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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
NightmareWarden said:
I'm just glad he isn't with Quinzel. No problem with the accent on my end though.

This isn't a happy question, but…. How would you want Paul and Jade's relationship to end? It'd be at least two chapters. How should it be handled that would affect Paul in meaningful ways? No one should *want* to say "I'm going to stop reading until the chapter is done." So how would those folks, who dislike the relationship, get hooked in?
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I don't want the relationship between Paul and Jade to end, but a good way in my opinion to do it would be Jade pushing Paul away because of the fear of attachment Paul seeing this fear but not being able to really help (To clarify it would be one of those situations where the person needs to help themselves) and they would break up over Paul constantly trying help/fix Jade and Jade pushing Paul away/resisting any changes. A big change for Paul going forward would be him trying to date or only be in relationships with people who know exactly who they are and what they want in life. It could get weird since the only people like that are enlightened Lanterns like Paul or Guy.
 
The Unaligned Player said:
Would you happen to know where that post is?
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Afraid not, sorry. And I didn't even know that was the planned ending scene of the story, though I think I remember Paragon's ending being him just sighing at the Justice League and parting ways in some fashion.

Is Batman
getting a yellow power ring
going to come up anytime soon? Or is that not happening anymore?
 
DrThoth said:
Afraid not, sorry. And I didn't even know that was the planned ending scene of the story, though I think I remember Paragon's ending being him just sighing at the Justice League and parting ways in some fashion.

Is Batman
getting a yellow power ring
going to come up anytime soon? Or is that not happening anymore?
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This year or the next one.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Do I feel like I was almost horribly violated?" She nods. "No, I don't. I like Kara. If she'd been in her right mind and I wasn't seeing Jade, I'd be all for it." I shrug. "And if having sex with an attractive woman prevents her going on a murderous rampage, that's fine too. Though, thank you. I do appreciate your concern." I smile at her. "Good evening."
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Your weekly reminder that Paragon is functionally insane.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"You could always go with them."

Batman shoots me a look, but I mean… Why not? We're not going to let him jump in a time sphere if we can help it, but if some other timeline doesn't share our attitude and we already know that he can't make major changes without just creating an alternate timeline. So even if one of them is evil, then they can't mess things up for anyone in an established timeline.
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That reminds me: whatever happened to Dox's desire to have Paul recruit some time travel specialists for them?
 
Kalem_Lee said:
https://www.deviantart.com/firewithinmidnight/art/Secret-Altar-671622087

https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr....311139/page-1553?post=18969377#post-18969377

https://www.deviantart.com/firewithinmidnight/art/Unfortunate-Partner-System-671623228

Theres a couple.
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This is what I wanted so many years ago, the premise was hilarious and extremely interesting, with Paul having to deal with a semi sane super powered Stalker obsessed with him, bonus points if she either ended up with one of the rings Paul called when Truggs stole his ring or recruited by a Controller trying to get a human to a similar level to Paul... Yet Sadly Dana got exiled to the future to never be seen again and all that possible drama got lost... Even worse Jade ended up in a relationship with Paul (they have no chemistry nor compatibility and the plot is lesser when she is around).

Now when Dana is finally back, she is getting exiled to the future again and we are once again left in a world we're Jade is the main love interests... She is a street level character, background at the absolute most when it comes to the scales lanterns deal with, she adds nothing to the fic plot wise and the fic is lesser for it.
 
Bud-E said:
I don't know why you all dislike Jade so much. If I was Paul she wouldn't have been my first choice *cough* Dannet Riley *cough*, but I think they work fine as a couple. We just don't see them together much because as Zoat said it doesn't affect the main story.
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She is twenty years younger that him more or less. Also she is not Princess Luna.
 
Bud-E said:
I don't know why you all dislike Jade so much. If I was Paul she wouldn't have been my first choice *cough* Dannet Riley *cough*, but I think they work fine as a couple. We just don't see them together much because as Zoat said it doesn't affect the main story.
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And that is exactly the issue, it has no effect on the fic because the relationship is plot irrelevant and it would be extremely contrived to make it plot relevant. Consider how plot relevant a relationship with Kara could be, or with Dana if she kept a little bit of her CrAzy desires to be a hero?

Not only are their particular circumstances interesting by themselves, their personalities as a survivor of a dying race and a maladapted lady with mental issues that wants to be a hero for the right/wrong reasons also help significantly when it comes to spinning plots, also their power sets and equipment means they are also in a similar scale to Paul, same with Love Enhanced Zatanna.

If Paul were in a relationship with another mundane irrelevant person like non crazy Quinzel I would be saying the same thing, the only thing Jade added to the plot was Drama with Artemis and the rest of the team and even that is absolutely no longer relevant because Paul no longer interacts with the team in a meaningful manner, so the ONE thing the relationship with Jade added to the fic is absolutely no longer a factor.
 
Chaoswind said:
And that is exactly the issue, it has no effect on the fic because the relationship is plot irrelevant and it would be extremely contrived to make it plot relevant. Consider how plot relevant a relationship with Kara could be, or with Dana if she kept a little bit of her CrAzy desires to be a hero?

Not only are their particular circumstances interesting by themselves, their personalities as a survivor of a dying race and a maladapted lady with mental issues that wants to be a hero for the right/wrong reasons also help significantly when it comes to spinning plots, also their power sets and equipment means they are also in a similar scale to Paul, same with Love Enhanced Zatanna.

If Paul were in a relationship with another mundane irrelevant person like non crazy Quinzel I would be saying the same thing, the only thing Jade added to the plot was Drama with Artemis and the rest of the team and even that is absolutely no longer relevant because Paul no longer interacts with the team in a meaningful manner, so the ONE thing the relationship with Jade added to the fic is absolutely no longer a factor.
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While true, it would be pretty out of character at this point for Kara or Zatanna to actually enjoy a relationship with Paragon.

In fact... I think Paragon would be pretty much limited to Aliens, Gold diggers, and Psychologically damaged people for long term relationships at this point.
 
Vaermina said:
While true, it would be pretty out of character at this point for Kara or Zatanna to actually enjoy a relationship with Paragon.

In fact... I think Paragon would be pretty much limited to Aliens, Gold diggers, and Psychologically damaged people for long term relationships at this point.
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Again, why do you think this, aside from your distaste for all things Paul?
 
The Unaligned Player said:
Again, why do you think this, aside from your distaste for all things Paul?
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Because it's clear as day that the relationship with Jade is a plot negative for the fic?

It would be relevant if Paul was still in the team and he was still a rookie Lantern dealing with mildly powered people, but that ship left port ages ago and the relationship with Jade adds nothing to the fic, even more so now that Paul pretty much doesn't interact with Artemis as much.

Also I wouldn't say I hate the Paragon, I am just vocal when things rub me the wrong way.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Yes?" I lower my hand. "I'm sorry, the Nabu snap was uncalled for. Unless it turns out that they actually haven't gotten rid of him."
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Not gonna lie. Want him to end up there, gain unequivocal evidence of what they would do if he hadn't pushed so hard and video evidence of zatanna having one day a year meeting with her father and say see you idiots would have left them to suffer!
By Nabu Snap he means when he snapped at them right?
Chojin Patriarch said:
Ah, good, doing the smart thing and getting rid of a potential threat.
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On the other hand their Persuader now gets 2 Atomic Axes!
Chojin Patriarch said:
As long as you don't come looking for trouble, I think OL can tolerate it... Though a good long chat with Brainiac 5 might be overdue...
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Please tell me she looks herself up.
 
I do have to say that the unaltered Earth 16 didnt have an invasion of angels, or a city get blown up by demons.

It does seem like Nabu prevented the buildup of arcane threats, and his absence was a major loss to the defense of Earth.

I think that is certainly worth a girl not seeing her dad all that often. It means a lot of girls still get to see their living fathers.

Plus its not like they were unaware. They put on Nabu's helmet wilingly. He didnt force or coerce them. Well not Zatanna at least. And the fact that Zatara wanted it off her doesnt change she did it willingly.
 
Chaoswind said:
And that is exactly the issue, it has no effect on the fic because the relationship is plot irrelevant and it would be extremely contrived to make it plot relevant. Consider how plot relevant a relationship with Kara could be, or with Dana if she kept a little bit of her CrAzy desires to be a hero?

Not only are their particular circumstances interesting by themselves, their personalities as a survivor of a dying race and a maladapted lady with mental issues that wants to be a hero for the right/wrong reasons also help significantly when it comes to spinning plots, also their power sets and equipment means they are also in a similar scale to Paul, same with Love Enhanced Zatanna.

If Paul were in a relationship with another mundane irrelevant person like non crazy Quinzel I would be saying the same thing, the only thing Jade added to the plot was Drama with Artemis and the rest of the team and even that is absolutely no longer relevant because Paul no longer interacts with the team in a meaningful manner, so the ONE thing the relationship with Jade added to the fic is absolutely no longer a factor.
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About the whole Jade plot relevancy thing, I feel that there is still plenty of room for her in the future plot. For quite some time, the story has been heading in the direction of the OLC vs the Reach. This is the big event that the story will be revolving around from here on out, regardless of the smaller arcs that appear along the way. When you look at the characters who could fit into this sort of story, you come up with very few good answers, especially so when you consider Paul's group of potential romance interests.

I won't say anything about Dana, because I hardly remember or know anything about her except for the time travel and magic coin stuff, but for both Kara and Zatanna, neither of them would be able to fit into the central Reach storyline in the same way that Jade can. Neither of them are soldiers, nor do they have any interests in being soldiers, so it would take quite a bit of twisting to get them into that part of the story for any character relevant reason outside of helping Paul, who would simply be their boyfriend in this hypothetical plot line. And while both of them are capable of greater feats than Jade, in a war of the scale that is occurring in this story, it ultimately wouldn't matter.

On the other hand, Jade fits into the central plot perfectly. She is a character who defines herself off of her tactical and combat abilities, and I couldn't imagine a better place for her to hone them than an interstellar war, one that is primarily defined off of tactics and technological prowess. The only problems are that she has few other obvious plot hooks to her story, unlike Kara and Zatanna, who could have various other side plots involving hero and villain conflict, magic, and kryptonians. Additionally, the main plot that Jade has attached herself to has yet to have time to develop, so we simply haven't reached a point where she can begin to become more plot relevant.

The choice to have Paul's romantic interest gain her plot relevance from her attachment to the central plot, rather than from the potential of her side stories, is, at the very least, not an objectively bad choice on Mr. Zoat's part.

Speaking more on Paul's romantic tendencies, I feel that it is in Paul's nature to want to ensure that his romantic interest is as fulfilled as possible. He tried it with Kon when he made the flying armor, (although he was a bit crazy back then), Mandated Paul did it with his Jade, and regular Paul is currently trying it with Jade, although he's going for a more hands off approach, as that is what Jade seems to need. If he were romantically involved with Kara, he would definitely go down the route of trying to bring back Krypton. There's a bunch of different methods he could go down towards achieving that goal, and they would all be convoluted and wonderful. I'll admit it would make for a great side plot, as would any magical misadventures Paul would get up to with Zatanna were they romantically involved, but it would have next to nothing to do with the main plot. Which some might see as a benefit.
 
The Unaligned Player said:
Again, why do you think this, aside from your distaste for all things Paul?
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First of all, we're talking about Paragon, not Paul.

And aside from the already mentioned reasons... Paragon's basically just an Orange Light powered robot at this point... He doesn't think like a human, he doesn't act like a human, he doesn't have the normal emotional range of a human.

Now add to that the multiple Genocides and mass killings, the fact that he has a an extreme and vocal disdain for organized religion, and the fact that he is almost never around...

And well... The pool of human woman who he could form a long term relationship with becomes extremely limited...
 
Radix said:
I do have to say that the unaltered Earth 16 didnt have an invasion of angels, or a city get blown up by demons.

It does seem like Nabu prevented the buildup of arcane threats, and his absence was a major loss to the defense of Earth.

I think that is certainly worth a girl not seeing her dad all that often. It means a lot of girls still get to see their living fathers.

Plus its not like they were unaware. They put on Nabu's helmet wilingly. He didnt force or coerce them. Well not Zatanna at least. And the fact that Zatara wanted it off her doesnt change she did it willingly.
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In the style of thinking that Paul would most likely subscribe to, pinning the defence of the Earth onto a single antisocial lich is not a good strategy. Even if the Earth has to undergo some "growing pains" while it develops a more thorough arcane defense, in the end, the results would be better for it. Of course, the Nabu situation could have been handled much better. From a perspective of logic and benefits, Paul's actions were a mistake. But Paul doesn't truly care about any of that. He lives life according to his desires, and it just so happens that, on most occasions, Paul wants the path that leads to the greatest benefits for all. Just not when it comes to Nabu.
 
Future Tense (part 22)
14th September 2012
20:02 GMT -5

The Kara formerly known as Demon Supergirl sits in the corner of her room, legs pulled up to her chest with her arms wrapped around them. Her torso is… Bobbing back and forth slightly, eyes staring vacantly ahead and her lips…

"Any idea what she's saying?"

Ambrose nods. "Mark. Mark. The mark, his mark. Things like that."

The light inside the room is red. I don't want to constantly expose her to gold kryptonite but obviously we can't risk her regaining her strength.

"Any idea what happened to her?"

He shrugs. "Some. She wasn't possessed. She just comes from somewhere where there's so much demonic magic everywhere that it metastasized. Must be literal hell on Earth."

"Earth?"

He frowns for a moment, then nods.

"Never been to Krypton, but I know what Earth demons feel like. And that's what it feels like."

"'Feels'? She's still..?"

"What, you thought Noriel was capable of subtlety? It's sunk in. No part of her body or soul isn't marinated in it. Noriel just burned off the worst of it."

"Anything left that isn't made of demonic magic?"

"Pff, maybe." He shrugs. "I'll do what I can, but I can't see any kind of quick fix here. And that's before we even get to the psychological damage. If she started off a nice girl like the other Karas and then got exposed to an Earth consumed by Hell, I hate to think about the things she's seen. And…"

He glances into the cell.

"Probably done."

"How could something like that happen?"

"Big enough sacrifice, big enough violation of something sacred…" He signs wearily. "I couldn't tell you exactly because it's never been done before. Imagine if what Ishmael Gregor was trying to do kept expanding and expanding, more people getting… Caught up in it."

"Could that actually happen? I assumed that it would eventually burn itself out."

"Eventually. Yeah. Eventually whoever set it all up would destroy the world that fed them. But the embers could keep smouldering away for a very long time."

I nod. "Something else to watch out for, then. Thank you, Ambrose. Please let me know if there's any change."

He nods. "Will do. Listen…" He shifts awkwardly. "Have you had a chance to look up Constantine yet?"

"He specifically told me that he didn't want me to."

"Speaking as a member of the Trenchcoat Brigade, we don't always know what's best for us. I've had a look, and I can't find hide nor hair of him. Something about this isn't right. I don't know if he needs help or needs to be stopped from doing something-."

"Alright, I'll-. Add it-."

Old Kara rounds the corner, sees me and then backs away.

"-to the slate. Kara!"

I jog after her. If she really can't face me then she's more than fast enough to get away, but with any luck she won't.

"Kara?"

I turn the corner to see her leaning against the wall, arms wrapped defensively around her chest and eyes downcast.

"Feeling better?"

"Um. Not… Feeling evil, if… That's what you mean."

"Aside from being mildly frustrated that after telling New Kara off for opening something without-."

"Um. No, that-." She glances up for a moment. "Dana opened the-. The crate of kryptonite."

…

I could probably catch her.

"Then I can't even blame you for that. Look, mind control happens. If you're worried-."

"It didn't feel like I was being controlled. I just-. I wanted you. I'm-. I'm so sorry, I-."

"Don't… Worry about it. My main concern at the time was how you'd react when you snapped out of it. And maybe a bit what it said about the desires you're suppressing."

"I'm not planning on-. I mean, you're with Jade, and I-. I wouldn't-. Like that."

"No, I don't think you'd threaten mass murder in order to get a man while in your right mind." I extend my arms towards her. "Hug?"

She just… Stares at me for a moment.

"Kara, I've told you what I did the first time I bonded with the Ophidian. You know what the Justice League did when Klarion was controlling them, and you know what Zatanna was like when the Star Sapphire started unnaturally influencing her. This is the same sort of thing. Unless you voluntarily exposed yourself to it, it's not your fault. If the shock has… Made you re-evaluate your life in some way, that's fine. The-."

Ah…

"Evil persona wasn't particularly restrained, but… Heh. I'm the last person who's going to tell you not to follow your desires. The fact that the evil persona also wanted them shouldn't factor in your decisions. I appreciate that the… Switching between the two mental states is a shock, but try not to let it get you down too much, alright?"

"It was… I didn't become someone else. Everything I said, everything I did, that all grew out of something I-. I already-."

She's tearing up.

"Yes, that's what it's like for the more subtle forms of mind control. Come here."

She doesn't move.

"Seriously, come here."

Hesitantly, she moves slightly away from the wall, so I step forward and wrap my arms around her.

"See? You're safe and I'm safe. You can hear my breathing, my heart rate. Do I sound worried?"

"N-. No."

"Do I look worried? Smell worried?"

"No."

"Then don't worry that this is going to affect our relationship. Mind control happens and can be very dangerous when someone as strong as you gets affected, but it's not your fault. Okay?"

"M'kay."
 
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