With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Handlewithcare]

All of those examples are single cells. This sort of tight integration usually happens very early in a species' evolutionary history. You wouldn't get tightly integrated symbiosis at a macroscopic scale normally in evolution, because by the time you'd get to large multicellular life, they'd already be too specialized to autonomy to integrate cleanly.

Click to shrink...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_man_o'_war

Though the parts of this one are all the same species I think.

 

[Stsword]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_man_o'_war

Though the parts of this one are all the same species I think.

Click to shrink...

They are, according to that wiki page anyway.

A somewhat closer arrangement to that alien would be giant tube worms- They have no digestive system, they are dependent on symbiotic bacteria which provide chemosynthesis. So a life form that has another form of life acting as vital organ substitutes.

 

[Norgarth]

That's not... that unusual. The timeline is about 2011-2012. Even if we go conversative and say OL is around 16, that still leaves a memorable childhood around the early two thousands. While a lot of that stuff was phased out, as a person from a low income family (Poor as fuck in other words) then entertainment can be stretched out for longer.

We still kept our VHS and cassette player/collection until around 2010 or so.

It's not unusual.

Click to shrink...

I took a VCR to our local e-waste recycling centre exactly a week ago.

Click to shrink...

I still have a VCR player (I haven't used it in years, but I have one). Which may work out seeing how I've been cleaning out my junk room, and found a couple boxes of old tapes. I can (maybe) see what's on them.

 

[Tzeentch]

With The Boys series out now, I wonder if we'll see more of Indigo Lantern Paul, whether during his time working for Vought American or long after the Homelander Horror, working to establish a TRULY respectable superhero organization.

Of course, seeing him having lunch and a friendly conversation with Hughie and Annie would be nice.

Come to think of it, Indigo Paul might have been one of the ONLY supers Starlight would have had a positive relationship with, and vice-versa. I can't imagine many of the Vought American Capes and employees appreciating having to actually FEEL compassion for others every time he entered the room.

Lord knows a sociopath like Stillwell probably couldn't stand him!

 

[Steelplaza]

If I could draw a line under the "VCR tapes" debate? Of course there could be endless innocent explanations, and it doesn't prove anything. It's not a "red flag". It is however a "yellow flag". Another minor warning sign that, yes, Paul often talks and recounts bits of his history in a way that would make more sense if he was older than his claimed age. Little clues and cues like that add up.

As for the Alignment, that's some pretty lousy parts to their military and legal system. On the other hand, it's still pretty much in the same league as bad stuff that first world democratic nations on earth do in our military and legal systems. No amazing surprises there.

The mystery itself, eh, it will be what it will be. You know what 'm actually interested in? I'm wondering if resolving his revenge will make Xor unable to continue as an Orange Lantern. He does not really seem to be like a fellow who is usually driven by his desires. His burning need for revenge right now is pretty hot, but once he settles that will he really Want anything the same way? He strikes me as a fellow who preferred to just go with the flow of life and never had any grand ambitions or fierce needs. It would be interesting if Paul learns that for some orange lanterns, resolving old issues harms their ability to use orange light.

 

[Impartial Panic]

With a baseball bat. Wrapped in barbed wire. Set on fire.

Click to shrink...

Lucille has standards.

 

[Coda]

I'm struggling to think of a way for that sort of hybridisation to arise naturally. Half his total mass is technically another creature, including several vital organs.

Click to shrink...

All of those examples are single cells. This sort of tight integration usually happens very early in a species' evolutionary history. You wouldn't get tightly integrated symbiosis at a macroscopic scale normally in evolution, because by the time you'd get to large multicellular life, they'd already be too specialized to autonomy to integrate cleanly.

Click to shrink...

That's not necessarily true. Consider the anglerfish: In some species, the male is independently viable up until the time of mating. At that point, the male attaches to the female and integrates with her physiology. His eyes, fins, and most internal organs (including the brain) atrophy to nothingness or near-nothingness, with the noteworthy exception of those necessary to produce sperm to fertilize the female. He absorbs nutrients directly from the female's bloodstream. Neither fish mounts an immune response to the other.

In light of this, is it really so unbelievable that a plant/animal symbiosis might happen? It seems reasonable enough that an ancestral animal species might depend on an ancestral plant species to the extent that the animal would start carrying the plant around, allowing it to take root in its body. The two would, over generations, co-evolve to be more optimized for such an arrangement. I imagine that the whole thing would start off with the animal initially being a pollinator for the plant, then since that brings the animals into social contact as they spread pollen, they would begin mating and leaving their eggs at the pollination sites.

 

[PDV]

I still have a VCR player (I haven't used it in years, but I have one). Which may work out seeing how I've been cleaning out my junk room, and found a couple boxes of old tapes. I can (maybe) see what's on them.

Click to shrink...

I was 20 in 2011, in a fairly wealthy family, and I don't think we got a DVD player until I was in my teens. And Paul is open about being a few years older than The Team.

 

[Siskulous]

I took a VCR to our local e-waste recycling centre exactly a week ago.

Click to shrink...

There's a VCR sitting on my desk hooked up to a TV capture card now. And I've used it recently. Mind you, I dug it out of storage to convert a VHS that came with a vintage board game I'd bought on EBay and don't actually own any other VHS tapes anymore. My kids managed to make me feel very old that day simply by asking "What's that?"

All of those examples are single cells. This sort of tight integration usually happens very early in a species' evolutionary history. You wouldn't get tightly integrated symbiosis at a macroscopic scale normally in evolution, because by the time you'd get to large multicellular life, they'd already be too specialized to autonomy to integrate cleanly.

Click to shrink...

Reading your comment I immediately thought of lichen and man o' wars. Both of which I was beaten to by other comments. There are also tons of examples like this between plants and fungus (basically all vascular plants have some sort of symbiotic fungus that they can't survive without). And not everything native to human guts is single-celled. There are some fungi in there too, and we need all of that stuff in order to survive.

 

[LostPath]

The War Hound concept sounds a bit like the SPARTAN-II Program.

 

[Mr Zoat]

The War Hound concept sounds a bit like the SPARTAN-II Program.

Click to shrink...

Except less brutal, and for a less corrupt government.

 

[Jirachi]

Did Paul check if the indigo corps uses the same comm system (and are therefore contactable)?
I hope Paul and Co are able to get *some* support from other maltusian factions.
Are the controllers letting non-controllers bond with the central power battery?
Hope we get to see more of the planning and starting of the reach war soon...

 

[Mr Zoat]

Did Paul check if the indigo corps uses the same comm system (and are therefore contactable)?

Click to shrink...

Yes. They didn't answer.

I hope we are able to get *some* support from other maltusian factions.

Click to shrink...

Who's 'we'?

Are the controllers letting non-controllers bond with the central power battery?

Click to shrink...

Kalmin asked them to start bonding slaves to it to see how quickly they explode. Hinon vetoed it on the grounds that it wasn't hygienic.

Hope we get to see more of the planning and starting of the reach war soon...

Click to shrink...

The Reach doesn't want to do stand up fights, and would risk getting the Green Lantern Corps involved if they made direct assaults. Dox isn't ready yet.

 

[Jirachi]

Yes. They didn't answer.

Who's 'we'?

Kalmin asked them to start bonding slaves to it to see how quickly they explode. Hinon vetoed it on the grounds that it wasn't hygienic.

The Reach doesn't want to do stand up fights, and would risk getting the Green Lantern Corps involved if they made direct assaults. Dox isn't ready yet.

Click to shrink...

It's an odd affectation I've gotten, to refer to quest protags and such in the first person in votes and discussion. (We is roughly 'the SI' or 'The orange lantern Corps' or 'The steering committee'.)
I mean, yes? I do think there is probably a lot more work to be done regarding getting more involvement from the exotic weapons people, and actually making them a dedicated part of the war effort and part of the steering comittee for the war, becuase the whole point of the steering comittee is that they have on purpose, a shared sense of direction and so on, and if the Controllers working on side projects like Jevek's are going to be 'rogue'...
Also, why was Hinon so shocked about the blue lantern? I mean, wouldn't she have read Paul's mission report about Kalmin, the anti-green corps and such?

 

[BR549]

Except less brutal, and for a less corrupt government.

Click to shrink...

That last bit depends on whether or not you count the Travisstys, I believe.

It's an odd affectation I've gotten, to refer to quest protags and such in the first person in votes and discussion. (We is roughly 'the SI' or 'The orange lantern Corps' or 'The steering committee'.)

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure about QQ specifically, but the general rule (as in, its actually a rule) on most of this "family of boards" is not to use "we" when the thread in question is not a quest.

And...'not a quest'.

 

[moralrelativity]

My kids managed to make me feel very old that day simply by asking "What's that?"

Click to shrink...

I know that pain... I had to get on YouTube to show my kids what it was like to use a rotary dial phone.

 

[Mr Zoat]

6th February
13:22 GMT

"Lanterns." Sub Sector Unifier Creduk Vin turns to face us as we enter his office and brings his fists together at his chest. A novel gesture but the basic idea repeats itself in many humanoid civilisations: my hands are in a place which would make it difficult for me to use a weapon and I'm doing it first to acknowledge that my position is inferior. "What can I do for you?"

The city of Johhonnta has a paramilitary police force. It strikes me as odd. Even in Metropolis -a city which has to occasionally cope with Superman-tier criminals- the Special Crimes Unit are far more heavily armed than a normal SWAT unit but regular police are equipped in the same way as regular police in other cities. And that still-. Well, used to strike me as odd when contrasted with the British police's lack of guns. But here it's like something out of Judge Dredd. Smart rail rifles, plasma blasters and solid all-enveloping armour, including a helmet which covers most of the wearer's face.

Vin is wearing a purple dress uniform with red trim, but even that has armoured inserts. It doesn't.. make sense to me. There are good reasons why civil law enforcement officers don't dress like that outside war zones. Are they facing constant civil insurrection? Did they just finish a major war and need to put their soldiers somewhere until they demob? No, nothing about a major war on the records Canar sent me…

I make the fist gesture back, while Guy just folds his arms across his chest. Which a local man will probably interpret in the same way.

"One moment."

Orange light strobes out from me, deactivating the devices monitoring the interior of the office and setting up holographic screens at the windows. Windows which are armoured, I notice. Since our presence here is official I'm not trying to deceive anyone looking in with a false image, so the holograms simply show closed blinds. Next, I take a rune stone out and wave it around. As expected there's no glow, but it doesn't hurt to be sure. Lastly I take out three anti-eavesdropping pendants, pass one to Guy, put one on myself and offer Vin the last.

He takes it cautiously. "What is it?"

"A tool to prevent anyone overhearing this conversation. If you wouldn't mind putting it on?"

"I've been ordered to cooperate with you, but I'm loyal to the Alignment. Bear that in mind."

He slips the thong over his head and lets it fall to lay against his chest.

"I'd like to talk to you about the Alignment's practice of using child soldiers."

He frowns, his eyes moving to Guy. "The Green Lantern Corps ruled that the practice wasn't objectionable."

"No, th' Green Lantern Corps ruled it wasn't slavery. Ain't th' same thing." Guy lets his environmental shield glow a little brighter. Not combat-brightness, but with the lights in the office dimmed by the blinds it's quite noticeable. "If it'd been slavery, the local Green Lanterns woulda put a stop to it already. I'm here 'cause doin' somethin' about it needs someone a bit higher up t' make a decision."

"You're an.. officer."

"Honor Guard Lantern Guy Gardner."

"And I'm the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps."

I bring my formal robes out of subspace and drape them over my light armour.

"Well-. I.. see why some people might find it objectionable, but why are you talking to me? I have no authority over the practice."

"Pickin' names out of a hat." Guy shrugs. "Wanna find out what a regular Joe thinks of it."

"It… Beats the way we used to handle unowned orphans."

"Oh yeah? What was that then?"

"Medical euthanasia."

Guy's environmental shield grows a little brighter still.

"Yes, I suppose that it does beat that."

"They learn fast, and they are given bodies far stronger than our best powered armour. Ten years of service and they are free citizens. It's not… Nice, perhaps, but it works. They do useful work no one else can and they aren't mist-."

I raise my right hand. "I'm.. going to stop you right there. Your society and mine have very different ideas of what child mistreatment looks like. But… Okay. How the heck do you turn a brain that young into a functioning soldier?"

"I'm.. not an expert on the technology-."

"I'm really more interested in what the average Alignment citizen believes about it."

"It's.. something to do with how they educate them. The programming they give them grants them knowledge and… Loyalty. It makes them honourable. Then… I assume that they do something to induce synaptic pruning… It's perfectly functional. They don't behave like normal children. That would be dangerous."

"Do that t' any regular kids?"

"I think.. it.. used to be used like that. It… Fell out of fashion."

"Okay, so: inexperienced but functionally adult. Plenty of species have fast maturation cycles. How are they treated once they complete their term of service?"

"The same as any other soldier leaving the military. Their training makes them unusually honest and trustworthy. Everyone knows that."

"I suppose if you can do anything to someone's brain, there isn't much point leaving them room to disobey."

"No, it isn't like that. Trying to turn them into bio-robots doesn't work. The machines implant a strong code of honour which includes lionising loyalty to their superiors but they can disobey."

"Loyalty?"

"That's what our government gets out of it. Soldiers who can't-. Well, maybe not can't, but would be very difficult to bribe or suborn."

"If that's true, what happened to Xalitan Xor?"

The response is immediate. The tensing of his muscles, the saccades of his eyes and the changing of his breathing pattern. He clamps down as hard as he can -a giveaway in its own right- but he was stressed.

"That… I wasn't the investigating officer. I was simply called in to apprehend him. His case-"

"Is one which particularly concerns me. You told me that they're programmed to respect authority and be honourable, and he went and murdered his employer's wife."

"That… Was extremely uncharacteristic. If.. I hadn't read the judgement myself…"

I barely need to look inside him at this point. Fear, vague and formless, of sticking his head above the parapet. No face. So an order would go out and he'd wake up dead. I wonder if he's carried out that sort of order before himself? But that doesn't prove a particular conspiracy around Xor, just that the government is a bit on the oppressive side.

"It surprised you to learn that one of the War Hounds would do that?"

"… Yes. It did. If you request the case files, I'm sure that will explain things."

"You didn't read them yourself?"

"I had no need to."

"Are you aware of any similar cases?"

"There are.. instances of violence. When their sense of honour conflicts with the law. That's not a problem while they're in the military, but when they're employed by civilians it can happen."

"And you assume that's what happened to Xor?"

"I haven't really thought about it. It… Would be logical."

I smile. "Then I suppose that we'd better get those files as well."

 

[Ganurath]

Welcome to the Alignment, where we solved Voldemort before he became a problem!

 

[Vaermina]

Orange light strobes out from me, deactivating the devices monitoring the interior of the office and setting up holographic screens at the windows. Windows which are armoured, I notice. Since our presence here is official I'm not trying to deceive anyone looking in with a false image, so the holograms simply show closed blinds. Next, I take a rune stone out and wave it around. As expected there's no glow, but it doesn't hurt to be sure. Lastly I take out three anti-eavesdropping pendants, pass one to Guy, put one on myself and offer Vin the last.

Click to shrink...

What happened to Earth magic not working well off of Earth?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

"Lanterns." Sub Sector Unifier Creduk Vin turns to face us as we enter his office and brings his fists together at his chest. A novel gesture but the basic idea repeats itself in many humanoid civilisations: my hands are in a place which would make it difficult for me to use a weapon and I'm doing it first to acknowledge that my position is inferior. "What can I do for you?"

Click to shrink...

Nice to see some things are consistent across species. Both gestures of greetings and fancy-sounding bureaucratic titles.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Orange light strobes out from me, deactivating the devices monitoring the interior of the office and setting up holographic screens at the windows. Windows which are armoured, I notice. Since our presence here is official I'm not trying to deceive anyone looking in with a false image, so the holograms simply show closed blinds. Next, I take a rune stone out and wave it around. As expected there's no glow, but it doesn't hurt to be sure. Lastly I take out three anti-eavesdropping pendants, pass one to Guy, put one on myself and offer Vin the last.

Click to shrink...

Privacy. Sensible, given the culture.

"No, th' Green Lantern Corps ruled it wasn't slavery. Ain't th' same thing." Guy lets his environmental shield glow a little brighter. Not combat-brightness, but with the lights in the office dimmed by the blinds it's quite noticeable. "If it'd been slavery, the local Green Lanterns woulda put a stop to it already. I'm here 'cause doin' somethin' about it needs someone a bit higher up t' make a decision."

Click to shrink...

Guy doesn't sound likely to give it any good recommendation...

"It… Beats the way we used to handle unowned orphans."

Click to shrink...

And doesn't that word choice say so much about their culture. 'Unowned'...

Guy's environmental shield grows a little brighter still.

Click to shrink...

Definite disapproval.

"They learn fast, and they are given bodies far stronger than our best powered armour. Ten years of service and they are free citizens. It's not… Nice, perhaps, but it works. They do useful work no one else can and they aren't mist-."

Click to shrink...

Ten years...That puts Xor around the twenty-year mark, if he was converted around five years old. Add a couple of years after mustering out...

How the heck do you turn a brain that young into a functioning soldier."

Click to shrink...

Should be a question?

"It's.. something to do with how they educate them. The programming they give them grants them knowledge and… Loyalty. It makes them honourable. Then… I assume that they do something to induce synaptic pruning… It's perfectly functional. They don't behave like normal children. That would be dangerous."

Click to shrink...

I like this less and less, the more I hear. It sounds like Astartes recruitment to some degree.

"Do that t' any regular kids?"

Click to shrink...

Easy...

"I think.. it.. used to be used like that. It… Fell out of fashion."

Click to shrink...

...Never mind, Guy. Go wild.

"No, it isn't like that. Trying to turn them into bio-robots doesn't work. The machines implant a strong code of honour which includes lionising loyalty to their superiors but they can disobey."

Click to shrink...

To avoid following unconscionable or criminal orders, presumably?

"That's what our gets out of it.

Click to shrink...

Missing word?

The response is immediate. The tensing of his muscles, the saccades of his eyes and the changing of his breathing pattern. He clamps down as hard as he can -a giveaway in its own right- but he was stressed.

Click to shrink...

Oh, he's nervous. He knows something...

I barely need to look inside him at this point. Fear, vague and formless, of sticking his head above the parapet. No face. So an order would go out and he'd wake up dead. I wonder if he's carried out that sort of order before himself? But that doesn't prove a particular conspiracy around Xor, just that the government is a bit on the oppressive side.

Click to shrink...

Still very concerning, and suspicious.

"… Yes. It did. If you request the case files, I'm sure that will explain things."

Click to shrink...

Notable pause there. He's very worried.

I smile. "Then I suppose that we'd better get those files as well."[

Click to shrink...

Ah, Diplomancy. Best skillset.

Curiouser and Curiouser... Let's see how deep the rabbit-hole goes, shall we?

 

[Buggy123]

What happened to Earth magic not working well off of Earth?

Click to shrink...

Active magic ≠ passively enchanted object. Think "solar powered" v.s. "battery powered" .

Also, it's probably not all that powerful of a enchantment. Very useful, but it probably only uses a tiny sliver of magical power compared to, say, combat spells.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"No, it isn't like that. Trying to turn them into bio-robots doesn't work. The machines implant a strong code of honour which includes lionising loyalty to their superiors but they can disobey."
To avoid following unconscionable or criminal orders, presumably?

Click to shrink...

Hah! No.

How the heck do you turn a brain that young into a functioning soldier."
Should be a question?
"That's what our gets out of it.
Missing word?

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[helios]

What happened to Earth magic not working well off of Earth?

Click to shrink...

The rune stone literally did nothing. It's entirely possible the pendants don't actually do anything here either and that it's such an ingrained habit that he just does it forgetting he's not on Earth at the moment.

 

[Handlewithcare]

There is a lot to unpack here.

The Alignment is oppressive, militaristic and paranoid, going by their police equipment, yet produce super soldiers who are "honourable" instead of "loyal".

This Vin is terrified of questioning Judgements but sees no problem with talking eith Lanterns about Alignment internal issues, he fears no repercussions from that.

Meaning the Alignment fears the Lanterns enough to order their people to cooperate with them. Or they genuinely think they have nothing to hide.

 

[Buggy123]

Huh. Now that I see it described in detail, I don't actually find this practice all that objectionable.

I mean, ideally, they wouldn't be making soldiers, and they really ought to include a little variety instead of just "honor, honor, and more honor.". And they might be taking in children at too late of a age, to the point where it's questionable whether it's "technologically assisted childrearing" or "growing a new person by wiping/brainwashing a pre-existing person".

But at the core of it, they're using technology to grow new people, who are, sane, competent, and happy. Genetics and childhood often forgets a few of those key features; and I'm not even going start on the sorts of improvements you can put in while you're at it.



The fact that they're using this versatile technology to make soldiers is really just, I'd say, a reflection of their society. Of course they'd take a versatile technology with great potential, and immediately use it for war instead of anything better.

Just like, I dunno, inventing a versatile energy source that could power entire countries, complete earthmoving construction projects in mere moments, ease the harvesting of natural resources, and send people to the stars better than any rocket ever made... and instead, using that tech to build thousands of immensely destructive weapon platforms and promptly sit a button press away from societal self-destruction for decades on end.

 

[Mquz]

I was assuming that the reason your British cops don't have guns in the modern era to deal with violent criminals who might have guns, is because you turned London into a surveillance state with CCTV cameras and send some version of SWAT to deal with them.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I was assuming that the reason your British cops don't have guns in the modern era to deal with violent criminals who might have guns, is because you turned London into a surveillance state with CCTV cameras and send some version of SWAT to deal with them.

Click to shrink...

Yes, we have armed response units, but they're not exactly in frequent operation. CCTV wouldn't stop someone with a gun shooting someone, it would just make it easier to track their movements afterwards and convict them. And that wouldn't explain the rest of the country.

 

[Queshire]

I was assuming that the reason your British cops don't have guns in the modern era to deal with violent criminals who might have guns, is because you turned London into a surveillance state with CCTV cameras and send some version of SWAT to deal with them.

Click to shrink...

Uhhhhh... Is this getting too close to modern politics?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Uhhhhh... Is this getting too close to modern politics?

Click to shrink...

It's a bit iffy, but we've had more or less the same firearm laws for over twenty years. We've never had an all gun-armed police force.

 

[Mquz]

It's a bit iffy, but we've had more or less the same firearm laws for over twenty years. We've never had an all gun-armed police force.

Click to shrink...

The CCTV surveillance state thing is a bit newer.