With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

kedgisgo · Feb 16, 2021

hmmm... lost souls screaming in the void... in a setting like DC, with so many space faring species, it must be a common problem.

that's not even taking into account all the planets that randomly blow up *cough* krypton *cough*

is this why possible!future!Paul recruits Nightmare Moon? to be a goddess of death for those lost in the endless night?

like some sort of cosmic Charon equivalent?

because goddamn does this verse need a psychopomp for those lost in space

Darko · Feb 16, 2021

kedgisgo said:
hmmm... lost souls screaming in the void... in a setting like DC, with so many space faring species, it must be a common problem.

that's not even taking into account all the planets that randomly blow up *cough* krypton *cough*

is this why possible!future!Paul recruits Nightmare Moon? to be a goddess of death for those lost in the endless night?

like some sort of cosmic Charon equivalent?

because goddamn does this verse need a psychopomp for those lost in space

Luna isn't really a death god.

She's a moon, night and dream god, but not death.

I think he recruited her because he didn't want her potentially fighting her sister to death.

Yeah they resolved their differences in the show, but that could have also been an alternate universe where that wouldn't have happened and one, or both of them killed each other.

He also likes seeing people reach their full potential and thought he could help Luna with that.

Though yeah, they do need a psychopomp for space deaths.

FreeGod · Feb 16, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"Well, the galaxy's other major evil empire is Apokolips, and… New Gods tend to fight in that way. So we can do them next?"

"I will look forward to it. My ring, tell me of the new gods."

I feel less certain about the OLC's ability to beat Apokolips then the reach. Everything the reach can do the OLC can do if not always on the same scale, but there could be a new God that can just wave his hand and cut off the orange light from an area.

Mr Zoat : Have reach started trying to use bribery on the OLC? Or specific lanterns anyway. That would seem to be about as obvious as way to try and deal with them as using fear on green lanterns. Not sure what they can offer, but I am sure that they can think of a few things.

Vaermina · Feb 16, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"The.. second thing I did with my ring was reconfiguring my physical body. There's no fundamental reason why I can't just grow a huge amount of skin."

Actually there are many fundamental reasons why you shouldn't be able to do that.

Not the least of which is that maintaining a 100 square kilometer self should drain your ring to nothing in a matter of seconds.

Alasnuyo · Feb 16, 2021

kedgisgo said:
hmmm... lost souls screaming in the void... in a setting like DC, with so many space faring species, it must be a common problem.

that's not even taking into account all the planets that randomly blow up *cough* krypton *cough*

is this why possible!future!Paul recruits Nightmare Moon? to be a goddess of death for those lost in the endless night?

like some sort of cosmic Charon equivalent?

because goddamn does this verse need a psychopomp for those lost in space

IIRC, isn't Death of the Endless supposed to oversee this sort of stuff?

As exposited back on Mars, souls that lingered in the material world in low magic areas tend to enter torpor; becoming insensate. So they're not really going to be conscious for long after death. Assuming that this DC-verse ends in a Big Crunch deep into the future, all souls would eventually reunite in such a scenario. I presume they would probably be vacuumed up by the Source after that.

But if non of the above scenarios apply, then yeah, one probably needs an entire order of psychopomps to just to manage the lingering souls in the Milky Way galaxy. Probably patterned after the Lantern corps if the Maltusians ended up in charge.

Handlewithcare · Feb 16, 2021

Paul is definitely not neurotypical (again) just because his enlightenment is gone.

No matter that something like this is possible, growing kilometers of skin should not have been such an easy option for him, the instinctual, deep seated revulsion we feel towards bodily harm should have prevented it.

Chojin Patriarch · Feb 16, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
10th July 2012
16:36 GMT

"Do you think he died?"

I raise my eyebrows at Lantern Ragnar. "Who?"

"The Reach commander who killed you. Do you think that he was on the ship which exploded?"

Pfft. If he was as smart as he seemed to think he was, he'd have been nowhere near the fighting. Typical back-seat driver, really. I suspect that's standard practice for Reach commanders anyway. Both the distance and the attitude...

"I think it unlikely. Honestly, I'd be surprised if he was anywhere near this system. There was no logical reason for it; nothing that was likely to happen required an immediate political decision."

"Not even nearby? At least?"

The Reach are anything but honourable warriors, Ragnar. Their leaders prefer their own personal safety to the hustle and bustle of the front lines...

"He might have been just outside of the system with some sort of advanced stealth setup, but the Reach have FTL sensors and FTL communicators and I wasn't making an effort to block either. Sorry to disappoint."

"I know that I shouldn't expect him to challenge us in person once he learns that his gambit has failed, but he should confirm the death of his target. This is slovenly."

He's just itching for a good, honest fight, isn't he? Just two badasses punching and slashing at each other until one stops moving... Or perhaps the fine dance of two masters of their weapons, locked in a stalemate of mental judo as tactic after tactic is thought of and abandoned, until one single strike is unleashed...

"You… Really want to fight those elite scarab warriors, don't you?"

He smiles at his own foolishness. "Do you think I could simply put in a request?"

I'd say he needs to get laid, but that's the wrong kind of desire... And here I though the term 'Conflict Libido' only applied to Worm stories...

"Not yet, but if you want to raise your profile I can ask Dox about having you appear in a few propaganda broadcasts. Then you could take a tour of worlds on the front lines with your public appearances advertised well in advanced, and we could see who turned up."

For a moment he looks interested, then the interest fades.

To be fair, I doubt he's as famous as OL is, and largely unknown in the Reach's intelligence circles. Even cutting a sweet Puroresu-style "Come and Get Me!" is unlikely to get their attention...

"They would probably just plant a bomb."

"Probably."

Heh, the ultimate cockblock for a warrior like Ragnar. Not even the guts to face him, so they just send some goon with a suitcase nuke...

"It is churlish to ask, but can our next great crusade be against people who fight as elite warriors who prefer single combat between champions?"

"Well, the galaxy's other major evil empire is Apokolips, and… New Gods tend to fight in that way. So we can do them next?"

"I will look forward to it. My ring, tell me of the new gods."

And Ragnar knows exactly why he's got this boner.

"Illustres, we believe that we may have a solution."

I smile and fly towards the Venturians. "Yes?"

Ah, didn't take them too long. Now, how crazy is the plan going to be, I wonder?

One of them has a space suit shaped for a fin, and from his face I see that he's a dolphin-man. Wait…

"Oh, hello again. We met briefly at Professor Sephtian's party last September."

Ah, the joy of connections. Good to see his memory is starting to stabilise a bit.

"Yes. I remember. The party where he told me to go and sit in the corner when everyone else did interesting work. Where I was the only one left after everyone else decamped to the surface."

"Oh. Ah, sorry, I didn't-. I wasn't keeping.. track. I didn't mean to insult your speciality."

And now I miss the Orange Quotes. So hard to tell who's who without other descriptors. I assume dolphin-gent is the first one, going from the content...

"No, I don't hold you responsible. And it's… Due to you that I'm out here."

Doctor Wilsone nods.

Septhian and the rest got the Sky. He got the Stars. I'd say that's worth the not-quite-an-insult.

"Doctor Damon's preference for studying behaviour rather than thaumatic systems has been quite helpful in understanding how the orange light you use works in relation to magic. And this is largely his idea."

"Whether I'm taking credit or blame. The problem isn't forcing the separated parts of your soul back into you; being in you is their natural state. The problem is that your tattoos -which appear to have been re-empowered by whatever spiritual energies you have left- are, combined with the lack of a background magic system, preventing the natural process of re-incorporation."

So effectively, his soul is trying to use a reassembly spell, but it can't find the target. How ironic.

"Okay, makes sense so far."

"So since we can't spread you out across a few hundred cubic kilometres, we think that-"

Oh, don't say things like that... It just gives OL ideas. Ridiculous but effective ideas...

"Why not?"

"-by-. What? What do you mean, 'why not'?"

"The.. second thing I did with my ring was reconfiguring my physical body. There's no fundamental reason why I can't just grow a huge amount of skin."

Besides the obvious grossness of the whole process. Seriously... Ew...

"And-. 'Huge amount' includes hundreds of cubic kilometres?"

"I'm not saying that I'd enjoy it or that I'd keep it afterwards, but if it would make things easier to get the rest of my soul back then yes."

Needs must, Ends Justifies the Means and all that. One time where OL's mindset makes for a quicker, if grosser, result.

"That might simplify things. What I had been going to say is that while your tattoos stop spells detecting you, they don't do anything to block physical contact. The disassociated parts of your soul can't detect you, but if we touch you then we can replicate your 'feel' and draw it to you through our magic. In a place like this our range wouldn't be particularly great, but it would be faster than trying to through every part of this region of space. As you are now, anyway. If you can turn yourself into a giant flesh-blob, then it's even more practical."

Hmm... What would be the most effective shape? A globe? a spray of tentacles? A starfish?

"How far can you 'pull'?"

"In theory, as far as the local mana field extends. But given how diffuse it is, we won't be able to pull hard or fast. We'll literally just be pulling with our own spiritual strength."

One step away from pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps... And likely to leave them exhausted if any trouble comes along...

I turn around in a circle, taking in the entirety of local space.

"There aren't any influences here that could stop the spread. How far has it spread?"

If chunks of his souls are on their way out of the system, that could be a problem...

"We haven't had time to test it, exactly. That's one of the things I hope to be able to research while I'm in space. What do souls do when they're trapped in a void for an extended period of time?"

"Ah… As far as I know, desperately cluster together and eventually sort of merge into a screaming nightmare."

I bet Hades' Realm was a bit noisy until the souls calmed down...

"…"

With how his eyes are designed and the shape of his helmet it's hard to tell, but I think he's staring at me.

Is his head tilted?

That guarantees he's boggling at you. I bet he heard stories from Sephtian and the others OL's worked with, but the reality...

"That's… Plausible. How do you know that? I wasn't provided with data from previous studies."

"I've had an interesting life. And Lord Hades has given me some pointers."

I'll bet he did... Amongst the complaining about shades driven mad by their experiences?

"I'm going to request an audience when we return to Earth. We've had the Leentniar ships who were in the system remain here until we can cleanse them of arcane influences."

I frown. "Why would we want to stop the souls of their dead leaving with them?"

Well, for a start, bits of you may be mixed in there. And imagine the trauma that may be causing the Leentniar shades...

"Because we don't know it would just be their souls, and because it's unlikely that their souls have retained perfect individual integrity. They my well have taken bits of you with them. To be completely clear, you're unlikely to get all of you back."

I nod. "I accept that. I just need the general shape, then I'll spend some time on a thaumically active world until I'm fully recovered. Oh, and can we build a soul siphon of some sort for the Leentniar? Ideally, they'd-."

Surprisingly compassionate. I still wonder how much concern the Leentniar have for their fate after death...

"Keep the souls of their own dead, yes, but no, we can't. There isn't enough thaumic energy here to brute force them into one place and they don't have their own magic system that we could learn in order to bind them with finesse. The best we could do is remove as much of you as possible and then have their larger ships fly through the area and pick up any souls that wished to make the journey."

Which I assume they would find a strange request. But they could probably appreciate the compassionate aspect of it...

I nod. "Alright. Is there anything you need to do before I turn myself into a giant skin flap?"

"Warning the L.E.G.I.O.N. ships to keep their distance would be a good idea. Otherwise, we're ready to begin."

Yeah, having an inattentive scoutship punch a hole in the Illustres might be hard to explain.

Man, if people on Earth ever hear about this, the Cake thing is going to seem small-time in comparison. The Team, for example will never let him live it down... And this means tomorrow's chapter will be very, very odd.

Darko · Feb 16, 2021

FreeGod said:
Have reach started trying to use bribery on the OLC? Or specific lanterns anyway. That would seem to be about as obvious as way to try and deal with them as using fear or green lanterns. Not sure what they can offer, but I am sure that they can think of a few things.

In one of the previous episodes one of the Lanterns was planning to kill Paul after they finish with the Reach, so there are probably others that may also want to do that.

A lot of them probably want to be remembered for doing something great, and killing the host of the Ophidian certainly qualifies as great. It's terrible, but still great.

The OLC doesn't exactly put much stock in recruiting mentally healthy and sane people.

Yeah they recruit those that can use the rings safely, but as was shown in the previous episodes they've also recruited sociopaths, psychopaths and war criminals. Not groups that are known for loyalty.

The Reach may try to bribe these guys with the chance to kill Paul.

Alasnuyo said:
IIRC, isn't Death of the Endless supposed to oversee this sort of stuff?

Yes, but in the comics the souls of those that have died in space still remain in space.

A Green Lantern once talked to a bunch of them.

Darko · Feb 16, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Pfft. If he was as smart as he seemed to think he was, he'd have been nowhere near the fighting. Typical back-seat driver, really. I suspect that's standard practice for Reach commanders anyway. Both the distance and the attitude...

To be fair that's also how a lot of commanders in Earth do things.

The higher ups don't engage in combat much, they let their subordinates do it.

Chojin Patriarch said:
The Reach are anything but honourable warriors, Ragnar. Their leaders prefer their own personal safety to the hustle and bustle of the front lines

Again, this is also true of Earth.

Chojin Patriarch said:
To be fair, I doubt he's as famous as OL is, and largely unknown in the Reach's intelligence circles. Even cutting a sweet Puroresu-style "Come and Get Me!" is unlikely to get their attention..

Given that he was one of Paul's first recruits and went to Qward, the Reach may know about him.

Chojin Patriarch said:
. I assume dolphin-gent is the first one, going from the content.

You assume correctly.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Needs must, Ends Justifies the Means and all that

Careful now.

That road can lead to sociopath/douchebag/moron/rapist Tangseids way of thinking if you're not careful.

FreeGod · Feb 16, 2021

Darko said:
Yeah they recruit those that can use the rings safely, but as was shown in the previous episodes they've also recruited sociopaths, psychopaths and war criminals. Not groups that are known for loyalty.

Considering that power rings have a return on death function I don't think they corp minds if a few of those die. Not sure what they are going to do with vets after they beat the reach.

NightmareWarden · Feb 16, 2021

Handlewithcare said:
Paul is definitely not neurotypical (again) just because his enlightenment is gone.

No matter that something like this is possible, growing kilometers of skin should not have been such an easy option for him, the instinctual, deep seated revulsion we feel towards bodily harm should have prevented it.

Someone neurotypical would at least ask if his hair (extended to fabulous lengths) would count enough for Sorcerer Squad's needs.

TheLunarwolf · Feb 16, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
I nod. "Alright. Is there anything you need to do before I turn myself into a giant skin flap?"

Remember to moisturise.

Darko · Feb 16, 2021

FreeGod said:
Considering that power rings have a return on death function I don't think they corp minds if a few of those die. Not sure what they are going to do with vets after they beat the reach.

Presumably take away their rings using the AI in the rings if they think the vets are going to misuse the rings.

BR549 · Feb 16, 2021

Darko said:
To be fair that's also how a lot of commanders in Earth do things.

The higher ups don't engage in combat much, they let their subordinates do it.

To be even more fair, that's how a smart generalship is run. Commanding from the front is romantic, but yes, they can hit an elephant from that range, and so all it actually does is produce a lot of dead generals.

Of course, for someone like Ragnar, this sets the Heresy Alarm blaring.

ForeverShogo · Feb 16, 2021

Well, to answer your question . . . I only really played Monster of the East when it had just come out, but whether it makes sense or not WARDEN would kick the shit out of the Hangdogs every single time.

Maybe some hotfix changed things and I was getting early weirdness. Or maybe you also played it right after it came out, in which case I have no idea why WARDEN always wins in my games and the Hangdogs always win in your games.

Mr Zoat · Feb 16, 2021

FreeGod said:
Mr Zoat : Have reach started trying to use bribery on the OLC? Or specific lanterns anyway. That would seem to be about as obvious as way to try and deal with them as using fear on green lanterns. Not sure what they can offer, but I am sure that they can think of a few things.

Not really. Most of the people they've recruited are extremely loyal, loathe the Reach or have a strong warrior ethos, if not all three. And there's little an Orange Lantern can't just get for themselves.

Darko said:
Yes, but in the comics the souls of those that have died in space still remain in space.

A Green Lantern once talked to a bunch of them.

Yes, it was Saarek, when he was searching for the Anti-Monitor's corpse at the behest of Scar. I don't suppose anyone's found an image of it, have they? I wanted to link to it in today's segment but couldn't find it.

Darko · Feb 16, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Yes, it was Saarek, when he was searching for the Anti-Monitor's corpse at the behest of Scar. I don't suppose anyone's found an image of it, have they? I wanted to link to it in today's segment but couldn't find it.

Well I fround this image of him talking to ghosts, but it's not the one you were thinking of.

I'll see if I can find the other one.

Darko · Feb 16, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Yes, it was Saarek, when he was searching for the Anti-Monitor's corpse at the behest of Scar. I don't suppose anyone's found an image of it, have they? I wanted to link to it in today's segment but couldn't find it.

I found another one of him talking to dead people.

Darko · Feb 16, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Yes, it was Saarek, when he was searching for the Anti-Monitor's corpse at the behest of Scar. I don't suppose anyone's found an image of it, have they? I wanted to link to it in today's segment but couldn't find it.

Found it.

It's in Green Lantern Corps Volume 2 issue 29.

Mr Zoat · Feb 16, 2021

Darko said:
Found it.

It's in Green Lantern Corps Volume 2 issue 29.

That's the one, thank you. Could have sworn I checked 29.

Darko · Feb 16, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
That's the one, thank you. Could have sworn I checked 29.

I was first checking the Green Lantern comics issue 29, but then I went to the wiki and saw that it was Green Lantern Corps issue 29.

Maybe we were both just looking at the wrong comic.

nick012000 · Feb 16, 2021

ForeverShogo said:
Calvert from 3's Point Lookout eventually developed psychic powers (telepathy) after spending 200 years as a brain in the jar, but given that we don't see similar abilities in, say, the Think Tank, he probably just got lucky.

IIRC literally all of the brain-in-a-jar robots in the Fallout 4 DLC had psychic shockwaves as one of their primary methods of ranged attack. They were also all bugnuts insane, and their murderous insanity played a role in all of the quests they were involved in.

Rafin · Feb 16, 2021

The Leentniar have been dying in space for generations. Is their path just a continuous line of Nightmare Mass with a few occasional breaks for where they raided a planet and their dead were so lucky as to be allowed into wherever that specific planet puts genocidal raiders from completely foreign cultures?

DrThoth · Feb 16, 2021

This might have already been asked, but the dolphin-man elementalist presumably isn't a Venturian, since he was at Sephtian's work party way back when. How did he become a LEGION-affiliated mage?

Darko · Feb 16, 2021

DrThoth said:
This might have already been asked, but the dolphin-man elementalist presumably isn't a Venturian, since he was at Sephtian's work party way back when. How did he become a LEGION-affiliated mage?

It's possible that he either moved to Venturia, or this space project is also including the rest of Atlantis.

Coda · Feb 16, 2021

DrThoth said:
This might have already been asked, but the dolphin-man elementalist presumably isn't a Venturian, since he was at Sephtian's work party way back when. How did he become a LEGION-affiliated mage?

It's implied he didn't fit in very well with the culture of the Atlantean labs so when the opportunity arose... he took it.

Orabilis · Feb 16, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
I nod. "Alright. Is there anything you need to do before I turn myself into a giant skin flap?"

Dang I dunno how to get the embed to start at 1:42

Radix · Feb 16, 2021

Vaermina said:
Actually there are many fundamental reasons why you shouldn't be able to do that.

Not the least of which is that maintaining a 100 square kilometer self should drain your ring to nothing in a matter of seconds.

Wouldn't even creating that much mass cost a bunch of energy? I mean I am not an expert on rings, but there is still the first law of thermodynamics. Sure you can create an energy construct, but converting energy into matter must take massive costs.

Not to mention turning yourself into a blob of skin feels like the opposite of Wholeness Rightly Assumed. You cant just think your way into having different desires. Especially such a primal one. You can certainly ignore it, but you cabt make yourself desire the opposite.

This feels like one of the true primary weaknesses of an orange ring.

infinityDivided · Feb 16, 2021

Radix said:
Not to mention turning yourself into a blob of skin feels like the opposite of Wholeness Rightly Assumed. You cant just think your way into having different desires. Especially such a primal one. You can certainly ignore it, but you cabt make yourself desire the opposite.

This feels like one of the true primary weaknesses of an orange ring.

Want the ends, want the means. He desires to be whole, and expanding himself temporarily is the fastest way to do that.

rkyeun · Feb 16, 2021

Vaermina said:
Not the least of which is that maintaining a 100 square kilometer self should drain your ring to nothing in a matter of seconds.

Hello, I'm Mogo and I'm here to talk to you about how trivial it is to maintain a large environmental shield, even when it's powered by something as difficult to handle and fickle as will, rather than your innate instinctual unyielding desire to not die in space.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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