With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Really, outside of the 'telepathically restore memories' angle, it wouldn't be that much more complex legally than spectacles or hearing aids, would it?

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Ehh, this is a device that links to the persons brain, not something that's just worn over the body.

A bad pair of glasses can further damage eyesight, and a faulty hearing aid can make you uncomfortable, but this thing could potentially melt someone's brain.

Yeah, that sort of instant justice thing isn't really compatible with modern governance

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Especially since a lot of people break the law in various ways every single day and they don't even know about it.

Seriously, some laws can be extremely complex and convoluted, to the point that it's impossible to even enforce them, so most law enforcement groups don't, both because it's virtually impossible to know if they're happening and because they're harmless.

In some places it's not unusual for some sex positions to be considered illegal.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Still not up to date with the thread yet but noticed this inconsistency.

But he should have blue eyes with white sclera now.

Edit: and this section makes sense if he has black sclera, but not if he doesn't.

And the beginning section of this chapter doesn't match at all. Might be easier to just retcon him to always having black sclera, I recall a previous instance of it being mentioned that Jor-El was trying to make them normal, but I guess that part doesn't need to be changed.

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Eh-h...

Which is less of a pain to rewrite?

Honestly, him still having black eyes doesn't make sense, but I prefer him looking like that. I'll change the old version.

"See if"
Add a space between the paragraphs.

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Also, that should say 'lose'.

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Thank you, corrected.

You'd have to balance it with compassion for best results, otherwise it'd automatically come down on the letter of the laws regardless of circumstance or intent.

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The nice thing about America is that they have a lot of writing contemporary to the period where the constitution was written. They don't need to guess intent: the people who wrote it were pretty clear, even when the phrasing that went into the actual document is a bit unclear.

 

[boo600]

Yeah, given how many anti-minority laws are still on the books, having a demon/non-sapient elemental would just lead to a lot of dead black/gay/trans people. And then there's the 'overly complicated legal code for tax purposes' issue, the minor laws people break every day that don't hurt anyone…

It's a bad idea.

The anti-corruption thing, though… well. That's pretty damn necessary. It fights Boss Smiley, hopefully weakens him a little, and while bad actors will work to exploit any system put in place, having something a little better than 'we can choose our own salary! And decide what bribes we take are illegal or not, and also we can sleep on the job as much as we want, or leave it at will' would be… nice.

Magically binding oaths of intent to serve would be phenomenal, though I'd want something in there that accounts for life not being a zero-sum game; it would be terrible if a senator felt compelled to screw over another state because their state minority benefitted from something causing… let's say pollution, for a generic issue. (Though the problem with corporations being able to lobby both sides is, of course, that they're doing that already for whatever the corporations want in a lot of places, and have for decades).

 

[Khettien]

"No. I don't. What is it you want?"

"I want to make sure that there aren't any shenanigans in-"

He splutter-laughs.

"-volved-. What?"

"This is Washington, Orange Lantern. 'Shenanigans' are how it works."

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OL - "That sounds like a challenge. Don't threaten me with a good time!"

 

[PepeTheFrog]

"Ah… I don't think there's a plan for that, but it would probably… Start with magically binding oaths of office, minutes for all meetings with lobbyists…" Huh. "You know, there's a type of demon you can bind to a menhir who will teleport to anyone who breaks the law within the city and then stab them to death. Ah, insider trading would be illegal for politicians, obviously-."

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I know I have read a fic where this plotline happened but for the life of me I can't remember it.

 

[Darko]

I know I have read a fic where this plotline happened but for the life of me I can't remember it.

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I think you're thinking about The Dark Shard: Enemy of the Light.

It was on SpaceBattles and it was written by theirishdreamer.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Yeah, given how many anti-minority laws are still on the books, having a demon/non-sapient elemental would just lead to a lot of dead black/gay/trans people. And then there's the 'overly complicated legal code for tax purposes' issue, the minor laws people break every day that don't hurt anyone…

It's a bad idea.

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I suspect that my views on the subject may divert somewhat from yours, but since I don't want to get thrown off another site, I'll leave it there.

The anti-corruption thing, though… well. That's pretty damn necessary. It fights Boss Smiley, hopefully weakens him a little, and while bad actors will work to exploit any system put in place, having something a little better than 'we can choose our own salary! And decide what bribes we take are illegal or not, and also we can sleep on the job as much as we want, or leave it at will' would be… nice.

Magically binding oaths of intent to serve would be phenomenal, though I'd want something in there that accounts for life not being a zero-sum game; it would be terrible if a senator felt compelled to screw over another state because their state minority benefitted from something causing… let's say pollution, for a generic issue. (Though the problem with corporations being able to lobby both sides is, of course, that they're doing that already for whatever the corporations want in a lot of places, and have for decades).

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Being asleep on the job isn't a problem. If a given elected representative doesn't do enough work, it's the job of their electors to pick someone else. At most, magical anti-corruption would compel them to be open and honest about what they actually did to improve the information their electors have access to.

Screwing over other states is a bad idea, but elected representatives are supposed to advance the interests of their constituents. Voting is the mechanism that a democracy employs to resolve conflicting claims.

 

[NightmareWarden]

I know I have read a fic where this plotline happened but for the life of me I can't remember it.

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Chairtastic wrote the country of Roam in Fate of all Fools? Young Justice. https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/fate-of-all-fools-yj-sandman-si.119631/#post-28389834

 

[iamnuff]

He's 100% fucking with the guy.

 

[Steelplaza]

"Ah… I don't think there's a plan for that, but it would probably… Start with magically binding oaths of office, minutes for all meetings with lobbyists…" Huh. "You know, there's a type of demon you can bind to a menhir who will teleport to anyone who breaks the law within the city and then stab them to death. Ah, insider trading would be illegal for politicians, obviously-."

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The trouble with politics is that the same qualities that give you corruption also give you the flexible pragmatic politicians who aren't married to any particular approach and try to balance competing interests. The trouble with politics is that the same qualities that give you grim inflexible ideologues determined to push through their deeply held beliefs also gives you people of virtue and principle with a deeply compelling vision for the future that serves as their north star.

The trouble with politics is that the more benefits to the office (both financial and prestige) the more people there are who are in it only to benefit themselves. The trouble with politics is that the less benefits there are to the office (no opportunities to make money, people don't regard it as prestigious) the more people there are who do it only because they have a deeply held vision for society that will brook no compromises or corrections.

It's like how Green Arrow doesn't want to spend his life doing boring corporate boardroom work when he could wear a cool costume and punch people in the face while retaining the moral and social high ground. If the SI wants to impose binding magical oaths and limit any opportunities to benefit maybe he should also give some thoughts to adding "make it fun and appealing to competent people" benefits. Free interstellar vacations for all Senators!

 

[Jankl]

Grayven has traveled to a lot of different universes, we saw him in the Doctor Who universe, the DCEU and My Little Pony, but I wonder how he would do in the Warhammer 40k universe. If he ever found it he would probably just ignore it since I doubt it would be worth the effort. But I am curious as to how New god magic would interact with the Warp.

 

[McGraww]

I think magically binding oaths of office would be fine as long as they work on intent and not strict letter of law. That would theoretically let congresspeople not extract every single ounce of benefit for their state possible, if it meant broader support for the country as a whole or ensured long-term cooperation between states.

Honestly though, I feel like you could get pretty strong benefits with basically no drawback if you just dropped a Zone of Truth on the whole capital. (The version where you can refuse to answer, so you aren't forced to disclose classified information.)

 

[Kencord]

Math is mathing.

Beard Theory + Minbari Murder Reaction = Reason For Secrecy.

If it was publicized that the Minbari were killing beings that might be equitable to other minbari, and the last reaction to a accidental murder was suicide in penance, then the reaction to a full scale war against 'other minbari' would be disastrous.

Pursuing the war would be dangerous if anyone else came to the same conclusion. Getting the data and continuing the conflict, if it ever came out, would be politically disastrous even if it wasn't culturally unthinkable. Explaining what happened would be just as bad as continuing to pursue war.

 

[teikan]

I look at the other Lex Luthor sitting on the seat facing the doorway. Then I scan both the newcomer and mine.
And then I grin.
"Lex! It's not my birthday!"

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Hooray, Luther interactions! I've long imagined three or four versions of them meeting, during a typical scene where their security measures, aimed at each other, unexpectedly come in handy against a common enemy...With a twist that one or the majority did not have such measures and they completely trusted others.

P.s. wdm most of their interactions was left behind the scenes!?

 

[BR549]

Math is mathing.

Beard Theory + Minbari Murder Reaction = Reason For Secrecy.

If it was publicized that the Minbari were killing beings that might be equitable to other minbari, and the last reaction to a accidental murder was suicide in penance, then the reaction to a full scale war against 'other minbari' would be disastrous.

Pursuing the war would be dangerous if anyone else came to the same conclusion. Getting the data and continuing the conflict, if it ever came out, would be politically disastrous even if it wasn't culturally unthinkable. Explaining what happened would be just as bad as continuing to pursue war.

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To be fair, coming to that conclusion, in the absence of '...why did they stop the war??', would pretty much require the Triluminary lighting up; after all, they did have a thousand years to ask 'why do those of Valen's descent sometimes grow beards?' and 'because he was the Minbari not born of Minbar' seems to have always been answer enough. And since the Triluminary (a) is a relic of the Grey Council and (b) actually works by reading the genetic pattern of Sinclair/Valen, that would be rather unlikely outside of the specific circumstances that it did.

...but that is pretty much exactly why the actual reason for the sudden about-face was never intended to make it outside of that room aboard Valen'tha, yes.

 

[balor64]

She draws herself up slightly. "The I will be the first."

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The -> Then

 

[Kencord]

To be fair, coming to that conclusion, in the absence of '...why did they stop the war??', would pretty much require the Triluminary lighting up; after all, they did have a thousand years to ask 'why do those of Valen's descent sometimes grow beards?' and 'because he was the Minbari not born of Minbar' seems to have always been answer enough. And since the Triluminary (a) is a relic of the Grey Council and (b) actually works by reading the genetic pattern of Sinclair/Valen, that would be rather unlikely outside of the specific circumstances that it did.

...but that is pretty much exactly why the actual reason for the sudden about-face was never intended to make it outside of that room aboard Valen'tha, yes.

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Cool. Didn't know anything about the series, that one slipped me by. Just did the math with the given data.

 

[Signaller]

"Ooh! We could replace the supreme court with an elemental of pure law bound to the constitution! No more political influence at all. It wouldn't even have to be sentient. But that's-" I shake my head. "-probably a terrible idea."

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What's Kilderkin up to these days (since that worked /so/ well last time).

[QUOTE="Mr Zoat, post: 13708087, member: 12669]"You do know I work for Lex Luthor?"
[/QUOTE]
That could almost be an admission of some sort of skulduggery.

 

[Mr Zoat]

The -> Then

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Mr Zoat]

10th April 2258
10:38 G.M.T. +1

This is a bad idea, this is a bad idea, this is a bad idea.

It will be a critical learning experience.

Kral'nag, there's a good chance that someone is going to try to kill her.

If they fail, it will be a learning experience for her. If they succeed, it will be one for you.

I look across the campus as more people with various anti-alien banners gather in the campus square. There are police around, but nothing like enough to actually contain a riot.

What do you suggest, then?

Remove her to your ship.

While the idea does have a certain appeal, I don't mind doing a little extra work if it makes her happy.

Just change what makes her happy.

I open my eyes to the crowd's desires, marking those whose drive for violence is a little sharper.

That's quite difficult. I'm not even familiar enough with the human brain to do that to a member of my own species. Alien brains are far harder.

My people could help with that. You would need to make a show of strength to convince them of your worth, but we have employed both willing and unwilling agents amongst other species before.

That would defeat the object.

Your lust for her is clear to all of us. She will never consent to mate with you as she is now. You are stronger. Take what you want.

If I wanted a sex doll then I'd buy one. Or build one. It's a big universe, and I've only known her for a few days. There are plenty of human-compatible women out there. What do drakh females look like?

Our mating requires telepathy. And while it is not inconceivable that one of us would mate with you, as you are now… No. Not until you have grown closer to the Black Sun.

They look like armour plated narns. It would chafe.

Heathen.

I glance back towards the lecture hall. Mayan is talking to the university officials… Double check… Yes, no hostile desires I can see. But I wasn't expecting them to be-.

Hm. Check the faces of the protestors against the faces of enrolled university students… Basically no overlap. Not too surprised there. Alright, so the people taking the lecture will be students, staff, or people who've received an invitation. Few points of ingress, and they're guarded. I'll be monitoring the whole place while she's talking, but the security isn't… Terrible, as far as my inexpert eyes can tell.

I turn back to the crowd… The ones I marked are grouping together. There's a terrorist group called Homeguard who have been carrying out attacks on aliens in human-controlled space, which is… Stupid. Most human colonies are relatively small and have populations which are completely human. Aliens only live in significant numbers in major cities on Earth, and one or two other places. I mean, I get why people hate minbari, but we've actually had pretty good relationships with everyone except them and the vree.

Perhaps I should just ask them?

You could just change their minds.

Yes, that's the-. No, I'm not mind controlling them.

Thralls are much easier to deal with. Most drakh are thralls.

Really?

What proportion of your species really need to be capable of higher reasoning?

The more people working at cross-purposes, the more chaos, the more chance of randomly generating good ideas and useful methodologies.

Drakh value strife and tests of strength, we don't seek to become a chaotic mess.

Well, no. Your ideas and our ideas will compete, and someone will win. If we were all the same, we'd both be working for the vorlons.

...

He just threw up.

Ew-! Guys-. No throwing up in my brain!

Alright, eurgh. Move.

I appear close to the prospective shooters, just out of line of sight. Given that I'm basically invincible to anything they might be able to do, this isn't a test of my courage, just my social anxiety.

I step out of cover with a broad smile. "Excuse me, gentlemen!"

I get a brief glance, and then the man with short-cropped brown hair nods towards a stand. "You can get a banner from Pierre."

"I'm not here for a banner. I'd like you to explain to me what this is about."

They're giving me a slightly more serious looks now. "You from the university?"

"No. The past. I've essentially been in suspended animation for two hundred years. This whole thing-" I gesture to the protest. "-means as much to me as the Gulf War does to you. You three appear to be the organisers, so I imagine you'd be able to explain it to me best."

The slightly older man frown. "Did they have-? Cryo, two hundred years ago?"

"My best guess is it was the vree, so I'm not, like, wholly hostile to this? But I would like a better understanding of… What this particular movement involves..?"

The younger one squints at me. "Gulf..? War..?"

"Ah… Short version. Iraq invaded Kuwait, overran it, then got most of its army killed when the United States took exception and counter-invaded. In military terms it was fairly simple, but between the botched peace settlement which basically solved nothing and Iraq's dictator really not appreciating how weak his position was and constantly pissing off everyone around him, it pretty much inevitably lead to the Second Gulf War."

He looks blank. Right, a random war from two hundred years ago would mean about as much to him as… Uh… Right.

Short hair nods. "Alright. Ten years ago a species of insane murderers tried to wipe out our species because they attacked a diplomatic mission. Before that, we got stuck defending a bunch of worlds from an enemy they could have easily beat if they didn't have their heads up their asses. And now the homeworld of humanity has aliens living here, owning parts of our world and voting in our elections. And they wouldn't reciprocate even if we actually wanted them too. Minbari are psychos, centauri would try and conquer us if their government was drunk off its ass, narns are savages and-. You aren't the only guy the vree kidnapped. Humanity should close its boarders, industrialise its colonies, and strengthen its military. It should not have bases all across the League of Non-Functional Worlds, trade agreements to get things we should be making ourselves or trying to set up some kind of… 'Space U.N.', that no one takes seriously." He shakes his head. "When three space stations blow up and the fourth one just vanishes into thin space, God is trying to tell you something."

"What about trading for things we can't make ourselves? The primary weapons-."

"We tried buying artificial gravity once. Paid through the nose, and then our best scientists couldn't make sense of it. Billions of credits completely wasted. If it's technology, we should learn to do it for ourselves. If it's raw materials, we should mine it for ourselves. The weapons we bought from the narns during the war? Yeah, okay, we were desperate. That's the only time I'd support it. We still got ripped off."

"Alright." I nod. "And what's this protest.. for?"

"We're protesting a minbari poet."

"Okay. Why?"

He shakes his head in mystification. "Because why the fuck is she here? I don't want anyone from the species that tried to exterminate my entire species on my planet. I certainly don't think there's anything in a culture that thinks like they do that we need. And the talks about.. the.. universality of love? Where was that universality ten years ago when they all went nuts? Was she the only one who wasn't mental? I doubt it. No, I think she's here as some sort of psy-op, and it pisses me off."

"Maybe she's just dumb and sheltered?"

"So at best she was still okay with the human race ending? Yeah, that still pisses me off. She shouldn't have got a visa, and they shouldn't be hosting her."

"Okay." I nod. "That's… Very helpful."

"Yeah." He smiles. "We do actually think these things through. And you should think about what I've said."

"I will. Thank you."

 

[Darko]

There's a terrorist group called Homeguard who have been carrying out attacks on aliens in human-controlled space, which is… Stupid

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That's bigotry for you.

Perhaps I should just ask them?

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You're probably not going to like the answers.

appear closed to the prospective

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"close"

 

[McGraww]

He shakes his head in mystification. "Because why the fuck is she here? I don't want anyone from the species that tried to exterminate my entire species on my planet. I certainly don't think there's anything in a culture that thinks like they do that we need. And the talks about.. the.. universality of love? Where was that universality ten years ago when they all went nuts? Was she the only one who wasn't mental? I doubt it. No, I think she's here as some sort of psy-op, and it pisses me off."

"Maybe she's just dumb and sheltered?"

"So at best she was still okay with the human race ending? Yeah, that still pisses me off. She shouldn't have got a visa, and they shouldn't be hosting her."

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I mean.... he kind of has a point? I don't think he could know this for sure, but that seems to be an entirely accurate summation of her worldview. "The guys in charge decided to eliminate humanity, and it wasn't my place to criticize them."

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

10th April 2258
10:38 G.M.T. +1

This is a bad idea, this is a bad idea, this is a bad idea.

It will be a critical learning experience.

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Unfortunately, the best kind of those usually involves frantic running, swearing and explosions. So this will be perfect for a rookie Lantern looking to get some practice in.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Kral'nag, there's a good chance that someone is going to try to kill her.

If they fail, it will be a learning experience for her. If they succeed, it will be one for you.

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I suppose that's a sensible way to look at it. Not so great for whoever's on the losing side.

I look across the campus as more people with various anti-alien banners gather in the campus square. There are police around, but nothing like enough to actually contain a riot.

What do you suggest, then?

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I would hope there's additional forces enroute, given this little gathering can't have popped up that quickly. Or the local cops are playing hands-off...

Remove her to your ship.

While the idea does have a certain appeal, I don't mind doing a little extra work if it makes her happy.

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To be fair, she coudl still give her lecture from the ship. It'd be a little less spontaneous without the proximity of the audience, though.

Just change what makes her happy.

I open my eyes to the crowd's desires, marking those whose drive for violence is a little sharper.

Click to shrink...

At least he's making full use of all his current options.

That's quite difficult. I'm not even familiar enough with the human brain to do that to a member of my own species. Alien brains are far harder.

My people could help with that. You would need to make a show of strength to convince them of your worth, but we have employed both willing and unwilling agents amongst other species before.

That would defeat the object.

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...And the information gained would go right to the hands of the Shadows once they return.

Your lust for her is clear to all of us. She will never consent to mate with you as she is now. You are stronger. Take what you want.

If I wanted a sex doll then I'd buy one. Or build one. It's a big universe, and I've only known her for a few days. There are plenty of human-compatible women out there. What do drakh females look like?

Click to shrink...

There are motivations other than food, shelter and 'companionship', friend passenger.

Our mating requires telepathy. And while it is not inconceivable that one of us would mate with you, as you are now… No. Not until you have grown closer to the Black Sun.

They look like armour plated narns. It would chafe.

Click to shrink...

Sounds like someone has personal experience?

Heathen.

I glance back towards the lecture hall. Mayan is talking to the university officials… Double check… Yes, no hostile desires I can see. But I wasn't expecting them to be-.

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She's probably trying to calm their nerves and convince them to continue the event.

Hm. Check the faces of the protestors against the faces of enrolled university students… Basically no overlap. Not too surprised there. Alright, so the people taking the lecture will be students, staff, or people who've received an invitation. Few points of ingress, and they're guarded. I'll be monitoring the whole place while she's talking, but the security isn't… Terrible, as far as my inexpert eyes can tell.

Click to shrink...

So the folks outside are definitely outside agitators, not upset university students, for the most part...

I turn back to the crowd… The ones I marked are grouping together. There's a terrorist group called Homeguard who have been carrying out attacks on aliens in human-controlled space, which is… Stupid. Most human colonies are relatively small and have populations which are completely human. Aliens only live in significant numbers in major cities on Earth, and one or two other places. I mean, I get why people hate minbari, but we've actually had pretty good relationships with everyone except them and the vree.

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That's basically pissing on your own lawn to spite the neighbours... I suppose they think it'll help drive off the 'foreigners'.

Perhaps I should just ask them?

You could just change their minds.

Click to shrink...

Mind control is not the preferred choice here, dummy.

Yes, that's the-. No, I'm not mind controlling them.

Thralls are much easier to deal with. Most drakh are thralls.

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Yes, but if your people aren't used to thinking for themselves, things get much trickier during the times they end up having to.

Really?

What proportion of your species really need to be capable of higher reasoning?

Click to shrink...

Some would joke that most of them already aren't.

The more people working at cross-purposes, the more chaos, the more chance of randomly generating good ideas and useful methodologies.

Drakh value strife and tests of strength, we don't seek to become a chaotic mess.

Click to shrink...

Yes, and how well has your history gone, especially when the unexpected happens?

Well, no. Your ideas and our ideas will compete, and someone will win. If we were all the same, we'd both be working for the vorlons.

...

He just threw up.

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Well, that's an extreme response.

Ew-! Guys-. No throwing up in my brain!

Alright, eurgh. Move.

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I mean, it's not like there's even anything physical, is there? I'm guessing he gets to experience their post-puke senses the next time he has to interact with them.

I appear closed to the prospective shooters, just out of line of sight. Given that I'm basically invincible to anything they might be able to do, this isn't a test of my courage, just my social anxiety.

I step out of cover with a broad smile. "Excuse me, gentlemen!"

I get a brief glance, and then the man with short-cropped brown hair nods towards a stand. "You can get a banner from Pierre."

Click to shrink...

Ah, the true challenge of his nerves: talking to strangers.

"I'm not here for a banner. I'd like you to explain to me what this is about."

They're giving me a slightly more serious looks now. "You from the university?"

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I'm betting they're having annoyed thoughts about 'sheltered brats' right now.

"No. The past. I've essentially been in suspended animation for two hundred years. This whole thing-" I gesture to the protest. "-means as much to me as the Gulf War does to you. You three appear to be the organisers, so I imagine you'd be able to explain it to me best."

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And if they try anything, he'll be right there to stop them. So bonus.

The slightly older man frown. "Did they have-? Cryo, two hundred years ago?"

"My best guess is it was the vree, so I'm not, like, wholly hostile to this? But I would like a better understanding of… What this particular movement involves..?"

The younger one squints at me. "Gulf..? War..?"

Click to shrink...

Keeping his cover story in fine form. And getting to confuse potential threats as a benefit.

"Ah… Short version. Iraq invaded Kuwait, overran it, then got most of its army killed when the United States took exception and counter-invaded. In military terms it was fairly simple, but between the botched peace settlement which basically solved nothing and Iraq's dictator really not appreciating how weak his position was and constantly pissing off everyone around him, it pretty much inevitably lead to the Second Gulf War."

He looks blank. Right, a random war from two hundred years ago would mean about as much to him as… Uh… Right.

Click to shrink...

Nor the reasons for it, which boiled down to 'resources' in the form of globally-valuable oil-fields. Oil more than likely being a greatly deprecated resource in this era.

Short hair nods. "Alright. Ten years ago a species of insane murderers tried to wipe out our species because they attacked a diplomatic mission. Before that, we got stuck defending a bunch of worlds from an enemy they could have easily beat if they didn't have their heads up their asses. And now the homeworld of humanity has aliens living here, owning parts of our world and voting in our elections. And they wouldn't reciprocate even if we actually wanted them too. Minbari are psychos, centauri would try and conquer us if their government was drunk off its ass, narns are savages and-. You aren't the only guy the vree kidnapped. Humanity should close its boarders, industrialise its colonies, and strengthen its military. It should not have bases all across the League of Non-Functional Worlds, trade agreements to get things we should be making ourselves or trying to set up some kind of… 'Space U.N., that no one takes seriously.'" He shakes his head. "When three space stations blow up and the fourth one just vanishes into thin space, God is trying to tell you something."

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Well, the bias is thick. I see there's a lot of angry feelings in this 'Homeguard' association.

"What about trading for things we can't make ourselves? The primary weapons-."

"We tried buying artificial gravity once. Paid through the nose, and then our best scientists couldn't make sense of it. Billions of credits completely wasted. If it's technology, we should learn to do it for ourselves. If it's raw materials, we should mine it for ourselves. The weapons we bought from the narns during the war? Yeah, okay, we were desperate. That's the only time I'd support it. We still got ripped off."

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...So you'd rather have Humanity sit around vulnerable to everyone as we bang rocks together trying to work out the big physics questions and how to manipulate them? I appreciate the independent-mindedness, but there's a fine line between that and bullheadedness.

"Alright." I nod. "And what's this protest.. for?"

"We're protesting a minbari poet."

"Okay. Why?"

Click to shrink...

After all, it's a poet. If this was for a major official visiting, that would be reasonable. But this is a woman who writes good.

He shakes his head in mystification. "Because why the fuck is she here? I don't want anyone from the species that tried to exterminate my entire species on my planet. I certainly don't think there's anything in a culture that thinks like they do that we need. And the talks about.. the.. universality of love? Where was that universality ten years ago when they all went nuts? Was she the only one who wasn't mental? I doubt it. No, I think she's here as some sort of psy-op, and it pisses me off."

Click to shrink...

Ah, the paranoid type. Seeing the absolute worst in everything.

"Maybe she's just dumb and sheltered?"

"So at best she was still okay with the human race ending? Yeah, that still pisses me off. She shouldn't have got a visa, and they shouldn't be hosting her."

Click to shrink...

Well, at least seeing these guys get theirs will feel good, with all that motivation.

"Okay." I nod. "That's… Very helpful."

"Yeah." He smiles. "We do actually think these things through. And you should think about what I've said."

"I will. Thank you."

Click to shrink...

Sadly, he's not going to be drawing the conclusions the goons want...

While they might think they have good reasons, they're really going about this in the worst way possible. I suspect most of the races they're harassing don't give two flying fucks about them or their concerns unless one of their citizens gets injured, at which point the consequences come raining down...

 

[Mr Zoat]

"close"

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[BoML]

Okay...either he's stressing about the Psi Cop, or about Shaal Mayan's impeding lecture...

Spoiler: Spoilered for length

This is a bad idea, this is a bad idea, this is a bad idea.

It will be a critical learning experience.

Kral'nag, there's a good chance that someone is going to try to kill her.

If they fail, it will be a learning experience for her. If they succeed, it will be one for you.

Click to shrink...

The lecture, then. And...yeah, he's right to be stressing about it.

Your lust for her is clear to all of us. She will never consent to mate with you as she is now. You are stronger. Take what you want.

If I wanted a sex doll then I'd buy one. Or build one. It's a big universe, and I've only known her for a few days. There are plenty of human-compatible women out there. What do drakh females look like?

Click to shrink...

*sigh* Unfortunately, physical attraction is physical attraction. It's the ability to acknowledge and ignore it that's makes him a better person.

I turn back to the crowd… The ones I marked are grouping together. There's a terrorist group called Homeguard who have been carrying out attacks on aliens in human-controlled space, which is… Stupid. Most human colonies are relatively small and have populations which are completely human. Aliens only live in significant numbers in major cities on Earth, and one or two other places. I mean, I get why people hate minbari, but we've actually had pretty good relationships with everyone except them and the vree.

Perhaps I should just ask them?

Click to shrink...

You could. Depending on who you ask, you either get nonsense...or something resembling a point. We'll see...

You could just change their minds.

Yes, that's the-. No, I'm not mind controlling them.

Thralls are much easier to deal with. Most drakh are thralls.

Really?

Click to shrink...

Explains so much about their race, then. They're all in lockstep, whether the idea is good or bad.

Drakh value strife and tests of strength, we don't seek to become a chaotic mess.

Well, no. Your ideas and our ideas will compete, and someone will win. If we were all the same, we'd both be working for the vorlons.

...

He just threw up.

Ew-! Guys-. No throwing up in my brain!

Click to shrink...

*laughs* Oh, that was great. Now I want him do the same to the Drakh as a whole, maybe they'll commit mass suicide from the sheer indignity of it.

Short hair nods. "Alright. Ten years ago a species of insane murderers tried to wipe out our species because they attacked a diplomatic mission. Before that, we got stuck defending a bunch of worlds from an enemy they could have easily beat if they didn't have their heads up their asses. And now the homeworld of humanity has aliens living here, owning parts of our world and voting in our elections. And they wouldn't reciprocate even if we actually wanted them too. Minbari are psychos, centauri would try and conquer us if their government was drunk off its ass, narns are savages and-. You aren't the only guy the vree kidnapped. Humanity should close its boarders, industrialise its colonies, and strengthen its military. It should not have bases all across the League of Non-Functional Worlds, trade agreements to get things we should be making ourselves or trying to set up some kind of… 'Space U.N., that no one takes seriously.'" He shakes his head. "When three space stations blow up and the fourth one just vanishes into thin space, God is trying to tell you something."

"What about trading for things we can't make ourselves? The primary weapons-."

Click to shrink...

...I really don't want to say it, but he does have a point. The fact that they're being so stupid about the whole thing makes it worse, actually.

"We tried buying artificial gravity once. Paid through the nose, and then our best scientists couldn't make sense of it. Billions of credits completely wasted. If it's technology, we should learn to do it for ourselves. If it's raw materials, we should mine it for ourselves. The weapons we bought from the narns during the war? Yeah, okay, we were desperate. That's the only time I'd support it. We still got ripped off."

Click to shrink...

...who did they buy it from? Because I can see the Brakiri selling a functional unit, but leaving out the...you know, all the technical and theoretical ideas that make the thing work. Not sure about anyone else...other then them not even entertaining the idea at all.

He shakes his head in mystification. "Because why the fuck is she here? I don't want anyone from the species that tried to exterminate my entire species on my planet. I certainly don't think there's anything in a culture that thinks like they do that we need. And the talks about.. the.. universality of love? Where was that universality ten years ago when they all went nuts? Was she the only one who wasn't mental? I doubt it. No, I think she's here as some sort of psy-op, and it pisses me off."

Click to shrink...

...again, I hate that he has a point. Unfortunately for him, Shaal Mayan is completely genuine...and that's likely to piss this guy off even more.

"So at best she was still okay with the human race ending? Yeah, that still pisses me off. She shouldn't have got a visa, and they shouldn't be hosting her."

"Okay." I nod. "That's… Very helpful."

"Yeah." He smiles. "We do actually think these things through. And you should think about what I've said."

"I will. Thank you."

Click to shrink...

An enlightening conversation, but doesn't really change the fact that some Homeguard goons are going to get stomped hard during this event.

If nothing else, Babylon!Paul is going to be making waves if the whole thing blows up. It didn't in the series, as Mayan finished the trip with nothing of notable happening. I guess Homeguard getting a lot of their members arrested on B5 had an impact in curtailing their bigotry a little.

 

[SolarIncursion]

Okay...either he's stressing about the Psi Cop, or about Shaal Mayan's impeding lecture...

Click to shrink...

Seeing as the sentence directly after Kral'nag's comment iterates his worry about her getting shot, it's probably the second one.

Edit: I didn't read your expanded commentary when I wrote this, so ignore me

 

[PeriodicPedant]

This Babylon 5 branch has been fun. Looking forward to the rest of it.

What proportion of your species really need to be capable of higher reasoning?

The more people working at cross-purposes, the more chaos, the more chance of randomly generating good ideas and useful methodologies.

Drakh value strife and tests of strength, we don't seek to become a chaotic mess.

Well, no. Your ideas and our ideas will compete, and someone will win. If we were all the same, we'd both be working for the vorlons.

...

He just threw up.

Click to shrink...

Literally lol-ed.

 

[BR549]

...who did they buy it from? Because I can see the Brakiri selling a functional unit, but leaving out the...you know, all the technical and theoretical ideas that make the thing work. Not sure about anyone else...other then them not even entertaining the idea at all.

Click to shrink...

It was the Vree, and IIRC it boiled down to 'the technology was simply that alien'.
(Given the Vree are Basically Grays, they were probably the worst choice to try and buy it from.)

centauri would try and conquer us if their government was drunk off its ass,

Click to shrink...

'wasn't'

And, well. He's not exactly wrong there.

Humanity should close its boarders,

Click to shrink...

'borders'

As with so many of these sort, the underlying motivations aren't entirely unfounded, but the reactions went entirely widdershins to the rails somewhere along the line...

 

[WereDragon]

Drakh value strife and tests of strength, we don't seek to become a chaotic mess.

Well, no. Your ideas and our ideas will compete, and someone will win. If we were all the same, we'd both be working for the vorlons.

...

He just threw up.

Click to shrink...

Thus the writhing apparition from beyond the veil spoke. And in my madness, I understood it.

 

[BoML]

It was the Vree, and IIRC it boiled down to 'the technology was simply that alien'.
(Given the Vree are Basically Grays, they were probably the worst choice to try and buy it from.)

Click to shrink...

Spoiler: Picard double facepalm

I...have no words for this...