oh, that kind of-." I nod. "Well done for working out a way around it. Elise, could you get the sauce-?" She's already gotten the sauce bottles. "Thank you. So, ah… How far did you get?"

One last turn… And move it to a serving plate.

Click to shrink...

They really do just settle into whatever position he needs them to be in. It's a good thing he's a respectable gentleman. There are definitely New Gods who would abuse that kind of subservience...

Misa hesitates, so I gesture to the omelette with the knife. "One slice or two?"

"I… Would like three, please."

"Misa, did you skip dinner?"

Click to shrink...

Bad idea, even if she doesn't have to rely solely on caloric intake for her superspeed anymore.

"Um. No." I cut three slices, transfer them to a plate and hold it out to her. She takes hold of it but I pointedly don't let go, looking at her for an answer. "But I didn't sleep last night. And I did a lot of running."

I let go of the plate, and she shamefacedly takes it to the dining table.

Click to shrink...

I can feel the disapproving dad look from here.

"Misa, just because you can stay active for longer without rest, that doesn't-" I move the next slice onto a new plate and then look at Elise, pointing to the rest of the omelette with my knife. "-mean that it's actually healthy for you to do so." Elise nods, so I add a second slice and then pass the plate to her. Now for my bit. That is to say, all of the rest. "And it's going to mess up your circadian rhythms."

Click to shrink...

Her New God nature taking over for the normal Garrick Formula speedster fuelling issues, so to speak...

"YesMaster."

I smile as sit down opposite her, me-sized knife and fork in hand. "So how many planets do you think you saved?"

Click to shrink...

Wonder if whatever she says, he'll say 'none'. Because her actions almost certainly will provoke responses from the Reach.

"Ah… I'm not sure that I saved planets, but there are now seventy worlds that had Reach spies on them that don't have Reach spies on them any more."

I nod approvingly. "Good work, good work. Write up-. After breakfast and a nap, write up a report for Vril Dox. He'll want to know how far they've spread."

Click to shrink...

Vexing that he had to specify that, but we know she'd not bother to rest if he didn't tell her to.

She nods, her mouth full.

"Okay, good work. We might be able to get a necromancer to take a look at the heads, but if they'll all had a full telepathic trawl I suppose there isn't any point."

Click to shrink...

Might be interesting comparative analysis.

Elise looks curious. "Would it work on the ones who scrambled their brains first?"

I nod. "It should… If it works at all. They're not a magical species, so it's not reliable. But it's worth trying."

Click to shrink...

See? They might find Reach biology more or less responsive to magic due to their less robust metaphysiques.

"Master? Is there something else that you want me to do?"

"Yes." She perks up slightly. "Finish your breakfast."

She slumps a little, but she hardens her resolve and focuses on her plate.

Click to shrink...

Poor girl. So eager to serve, yet not realising that's not what the Renegade wants from her.

Elise puts her cutlery down, having already finished. "Misa? Are you at a loose end?" Misa's eyes move to me, and then back to her food. "'cause I wouldn't mind you helping with Kobra cultists in Pakistan. It's overkill, but they've got it coming."

"I have to nap."

Click to shrink...

After your nap, of course.

Loco parentis time. "Misa, is something wrong?"

She looks like she's about to speak, and then stops. And starts again, and then stops again. Then she slumps against the table. "You didn't come to my concert."

Click to shrink...

Ah. Now we get to the meat of the issue.

"Not the.. first night, no. I talked it over with your agent and we agreed it would be too disruptive. I was planning on going in a couple of days, once the journalists were finished with their reviews."

She perks up slightly. "Oh."

Click to shrink...

All those dead spies because she felt like he was ignoring her? Hoo-boy. The Renegade's got a bit of work ahead to unfuck this snarl of problems.

"Was that all? Were you worried I'd forgotten about you?" I smile, shaking my head. "Because I assure you, I hadn't."

She shifts awkwardly in her seat.

Click to shrink...

Though the writer might have half-forgotten until the thread reminded him. Never underestimate the reader's curiosity.

"I'm sorry I didn't tell you I'd be going to a later concert, I didn't think that you'd notice-."

She glares at me. "I always notice you, Master!"

Click to shrink...

He's almost eight feet even. Possibly larger. And grey. It'd be hard not to notice him, even with a disguise field - she'd feel his metaphysique due to their connection.

"… Right, lesson learned." Okay, should have handled that better… How should I..? Ah. "Controller Hinon said that she'd found a planet for me. How about both of you come and assess it with me?" I turn to Elise. "You could talk to your father about that, couldn't you?"

Click to shrink...

Ah, the colonisation project? Well, then, they're almost certainly going to run into some form of trouble out there...

"Yeah, I could. That works. Thanks, Grayven."

"You're welcome. Anyone want seconds?"

Click to shrink...

Before the kids wake up and demolish their day's supply of eggs...

Well, good to see her issues were so simple, really. Feeling a bit overlooked because of a perceived loss of interest. Handily, she's about to spend plenty of time with the Renegade now. He's really going to have to work on getting her out of the mindset she's fallen into, judging herself by her 'value' to him. Otherwise, the next cry for attention might be more drastic.

 

[NightmareWarden]

I suppose an idol career can't be managed (entirely) by G-gnomes if you want the connections and creativity that comes from a human talent manager.

I really liked this. The introspection reminds me of some of the therapeutic Luna chapters. I think it's interesting that Misa didn't use her G-nomes or other resources to ask Grayven about attending the concert. You know, when she started feelings lots of ugly things During the concert, I mean.

I hope Misa gains the ability to weaponize her songs. I don't think she'll be able to turn lyrics into scything blades, even though the scythe has definitely become a part of her New God identify, but surely there's something!