With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Khettien · 2026-06-09T06:42:43+0100

I've always thought it was kind of funny how the definition of hero changed from a brutal killer of men and beasts into someone who refuses to kill.

I get it. But it's still weird.

Cuchulin · 2026-06-09T06:50:16+0100

Khettien said:
I've always thought it was kind of funny how the definition of hero changed from a brutal killer of men and beasts into someone who refuses to kill.

I get it. But it's still weird.

I think you mean "brutal killer of enemies and wild beasts".

Khettien · 2026-06-09T07:03:32+0100

Cuchulin said:
I think you mean "brutal killer of enemies and wild beasts".

You're not familiar with the original legends of Herakles, are you? I know what I said. Though, to be fair, I probably should have used 'humans' instead of 'men'.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-06-09T07:08:43+0100

Mr Zoat said:
13th September 2013
14:13 GMT

"Orange Lantern." George Harkness raises his pint glass in my direction as I approach his table. "Been a while."

It took me a second to remember who this was: Captain Boomerang. Possibly considered the silliest of the Flash Rogues, given that his special talent is throwing things well. Perhaps he'll get to work on that today.

"Indeed it has." I incline my head towards the seat opposite him. "May I join you?"

He shrugs. "Worked out well last time."

Certainly, he's still here and not stuck in Belle Reve or working for Amanda Waller.

I sit, move one of the coasters a little closer to me and put down my pint of orange juice.

Mister Harkness smirks at it. "Good f' you, staying on brand."

More the fact you don't really want someone with a Power Ring getting drunk while operating it. Especially if it's one that doesn't need as much mental focus as a Green one does.

I glance back at the bar, behind which are beer pumps decorated with unfamiliar brands. "Speaking of brands… What happened to the beer?"

"Bunch a' big breweries went unda. Can't get the raw materials to their big breweries. Places like this either brew their own or get it from micro breweries. Or both."

Ah, a forgotten side-effect of the Anti-Life event. Lost amongst the critical supply issues...

"What's that done for the quality?"

"I usually buy import anyway. Not that I can get any of that anymore."

And being Australian, the man knows his beers.

He looks at me expectantly.

"I'll get you a crate of Guinness."

Hell, that's enough to get him to hear you out.

"Bonza. So what'd'ya want this time? Looks like you got the costume sorted out."

"I understand that you've gotten back into the entertainment industry."

Huh. Surprising. Doing what, trick-shot displays in live shows and on morning TV?

"It's a living. And I'm a bit more famous than I used to be."

"So, is this a..? Permanent thing..?"

At least he's not robbing banks right now.

"Well I'm not going to be fixing the arctic anytime soon, am I? And I'm not dumb enough to pick a fight with Flasher when the world's collapsing."

"Would you be interested in more public relations work?"

Like what, doing PSAs for the OMACs?

He looks at me quizzically. "Did Cold put you up to this?"

"I did ask him about how he thought we could rehabilitate his… Colleagues?"

Sadly, some of them are in it for the love of the game, not the paychecks. Usually the crazier ones...

He snorts, looking away. "Former colleagues, at this point."

"Trickster's licensing his designs to KordTech. Kadabra's studying in Atlantis. Heatwave's-."

I assume Mick Rory's doing stuff with thermal management in cold conditions. He's not quite Captain Cold-levels of knowledge, but...

"Though you were all about real names."

"I'm massaging your ego."

Heh, he usually has to pay good money for that sort of thing.

"Strewth, I'd-" He leans back. "-have brought me other trousers if I'd known."

"He's working in construction, Weather Wizard is undergoing professional counselling-."

Ah, thermal welding that's more effective than typical techniques?

Mr. Harkness frown. "He agreed to that?"

"I don't think he's realised that's what's happening. He likes to talk about himself, and KordTech has had to abandon weather control system production in order to focus on more immediate concerns, so we're paying him to take the strain."

Ah, yes, one of the big egos of the group.

"Hm. Bunch of.. sell outs…"

"Is there a cause you're working for that I don't know about?"

I mean, if this were something silly like Superfriends, the bag guys might well commit to the 'we're evil and proud of it' angle.

"No, but it's the principle of the thing, isn't it?"

"Is it? I thought it was about money and infamy."

Yes, that's his principles.

"Look, I know perfectly well that being able to freeze anything is a bigger deal than being able t' throw boomerangs really well. But at least I can tell myself that I didn't sell out."

"Sell out what to whom?"

Please, do tell us how showing off your throwing skills is paying the bills.

"You, you fucking villain whisperer. You're going to make a rational argument to me now, aren't you? About how I can make more money going legit, without the risk of getting arrested. About how I can get more famous as a carney than as a criminal."

"Something like that. It seems to me that you've considered it yourself."

That's a good one. 'Villain Whisperer'. And it is basically what he does.

"I did it, didn't I?"

"So if you've already made the decision..?"

Is it so bad getting an even bigger paycheck from doing what OL asks?

"No. This is just until the world's a bit less on fire. But if I take a job from you, that's it. I can't deny it to myself any more."

"Sounds like you're cutting off your nose to spite your face, there."

And really, going straight isn't that bad. Much less risk of being punched in the face by someone in long-johns, for a start.

"Maybe. But it's my nose and my face."

"Though if you throw your nose away that's not yours anymore." He snorts, and takes a sip of his pint. "Is that..? Just me? Or do you feel that way about working for anyone?"

That's a very good distinction to check on.

"Any hero."

"It's nice that you still think that I qualify."

Well, by the modern, no-killing boy scout definition Superman pioneered...

He frowns. "Why wouldn't you? If it's about the taking over the world thing, you're doing a better job that the no-hopers who were doing it. That really is a public service."

"I was thinking more about the millions of people I've killed."

Admittedly, most of them weren't Humans, so...

For a moment he doesn't respond. Then there's a faint smirk in the left corner of his mouth as he decides that I'm deadpanning a joke. I smile politely as he maintains it, though his eyes grow increasingly nervous as they roam my face, searching for tells. The smirk fades as he leans back slightly.

I can imagine the slow progression from incredulity to disbelief.

"Bullshit."

"Oh, I've had the best of intentions. They were all very bad people. Or working for very bad people. Or at least part of a very bad civilisation, even if I couldn't confirm their goodness or badness on an individual basis. Or good people who had to be standing too close to the bad people. Or people who were on the wrong side of a war, who might actually have been fairly good people if only they were more discerning on the subject of who they took orders from."

Yeah, honestly, he does tend to cause a lot of collateral damage sometimes.

"Like when?"

"Depending on what incident you're asking about, anything from two years ago to a few days ago."

Admittedly, most of them are from places Digger would never have heard of.

"Standing too close.. to bad people..?"

"I was bombarding cities from orbit. And yes, the people living in those cities were cannibals, but it's a little unfair to blame children for what their parents feed to them."

Ultimately, they would have been raised with the understanding that it's normal behaviour. And gone on to perpetuate it...

"…right. Cold didn't mention any o'this."

"Well, no. It's not like I go around boasting about the fact that I'm probably the second greatest killer in human history."

"Who's the greatest?"

And in most of his kills, he's performed the action personally, if remotely. Most killer world leaders of history couldn't manage that.

"Vandal Savage, because he's had tens of thousands of years to build up his total. At my current rate I won't equal that for a decade or so." I smile. "So about that P.R. work..?"

"Eh." He smiles nervously. "Never too late to learn new tricks, hey?"

Heh. I love the implication that he's been simply intimidated into doing what OL says just from the casual declaration of 'I've killed more people than nearly anyone on Earth'.

OL's not quite at the 'killed more people than cancer' tier yet, but he has been working with quantity over Vandal's quality. At least Digger is taking the hint about going straight. It'll be interesting to see where he ends up working, especially with OL importing a bunch of Thanagarian media soon. Imagine if he becomes the 'Agro Vation' of a new generation.

Duke Long · 2026-06-09T07:37:06+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"Bunch a' big breweries went unda. Can't get the raw materials to their big breweries. Places like this either brew their own or get it from micro breweries. Or both."

Is the repetition of 'big breweries' deliberate?

Mr Zoat said:
"Well I'm not going to be fixing the arctic anytime soon, am I? And I'm not dumb enough to pick a fight with Flasher when the world's collapsing."

'Arctic'

Mr Zoat said:
"Though you were all about real names."

'Thought'

Edit: Thinking of the Ancestor last chapter, did we ever get a conclusion to the H'v'ler'ni plot? I only remember there being two chapters, with the second ending with them starting to think about what they're supposed to do about the problem.

Z000 · 2026-06-09T07:38:49+0100

Khettien said:
I've always thought it was kind of funny how the definition of hero changed from a brutal killer of men and beasts into someone who refuses to kill.

I get it. But it's still weird.

basically 2 Hero type nowaday

Modern: shoulder the responsibility, doing the right thing, no kill, let the law do it job , be the bigger man and all that

Mythical: do big legendary thing (does not make them good thing), slain great monster (does not matter if it for glory or defense of other), become King of a plot of dirt and rule well (subjective as how do you define such a thing)

Mr Zoat · 2026-06-09T08:35:12+0100

Darko said:
"frowns"

Duke Long said:
Is the repetition of 'big breweries' deliberate?
'Arctic'
'Thought'

Thank you, corrected.

Edit: Thinking of the Ancestor last chapter, did we ever get a conclusion to the H'v'ler'ni plot? I only remember there being two chapters, with the second ending with them starting to think about what they're supposed to do about the problem.

Ah, remind me?

Duke Long · 2026-06-09T08:58:52+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Ah, remind me?

At the behest of the Ancestor, Native Americans have been watching over an underground city of an ancient people called the H'v'ler'ni, who were dying of disease and so either fled Earth or transferred themselves into a giant robot.

The Natives recruit Bat Lash and Scalphunter to help them because Arkady Duvall has become aware that there's something special in their land, and they're worried that the robot is going to get woken up by invading white men.

Edit: Occurred to me that I should link. The second chapter is right after the first.

Mr Zoat said:
January 8th, 1857
Midday

Chaoswind · 2026-06-09T12:10:42+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
where he ends up working, especially with OL importing a bunch of Thanagarian media soon.

That deal probably fell through. He only got that authorization after he was already committed to the mission due to the attempt on his life and just hours later he had already blew up a Thanagarian admiral and forced them to sign a "peace" treaty without realizing they had lost multiple worlds.

At that point Thanagar isn't going to give him the license for anything, hence why I think he is trying to get captain boomerang back into the entertainment industry on a larger scale that doing trickshots for "league" coins in the park.

Honestly Paul already has a mega game about the largest allied non hostile polity to sol coming out of the pipeline, so all he needs its to distribute gaming consoles powerful enough to run it and get the people of Vega interested enough to visit sol (earth and mars), the Kryptonian colonist in 2814 and Abin Sur's planet.

Paul could get a sub organization of the dark stars running locally with Jade at its head just by recruiting a few random people from the local species of 2814 (Mars, Earth, New Krypton, Ungara), then thet can join the Vega alliance as junior members and that should keep Thanagar away.

Neruz · 2026-06-09T12:16:27+0100

Vandal Savage probably hasn't actually killed that many people; he's about 52,000 years old, and if we assume he killed one person every day of his life, which I think is probably on the high side of estimates, then he's killed just shy of 19 million people.

Orbital bombardment of half a dozen to a dozen major cities on an Earth-like world and you'll have probably exceeded Savage's total. On a more densely populated world, or if you target the largest cities on Earth, and you could exceed him with just one city destroyed.

Tzeentch · 2026-06-09T13:01:35+0100

Mr Zoat said:
TA: I suppose there's still a division of responsibilities-. Sorry, it's just that I've been… Interested in the Ancestor for.. most of my life. Finding out that there are people who actually know him-.

Ha! Besides the Amazons, there's also all the other immortals out there who likely know Paul.

Vandar Adg/Vandal Savage, Thessaly, Nimue/Madam Xanadu, Jebediah of Canaan/The Wizard, Klarn Arg/Immortal Man, Richard Swift/The Shade, Doctor Gotham....

Duke Long · 2026-06-09T13:05:08+0100

Neruz said:
Vandal Savage probably hasn't actually killed that many people; he's about 52,000 years old, and if we assume he killed one person every day of his life, which I think is probably on the high side of estimates, then he's killed just shy of 19 million people.

Orbital bombardment of half a dozen to a dozen major cities on an Earth-like world and you'll have probably exceeded Savage's total. On a more densely populated world, or if you target the largest cities on Earth, and you could exceed him with just one city destroyed.

No comment on how many Vandal Savage has killed, but when it comes to the bombardment I think it was clarified that Oh El wasn't wiping them off the map and actually aimed for industrial and military installations. IIRC he said something about how his bombing would be seen as a joke by Arthur Harris, whose bombing campaign caused, from what I can see, less than one million deaths.

Steelplaza · 2026-06-09T13:11:49+0100

I always thought Harkness probably has more tech skills than he likes to show off. Less "super science" and more "super design", an intuitive sense for how to integrate all sorts of stuff into his boomerangs without throwing off the balance. There's probably ways to parlay that into something useful.

Mr Zoat · 2026-06-09T13:31:43+0100

Tzeentch said:
Richard Swift/The Shade

Richard Swift is only a few hundred years old.

Neruz · 2026-06-09T14:22:51+0100

Duke Long said:
No comment on how many Vandal Savage has killed, but when it comes to the bombardment I think it was clarified that Oh El wasn't wiping them off the map and actually aimed for industrial and military installations. IIRC he said something about how his bombing would be seen as a joke by Arthur Harris, whose bombing campaign caused, from what I can see, less than one million deaths.

My point is more that Savage hasn't really killed that many people, and since OL is already well into the multi-millions it's probably going to be much less than 10 years before he overtakes even the most generous estimation of Savage's count.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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