[RWBY] RWBY Shorts

[GraveyardShift]

CRITICAL UPDATE

The madlad is back with an update to an old classic.

And no your ears do not deceive you about the soundtrack midway through which is why I am directing people to it. It IS relevant.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Cv8DbygpA

 

[zMADLAXz]

CRITICAL UPDATE

The madlad is back with an update to an old classic.

And no your ears do not deceive you about the soundtrack midway through which is why I am directing people to it. It IS relevant.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Cv8DbygpA

Click to shrink...

I was surprised when he used Red like roses. Especially when the yellow Dragon guy(I forgot his name) went on the offensive

 

[zMADLAXz]

Last post.

Click to shrink...

Grave, I wanna let you know, that Jacques Chud will forever remain in the hearts of my discord connections.

Thank you for your service Sir.

 

[Gur40]

Sienna though she could guide Adam but Ghira and Kali knew he would either live as a protector or monster, black and white insanity at it's finest

Spoiler: Adam pov

like Buddy from the Incredibles man remembers things differently then how they happened, only wish Tyrian could have deconstructed him

---

wrong target buddy

Spoiler: from horror to comedy

Vale they don't even realise a killer was after them, Mistral they're reacting to Qrow cooking and Atlas they're investigating Tyrian who does not appreciate competition

---

i think they were friends

Spoiler: psycopath and sociopath

kinda like Hisoka and illumi from HxH

---

Pyrrha x Jaune Comic collection

Spoiler: just fun

some fan comic some offical

---

AU? Cosplay or Parrallel world?

Spoiler: FF XVI

---

Early RWBY

Spoiler: plots

honestly cared more about the character arcs then the lore early on an just wanted monster hunter high school shenanigans were class could do the world building but NOO had to go full grim dark into stupid
but the game revealing how BROKEN Jaune semblance is

Spoiler: Trained Jaune

MariusVibius • 3y ago
Jaune: I just wish I had some kind of range technique...

Blake: You have a lot of aura, why don't you try aura slashes?

Jaune: Aura what?

Blake: Aura slashes? You know, you cut with your weapon and in travels in the air?

Yang: Blake, what are you talking about?

Blake: What? I did it against the paladin!

Ruby: No way! I would remember something cool like that!

Weiss: You must have dream it.

Blake: But... but...

Meanwhile

Nora: hey Ren! Why is it you don't use those aura techniques anymore?

Ren: Aura what?

Solbuster • 3y ago • Edited 3y ago

Blake: But... I did use it! Right after you used Time Dilation on me, Weiss!

Weiss: Time what?

Blake: You can't be serious. That one glyph that brings you up to the incredible speed?

Weiss: Doesn't ring a bell

Yang: Are you sure you didn't make it up?

Ruby: Yeah, besides if Weiss had something like that, why wouldn't she use it? It'd be such useful skill

Blake.exe stopped working

omin44 • 3y ago
jaune pats her shoulder in sympathy

Jaune: I understand your pain, ren doesn't do the aura techniques that makes Grimm's heads explode and Nora's semblance has become a deus ex machina instead of incorporating it into her fighting style.

Weiss: what are you two talking about? We've never been able to any of that.

Jaune: ignoring RWY do you think you can teach me?

Blake: I can but I'm a bit rusty.

MariusVibius • 3y ago
Jaune: Rusty... Really, Blake?

Yang with a smile: I am proud of you, babe

omin44 • 3y ago
Blake: …oh brother gods. covers her face in embarrassment I don't mean it like that, I meant it was a long time since I use the move and I might not be as good at it anymore.

Ren and ACE OPS didn't try to teach the guy that he they just taught to have LITERAL infinite Aura the head exploding punches?

---

Real Crime Lords would have shut down Cinder and Adam easy

Spoiler: real bum

if Junior had reported to the Spiders the shit Roman had been doing before he was caught and the Neo was still loose the Fall wouldn't have happened because in the boardgame and The Grimm Campaign it;s confirmed the criminal underworld is aware magic is real and about the grimm cult ie Salem faction and that the headmasters are all working together aka the circle aka Ozluminati so what if?

 

[zMADLAXz]

and ACE OPS didn't try to teach the guy that he they just taught to have LITERAL infinite Aura the head exploding punches?

Click to shrink...

Vine did say to try and Extend his Aura.

And he ended up dead.

Hmmmmmm, I feel as though there is a connection between the facts.

 

[GraveyardShift]

I don't.

He literally sealed himself inside with the bomb when it exploded when he could have very easily just done it outside, achieved the same effect, and lived.

And less we forget, even THAT would not have been necessary if Harriet didn't have a Boondocks 'Woman' moment and went off the rails with a WMD intending to use it for active line combat rather than the whale as was originally planned.

 

[digcat]

Everything i know about her makes me wonder why they would trust her with any kind of power.

 

[AndrewJTalon]

God, the more you watch it the more stupid shit you find. It's so demoralizing.

Honestly I just want to make my own RWBY novel series that's changed just enough to not get sued and using all this worldbuilding.

 

[GraveyardShift]

Speaking of, Temporal Waifu War has been rescued and moved to its new home.

As a result, I'mma sleep first and then get to work on the conclusion.

 

[zMADLAXz]

I don't.

He literally sealed himself inside with the bomb when it exploded when he could have very easily just done it outside, achieved the same effect, and lived.

And less we forget, even THAT would not have been necessary if Harriet didn't have a Boondocks 'Woman' moment and went off the rails with a WMD intending to use it for active line combat rather than the whale as was originally planned.

Click to shrink...

Ummm I was more joking that anyone who tries and gives rational advice ends up incapacitated or dead.

 

[Sliverhero]

God, the more you watch it the more stupid shit you find. It's so demoralizing.

Honestly I just want to make my own RWBY novel series that's changed just enough to not get sued and using all this worldbuilding.

Click to shrink...

gender flip the cast or swap weapons and hair colour.

 

[GraveyardShift]

The subject of Yang being protective of Ruby is oft talked about and used quite a bit in fiction.

But what few people DON'T often talk about is the 'protective little sibling'.

The closest we've gotten so far is Homophobic Ruby but what if we crank this up a level?

Yang was very hurt that Blake left her in volume 3. Ruby was a direct witness to how hurt and broken she was.

So when Blake returns in volume five... how terrifying does Ruby become to Blake in this moment?

Ruby standing over Blake who was dragged before her by the remnants of JNR. A dark scowl on her face. "You hurt... my sister... in what world do you think I would give your relationship MY blessing BLAKE?"

 

[digcat]

I could see it after all not only was Yang hurt by her running away but she lost a arm to protect her. It would take along time for Ruby to trust her again.

 

[AndrewJTalon]

The subject of Yang being protective of Ruby is oft talked about and used quite a bit in fiction.

But what few people DON'T often talk about is the 'protective little sibling'.

The closest we've gotten so far is Homophobic Ruby but what if we crank this up a level?

Yang was very hurt that Blake left her in volume 3. Ruby was a direct witness to how hurt and broken she was.

So when Blake returns in volume five... how terrifying does Ruby become to Blake in this moment?

Ruby standing over Blake who was dragged before her by the remnants of JNR. A dark scowl on her face. "You hurt... my sister... in what world do you think I would give your relationship MY blessing BLAKE?"

Click to shrink...

Hell, she invites Sun along on the trip and makes it clear to Blake she has to earn her trust back. Period.

It should have been Yang and Blake slowly learning to trust eachother again AS FRIENDS. But no, homosexual exceptionalism all the way.

Why do you think I go with Yang getting hacked by Watts to explain why she became so unlike herself?

At least Yang can have an excuse for how she acted. Blake has no such luxury.

 

[Frankly Tired]

Strawberry Maintenance
~~~~~~
It's Weapon Maintenance Day in Beacon!

All students who pass examination are exempt from their next class (Combat Class is Mandatory)
As a bonus, Students who pass are allowed 1 free Strawberry Milkshake in the courtyard.

Please thank Head Chef Boid R. Tea for providing the Milkshakes.
~~~~~~~

Ruby is having a crisis.

as her code as an Engineer dictates, she MUST do a 110% thorough cleaning of Crescent Rose!
That has always taken 12 hours of the day...

...But Strawberry Milkshake...

No!
She must persevere!
Her baby must be polished and oiled to perfection!
~~~~~~
All the Cold Weapon students got their milkshakes first.

Jaune lords it over Ruby.

She may have "accidentally" fired off a round into his milkshake, exploding the contents into his face.

Half of the exploded contents landed on Crescent's Inner workings.

Ruby has to start over...
~~~~~~
Pyrrha tried to offer a Split Straw couples milkshake, but fumbled and drank from both ends when Jaune asked why she had one.

She drank too fast in her panic, and choked.

Jaune pats her back as she coughs up strawberries.

physical contact!

it's a win.
~~~~~
Nora spilt her Couples Not-Together Together, but Together Milkshake.

Ren offers to share his normal milkshake.

He even offered to use the Split straw as a way to share.

Nora drinks it all in a panic.

~~~~~~
Yang doesn't like strawberries, planned to save it for Ruby.

but someone touched her hair by accident as they were both leaving, and it melted in her hand.

"I'm sure Strawberry milk is just as fine," She stares at the semi boiling mass in her surprisingly durable cup, "Ruby probably can't even tell the difference."

Unfortunately, she placed it down when she was called to do something

Someone saw a melted milkshake, and dumped it.
~~~~~~
Despite her Stereotypes demanding that milk must be consumed.

Blake is lactose intolerant.
Also she's allergic to strawberries.

But the milk.
It's calling to her.

And so were the paramedics.
As she lies there, foaming at the mouth.
~~~~~~
Weiss wasn't much of a fan of Milkshakes.
She instead wanted Strawberry ice cream.

So she froze it.

Happily, she took a bite.

Oh right.

She hates strawberries.

Disgusted, she left the Surprisingly Durable Cup on Ruby's desk as she was working.
~~~~~~
Well...

It had some ice chunks in it (Weiss how?)

But after 16 hours, it did melt into a decent, milkshake like, consistency.

*Crunch*

Could do without the frozen strawberries though.
Why are the stems still on them? (Weiss how?)

 

[Frankly Tired]

Ironwood Takes a Vacation
~~~~~~
Prompt:
James Ironwood takes a vacation. He has no idea where to even start, but Qrow and Taiyang are there to help!

~~~~~~
James placed a hand on the last STRQ member's shoulders.

"Qrow, Mr. Xiao Long, I have experienced many new and wild things this past few weeks. You two have allowed me to see many new sights, and try new experiences. And I just have to say."

He frowned, gripping their shoulders tightly.

"I am never going on another vacation ever again. If it was legal, I would never even have a day off. I won't ever spend the 15-30 minutes of a lunch break, I will instead eat as I work. hoping that, by some miracle, I choke on my food and perish, so that I will never have to remember the things you two absolute deranged lunatics put me through. The very thought of a break is causing me Physical, Mental, and Spiritual Pain. I can feel my very Aura drain as I am forced to picture what has transpired."

with his bullhead arriving, he boarded, before it departed he turned to look at them once last time.

"Never invite me to do anything with you two ever again."

The remainder of Team STRQ watched as the Atlesian Headmaster left.

Qrow huffed, "Ungrateful much?"
Tai nodded, "Totally."

 

[Frankly Tired]

Jaune, Penny and Ruby's First Date
(This will see an update)
~~~~~~
Prompt:
Penny decides she's going to experience dating. So she selects Ruby and Jaune as her first partners. How does it go?
~~~~~~
J: "Wait both of us at the same time?"
P: "Yes! Double the experience!"
J: "Penny that's not how that-"

R:"Hold that thought Penny!"
P:"Okay!"

"Jaune, let her have this. Besides with another one here, we can stop her from going too far, too fast."
"Huh?"
"Do you really want to experience Penny rubbing your leg under a table?"
"Wh-what?!"
"Penny has a habit of applying everything she learns at the same time, it's why I banned her from helping me with doing maintenance on Crescent Rose."
She sighed.
"So much oil, polish, and paint..."

"So she might..."
"On the first date? Probably."
.
.
*Fearful shiver*
.
.
"Ruby, we're going on a date with Penny together."
"For safety?"
"For safety."

 

[emileano154]

Blake is lactose intolerant.
Also she's allergic to strawberries.

Click to shrink...

well that is not going to be fun

 

[GraveyardShift]

Didn't you have that other Alternate Universe Theater @Frankly Tired where Blake ate the Milkshake?

Is this a callback?

 

[Sift Green]

A series of posts combined into one discussing what Summer Rose being turned into a Hound-style Grimm would actually entail, and a bit of the narrative role The Hound and its ilk could play in the story.


Back when The Hound was first introduced and then revealed to have a Silver Eyed Faunus trapped inside of them the fandom ran rampant with speculation that Salem used Summer Rose as the core of a Hound. There was then speculation that this could be a way to bring Summer back into the narrative, but said speculation rarely went beyond "This is a way for Ruby and Yang to get their mom back, Happy Ending!"

Those surface level speculations either ignored or glossed over the fact that the Silver Eyed Faunus was seriously screwed up when we got a clear glimpse of him beneath the Grimm. As the wiki accurately describes:

"He was horribly scarred, his face warped and contorted, resembling a severe burn. His right eye was covered by a vein-like mass of white flesh, which faded and extended beyond his eye. White boils bubbled in patches of his skin, and he appeared to have been rotting, as pieces of torn skin exposed his muscle. Black liquids leaked from his remaining eye and ears. Beneath the Grimm mass, it appears the man's flesh had since withered away as his arm had been reduced to its skeleton and blackened."

On top of that the Silver Eyed Faunus' brief exposure hinted at his mind being pretty far gone, as he had basically no reaction to the Grimm flesh around his head getting obliterated, simply chanting The Hound's current objective while stumbling forward trying to achieve said objective.


So with all of that in mind let's consider what Summer being made into the core of a Hound or some other unique Grimm would actually look like.



To start off with, Summer probably would have been the core of whatever Grimm Salem stuck her in for a long time. The most likely timeframe of Summer getting turned into a Grimm core would be around the time of the disaster of a mission that ended with her presumed dead; so while it'd be possible that Salem could have had Summer trapped in some kind of suspended animation to experiment with later it's more likely that Summer's been a Grimm core for well over a decade, with the second decade nearing completion.

Now we have no idea how long the Silver Eyed Faunus had been the core of The Hound, but with the amount of time Summer would have been a Grimm core it'd be hard to justify her being in significantly better shape than him. This presents us with two possibilities; either she still has enough of head, torso and vital organs to survive being removed from the Grimm she's the core of, or she doesn't.


The or she doesn't is the faster idea to explore. This is basically just an angst fight where the happiest outcome is Ruby and/or Yang putting their mother out of her misery. This idea has some merit for exploring aspects of Ruby and Yang's personalities, and what their friends would do to support them after such a harrowing experience, but if your story keeps most of the traumatic events of the original show then the idea looses what merit it has. Enough went wrong for our protagonists that adding this on top of everything else is honestly just adding misery and angst for the sake of misery and angst.



Now the more interesting idea to explore is if Summer can survive being removed from the Grimm she's the core of. Like I noted earlier when we consider the fact that the Silver Eyed Faunus' limbs had been reduced to nothing but blackened bones there is a real possibility that the Summer that gets pulled out of the Grimm would be nothing more than a heavily scared and limbless head plus torso. Now the cybernetic technology we see in RWBY means that the doctors can actually do something for Summer even after she's been reduced to such a pitiful state, it's just a matter of getting her to a hospital capable of performing the right procedures.


So on the physical side of things we have the low drama and high drama options: either Summer is removed from the Grimm at a place relatively close to an appropriate hospital and we can go straight into a recovery arc, or Summer is removed from the Grimm at a remote location in which case we now have the drama of transporting a highly fragile and completely helpless person over a great distance to a place she can be helped.

In either case the road to a psychological recovery is probably not an easy one. Summer's spent over one and a half decades in a personal hell after all, her mental state is going to be anything but healthy. Now after going through that hell it'd be possible that her mind is too broken for mortal methods to help, but that's honestly the less interesting possibility as it'd once again be angst for the sake of angst. Now having a completely insane Summer that's still capable of recovery would still have its' angst, but so long as she actually does recover on some level that angst would be there to serve the story instead of just being there for its own sake.

There'd be a lot of interesting things a writer could explore in Summer's potential madness and how it affects the people around her, and then how her slowly returning sanity deals with the fallout of her madness on top of the lost years.



So TLDR; having Summer be the core of a Hound or some other Grimm isn't a neat and simple way to bring her back. Revealing her to be alive through this method creates more problems for our heroes than it solves, and there would be some serious work for our heroes to obtain the happy ending at the conclusion of a story involving the idea.



Later post:

Continuing with the topic of the Grimm Hound, it's a shame that the concept of these special Grimm—capable of thought and even speech (similar to the High-End Nomu from *BNHA*)—wasn't explored further.

And as "Count" rightly pointed out, they'll likely just use this concept to potentially bring Summer back (I doubt it, but CRWBY has a strange knack for surprising us—and not always in a good way).

Click to shrink...

Well logically speaking bringing Summer back as a Hound isn't a simple or straightforward happy ending, as I go into more detail in this post here.

To summarize the Silver Eyed Faunus that served as The Hound's core was seriously f**ked up, so logically speaking if Summer was the core of a Hound or some other comparable Grimm she would be just as if not more f**ked up.

So if a writer is taking the idea seriously it wouldn't be a "Summer is saved and is back in action alongside her daughters," type of thing. It would either be a "Yang and/or Ruby need to put their mother out of her misery" kind of thing or a "Summer needs decades of physical and psychological therapy before she can have anything resembling a normal life" kind of ordeal.

So, I'd like to ask everyone: what ideas do you have to make these "Hound Grimm" more interesting?

How would you handle the "Hound Grimm" concept to make it more compelling and intimidating?

Do you think the Hound Grimm should have appeared or been hinted at prior to Volume 8?

Click to shrink...

If I was doing a rewrite of RWBY I'd work the events of the Grimm Eclipse game into the main narrative while changing a few things. Namely I would have teams RWBY and JNPR encounter Salem's Maiden Candidate Allie Warbucks, who in addition to her own pseudo-Grimm Gobble-uns would be accompanied by a pair of Hounds acting as her body guards as she searched for Doctor Merlot in the hopes of making contact with him and recruiting him into Salem's service.

It would then be a race between our heroes and Allie to reach Doctor Merlot first, and one of The Hounds would serve as the narrative's final boss to give Allie the cover she needs to get away with the mad scientist.


Now to further build upon The Hound concept I would have some of the hounds develop into more foxlike humanoids that will be called Gumiho. These Gumiho will be sleeker than The Hounds, to the point that you can discern the original gender of the victim inside them, as the bulk of the Grimm-matter mass is concentrated in the Gumiho's tails. These tails are vicious shape shifting weapons that the Gumiho can use to devastating effect thanks to the fact that the Gumiho's mind is even clearer than a Hound's, as if the monster is on the cusp of having a personality beyond following the orders it's been given.

On top of that if the victim serving as the Gumiho's core had their own personal weapon it's possible that the Gumiho will still remember how to maintain and use that weapon proficiently, meaning there's a chance the Gumiho will fight with that weapon instead of or in addition to its' tails.

Spoiler: If I were doing Grimm!Summer...

If, if I were to use the "Summer got turned into a Grimm's core" plot idea I would have her be a Gumiho. When Salem deploys Allie to hunt the Spring Maiden following Cinder's attack on the Vytal Festival Allie would bring a handful of Hounds and Gumiho to act as her honor guard, including Gumiho!Summer.

Gumiho!Summer would have enough of a mind to somewhat recognize Raven and assign blame for her current tortured existence upon Raven: as her fractured psyche would still remember how the Branwen sister's semblance worked and come to the conclusion that Raven chose to not come back for her. This stokes a desire for revenge beyond the Grimm instincts that are running roughshod over her disjointed mind.

I'm first picturing this particular plot point beginning with Gumiho!Summer mistakes a traveling Yang for Raven and attacking. Yang quickly realizes she's outmatched by this unusual Grimm leading to an intense chase sequence. Yang gets away but Gumiho!Summer tracks her at a distance, which is what eventually leads her and Allie Warbucks to the Branwen's camp.

And so there's an attack on the camp. The battle is pretty intense but our heroines plus Raven and Vernal manage to escape Allie and her accompanying Gumiho and Hounds.

Where exactly to go from there I'm not completely sure yet, but a scene where the Gumiho pulls out Summer's shotgun-axe and fighting with it the same way Summer would to Raven's growing horror is how I want to confirm the Gumiho that seems to personally have it out for Raven contains Summer.

A big Raven vs Gumiho!Summer fight is a must.

If Summer can be saved it would involve Ruby Silver Eye blasting away the Grimm-matter imprisoning her followed up by Jaune using Aura Amp to supercharge Summer's own Silver power thereby purging her of everything Ruby's blast couldn't get rid of. This would require an above novice level of mastery over those two powers, so they can't do it during the first couple of confrontations. The freed Summer would be a limbless head and torso with a shattered mind, which means she could be a significant burden for our heroes if they aren't close to a trustworthy hospital. I'm picturing Summer sometimes recognizing Yang and Ruby as her daughters, other times thinking Yang is Raven and Ruby a long dead sibling or cousin. All in all it'd be a mess.

If they're lucky Raven will still be on hand to fetch Taiyang and perhaps get them to Isabel's hospital. If not it'd be a long road to ether Argus or Atlas.

A wild idea that just occurred to me while writing this is having Hazel turn into a "Hound Grimm" (this would open up the possibility that not all "Hound Grimm" have to be created from people with Silver Eyes). Thanks to his pain-immunity Semblance, he might actually survive the procedure... I know it sounds crazy, but Hazel is arguably the most underutilized member of Salem's inner circle; his only truly memorable moments were his role in the Battle of Haven and his final fight against Salem. What do you think?

Click to shrink...

Hmmm....

So the silver-eyes being necessary to survive the grimmification methods Salem was experimenting with to create The Hounds is the assumption I've been working with. Salem thinking she's refined the process enough to not necessarily need a silver-eyed individual and turning to Hazel to see if that's true might be an interesting thing to do.

Now the question is the circumstances. Did Salem somehow convince him to willingly volunteer for the experiment? Is this punishment for him deciding to turn on her at a crucial moment? This can seriously change the direction you're going with this.



Second Later Post:

That's a pretty interesting idea, but now I'm wondering: are the Hound Grimm and the Gumiho variant exclusive to this OC, or can other characters in Salem's inner circle use them too?

Click to shrink...

So when Salem was training Allie Warbucks she decided to teach Allie about Grimm-sculpting under the assumption that such knowledge would help Allie master her own semblance. These assumptions were more or less correct, helping Allie create new varieties of her Gobble-uns. On top of that Allie proved to have enough of a knack for Grimm-sculpting that Salem made Allie her personal assistant for several Grimm-sculpting experiments.

Now what does that mean for Allie's relationship with The Hounds and Gumihos? Well it means that Allie was there for the creation of most of The Hounds, giving her an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of those monstrosities. Most of the Gumiho also evolved from Hounds under Allie's hands.

So Allie is like the veterinarian overseeing The Hounds and Gumihos, making sure the living cores and surrounding Grimm-matter are in a "healthy" state of equilibrium. Now this doesn't mean other members of Salem's Inner Circle can't use The Hounds and Gumihos but if Allie doesn't like them she might make them jump through some hoops before letting them use one, unless their mission has been handed out by Queen Salem herself.

Well, I was thinking of a possible option:

This would take place after Salem's team was defeated at Haven. Since Hazel blamed himself for the mission's failure, Salem would offer him a second chance using deceptive words, eventually convincing him to undergo an experiment—something akin to a "proto-Hound." Salem knew Hazel might not survive the procedure, as he didn't possess Silver Eyes, but thanks to his Semblance—immunity to pain—he not only survived but also kept his mind intact.

This would explain why Hazel wasn't with Watts and Tyrian's team in Volume 7; he would be the one sent on missions like hunting down Oscar and later Penny. (In the latter case, the scenario would shift so that Hazel decides to flee after failing to capture Penny, demonstrating that he possesses more autonomy than Salem intended.)

Finally, Hazel would turn against Salem; even though she subjects him to indescribable pain, he manages to ignore it and fight back against her.

Click to shrink...

I see. I guess that makes enough sense to work.

Another somewhat crazy idea that occurs to me is having Cinder command a Hound Grimm during her infiltration mission at Beacon in Volumes 2 and 3. Just imagine how the teachers and students at Beacon would react to the existence of a Grimm like that—one capable of thinking, devising human-like strategies, and even speaking—as well as discovering that there is a human with silver eyes inside it.

Click to shrink...

Having Cinder commit a Hound to her attack on Beacon is an idea I could see working. It creates a clear roadblock that any Teacher besides Glynda can't breeze past, giving an in universe reason as to why there was absolutely nobody in Beacon's staff that was able to reinforce Ozpin when he was attempting to give Pyrrha Amber's Maiden Powers: The Hound delayed them.




Third Later Post:

So, my question is: assuming you could pull this off, how would you do afterwards to make me respect the Grimm again (my respect for the Grimm is going to take a big hit that is a Hound with an SEW core no matter what), how would you do it in such a way that I am not forced to pick between it and Red Trailer, and what, in your mind is the opportunity cost of this?

What does the story have to not do in exchange for this to happen?

Oh, and it shouldn't devalue death or consequences for the narrative. A big reason I am not able to really respect western comic books as a story format is that nothing the characters do seems to matter for carry consequence.

If I get it worked into my head that what I have been told the characters have done and why that matters to the story is overruled or countermanded in the very next chapter I tend to start wondering whether or not their actions matter to the plot at all.

I hope I have not left you feeling put-upon.

Click to shrink...

So I think part of the problem is that battles with Elite Grimm were honestly far and few between and at some point they stopped feeling like battles with Elite Grimm.

I mean let's go over the Grimm that were supposed to be Elite Grimm that were a cut above the cannon fodder Grimm like Beowolves and Griffons: The Arma Gigas from The White Trailer. The Giant Nevermore and Deathstalker from Initiation. Then we have the Scared Beringel from the Volume 4 Trailer. The Giest. The Sea Feilong. The Queen Lancer. The Nuckelavee. The Grimm Sphinx leading the Manticores on the train attack. And then The Hound.

(I'm not counting the Wyvern because none of our heroes actually fought the darn thing. Same with the Leviathan.)

So in total we have:
1. Arma Gigas
2. Giant Nevermore.
3. Deathstalker.
4. Scared Beringel.
5. The Giest.
6. The Sea Feilong.
7. The Queen Lancer.
8. The Nuckelavee.
9. The Sphinx.
10. The Hound.

Ten. Just Ten fights with Grimm that we could consider Elites instead of fodder. Two of these fights were from trailers instead of in the show proper. Giant Nevermores and Deathstalkers didn't take long to join the cannon fodder. The Giest felt more like a reintroduction tutorial boss in the first level of a game's sequel than a true elite. You could argue the same for the Sea Feilong. The Sphinx didn't feel like an Elite because of how little damage it did over the duration of that fight.

This means in the show proper the only Elite Grimm our heroes fought that truly feel like elites on rewatch are The Queen Lancer, The Nuckelavee, and The Hound.

And I think that's part of the reason why The Hound feels like a hit to your respect for the Grimm. He's a full third of the Elite Grimm that actually feel like Elites on rewatch, making it feel like the Grimm need to be mixed with humans in some way to pose a serious threat. This feeling is not helped by how many volumes back the other two true elite feeling Grimm fights were.

I'm betting that if there were more Grimm that posed as much of a threat to our heroes as the Nuckelavee did more evenly spread out through the different volumes that feeling wouldn't be as strong.


So that would be the first half of my fix: More Grimm on a similar threat level as the Nuckelavee, Queen Lancer, Arma Gigas, and Scared Beringel. At least one fight with a Grimm on that level per volume, preferably more if they can be worked cleanly into the story. I'm thinking if only one fight can be cleanly worked in it should be with a Grimm that's a proper threat to an entire team like the Nuckelavee, and if more fights can be worked in you have duels between an elite Grimm and one of our main characters like the Scared Beringel verses Ruby fight.

It should also take significantly more fights before the Giant Nevermores and Deathstalkers get demoted to fodder. I mean Deathstalkers have some serious armor, fighting one should feel like fighting a Mgalekgolo from Halo; i.e. a real headache without armor piercing weaponry. This means a random Deathstalker should still be a major threat to our heroes if they ever run into one without the right equipment even in later volumes.

Do this right and The Hound should stop feeling like something needed to keep the Grimm relevant and more like a side project Salem devised to place the Silver Eyed Bloodlines that effectively defied her in an ironic living hell, relishing in the cruelty of their torment. Turn the Hounds from something Salem actively needs into something she's doing for sick kicks and giggles.



As for how I'd handle The Hounds themselves?

Well like I said earlier I'd first introduce them alongside one of Salem's Dark Maiden Candidates during the events of Grimm Eclipse, which I'd work into the main narrative of my from-the-beginning rewrite. Perhaps it's revealed that Hounds have a Silver Eyed Victim serving as their core during this fight, perhaps that's saved for later. A Hound serving Cinder is probably involved in her attack on Beacon, doing battle with teachers and other members of the school's facilities keeping people from reinforcing Ozpin. If the Silver Eyed Victim thing isn't revealed in the previous encounter it would be revealed in this one.

For the rest of the show I'm currently thinking Hounds and their derivatives would be best used as bodyguards and gofers for Salem's inner circle, especially for Allie Warbucks, as a kind of reoccurring penultimate boss fight before any final confrontation with a member of the Inner Circle. This idea might need further refinement and reconsideration.


Now if I were to do the Summer-Used-As-A-Grimm-Core concept I'd have it be part of the Volumes 4 and 5 equivalents in my rewrite like I explained in the spoiler from this post. That spoiler lays out the current gist of my thoughts. If it is possible to save her said saving would probably happen during the volume six equivalent, maybe volume seven. In any case Summer would be too broken to help anyone, and any real recovery would have to wait for the series epilogue.




As for reconciling the premise of The Red Trailer and the lyrics of Red Like Roses with a Summer that isn't completely dead? Let us consider what death actually is.

Death is ultimately a separation. The reason death is tragic is because a person who was here isn't anymore, and can't be without an act of god. If a portal opened beneath my feet and dropped me into the mystical realm of Candyland with no way to return to the regular world I am functionally dead on Earth even though I didn't literally die.

As a Grimm's core Summer is functionally dead to Remnant and in hell. The fact that she isn't literally dead is irrelevant to all the people who believe her to be dead as the separation can only end through an act of god or a herculean style miracle, and the handful of people who could attempt a herculean style miracle are unaware such a miracle can be attempted.

This means Summer is functionally dead to everyone relevant until the Grimm imprisoning her is deployed and people can learn she isn't literally dead. Ruby's original motivations are preserved. The horror of The Hounds could apply cracks to that motivation, especially if/when Summer's revealed to be trapped in that hell, but putting cracks in a main character's motivations isn't always a bad thing. The right cracks can lead to character defining self reflection that can help drive a story forward.



The original Death of Superman story carried real weight even though it was obvious they were going to bring him back from the word go because the narrative impact of his return didn't erase the narrative impact of his absence. Resurrection only cheapens the weight of death if the pain of the separation was meaningless, or the price paid to end it is too trivial.

The price of rescuing Summer from that hell and putting her back together into a functional human being is very high. The pain caused by the separation is not meaningless nor is it erased if she returns in this manner, in fact having her return in such a manner could easily intensify and amplify the pains the original separation caused.


Now am I saying Summer must be brought back in such a manner? No. Her being dead serves a good narrative purpose, and you're not wrong that bringing her back in the wrong way could easily weaken everything that's been built upon the reality of her death.

However, by what I can only assume was sheer dumb luck CRWBY managed to put all the pieces on the table for a way to bring Summer back in a manner that wouldn't necessarily weaken everything that's been built on Summer's death.

That being said in spite of all the correct pieces being on the table I highly doubt CRWBY would put them together in the right way, so your visceral rejection of the idea is understandable. And I personally hope they don't do it because it would make it harder for fan fiction writers who'd have a better shot at doing it correctly to be taken seriously if they try their hand at it.

 

[Quietview27]

but the game revealing how BROKEN Jaune semblance is

Could make an interesting plot where some of the Specialists noticed how insane Jaune's semblance could make him, so purposefully sabotage his attempts to learn beneficial techniques, like offering the most vague advice, or making sure he never has time to train. Mostly they do it to make sure he can't come and take their position, which tbf I doubt he'd do given he has bigger worries to focus on

Someone help I don't know what I did to get it like this!

Click to shrink...

Click to shrink...

 

[mgl1206]

Gonna be honest here, that plot idea sounds so absolutely stupid CRWBY might just actually write something like that hell it's still better than what they actually did… just fucking forgetting it exists unless they needed a deus ex machina

 

[Frankly Tired]

Didn't you have that other Alternate Universe Theater @Frankly Tired where Blake ate the Milkshake?

Is this a callback?

Click to shrink...

When did i do that?
i dont recall.

 

[GraveyardShift]

Jaune Arc: Tsundere Hunter

"Ms. Nikos! Ms. Nikos!"

Pyrrha gestured to the reporter keeping Plastic Smile No. 7 "The Gentle Ease" on her lips. But Dust was this Press Conference taking so long... She may have been retired from the circuit for her time at Beacon but she was still required by the Sponsership contracts that had yet to expire to make the occasional Media Presence.

She'd much rather be back at Beacon right now watching Nora's latest antics...

"Ms. Nikos there have been rumors floating around that you have been seen in the presence of a local Valish Boy during your time at Beacon. Can you offer some insight into who this boy is and why he's seen so frequently with you?"

Pyrrha's smile slipped slightly almost into a genuine grin but she caught it and forced Plastic Smile No. 3 "The Slight Teeth" into place.

...or she could be working on getting Jaune to date her. Again.

"As you well know, I am attending Beacon Academy to put my skills to use as a future Huntress and Defender of Humanity. I have been placed on a team with three other individuals as is Hunter Academy Standard. The boy you are likely referring to who's name is Jaune Arc..." She allowed herself a little heat in her voice to make it clear she didn't appreciate the dehumanization of Jaune by omitting his name before switching back to a neutral tone. "...is the Team Leader of the team I am on. It is only natural that as my fellow teammate and Team Leader I spend time in his company to better our cooperation in our time at Beacon."

"Anything to say about the rumors that you are dating this Jaune Arc or he is currently attempting to date you?"

"No."

"What about the rumors that he is currently attempting to date multiple girls including famed Heiress and Singer Weiss Schee?"

Pyrrha twitched slightly at the name but forced herself to keep still. "Jaune is a very kind young man which is appreciated by many of our fellow classmates and close friends. He is free to date who he chooses." LIKE MEEEEEEEEEE. She raged in her head. ME AND NOT THAT FLAT SKINNY HARLOT WHO IS ONLY ICE AND SPITE.

"What about the rumor-"

Pyrrha's agent cut in. "As much as I'm sure Ms. Nikos would like to recount her academy experiences, if there are no further questions regarding the subject of this Press Release, we will need to end it here as we are 30 minutes over time. Thank you for attendance." Pyrrha was greatly relieved by the dismissal and being ushered out as reporters clamored to try and get a last question in.

---

Jaune opened the door to the dorm room just a Pyrrha was snapping the last of the elastic of her workout outfit into place. He quickly spun around and closed the door. "Whoop! Oh sorry Pyrrha! Didn't know you were back already!"

Pyrrha turned to face him with a megawatt grin on her face. "Oh no big deal Jaune! It's not like we haven't seen each other already given how we live together." Pyrrha had, in truth, been fully dressed for 30 minutes now and had been waiting for Jaune to return to the dorm before strategically positioning herself and adjusting her outfit when he came in to sell the lie it had been a 'close call'.

She had been doing this since their first week as a team back when JNPR was sorting out their 'domestic' schedule because Jaune had been GREAT fun to tease. Ever since she teased him in the Emerald Forest about 'having spots on his team' and he had reacted positively to her first attempts at teasing to form a genuine connection, she had come to crave that response from him.

As a Co-Ed team, there had been the occasional 'accident' of walking in on each other which was to be expected. Nora and Ren having grown up as Co-ed nomads and raised in Mistralian culture which included communal and mixed bathing, were used to it and didn't make a big deal out of it.

Pyrrha herself, also Mistralian and having been pretty much raised in a locker room, didn't have the same sense of bodyshame ether and so also wasn't put off by any 'accidents'.

But Jaune... oh SWEET Jaune... despite having been raised with seven sisters and his early training of being a doctor, was SUCH a gentleman about wanting to 'preserve their modesty', had the most HILARIOUS reactions when it happened. The way he went red, stuttered and stammered, before saying something completely non sequitur that never failed to make people laugh.

Nora had immediately joined in with her into trying to arrange such 'incidents' trying to see what off the wall stuff she could make him say and take it as a competition to 'outweird the Fearless Leader'. Much to Ren's torment. The stories of which were eagerly shared with their sister team RWBY which Yang would latch onto about the 'Jaune Phrase of the Week'.

Life went on and Jaune got better about the stammering, slowly becoming inoculated to the 'incidents' though he still had the weird gibberish outburst and never failed to turn red. Which he was doing now.

And Lonely Little Pyrrha, devoid of any meaningful relationships, had her heart stolen when she wasn't looking by the kind blonde goofball himbo.

She didn't know how or when it happened. Maybe one too many of those boyish smiles sent her way with genuine kindness and affection. Maybe it was the dark secret he entrusted to her, first and long before the others, that bound them together as he literally entrusted his life to her at Beacon. A gift so precious and taboo she swore to guard it to her grave.

Or maybe it was just knowing the reaction she got out of him when she teased him triggering his gentlemanly upbringing. Eventually coming to understand he reacted this way because he saw her as a woman.

Pyrrha shivered a little at that. Jaune, a boy, saw her, as a girl.

And she liked that he saw her as such. Making a little flutter that jumped from her stomach to her chest.

But whatever the case was. The hows or whys. They mattered not. What did matter was that Pyrrha Nikos was In Love with Jaune Arc.

And so she teased him relentlessly, more frequently, knowing that when she did so, all his attention was focused on her in that moment.

And, she was so sure, if she remained the focus of his attention, he would come to see her in the same way that she saw him having captured her attention for as long as he had.

She simply nodded having not paid attention to a single thing he'd said in the last few minutes. Only watching his lips move. "Sounds about right." She said causing Jaune to raise an eyebrow. KYA! SO CUTE! Pyrrha gushed internally. "I'm heading up the roof. We're doing stretches today so wear something light. No need to bring combat gear." She reminded him.

"Seem to be doing that a lot these days...." Jaune mumbled.

"Flexibility is important to a Huntsman Jaune. Being able to move in unpredictable ways without hurting yourself can throw off your opponents letting you slip through their guards easier." She demonstrated by twisting while stretching before dropping backwards into a bridge arching herself and nearly folding in two.

Jaune went pure red at the things she was doing. "Uh... L-l-lettuce stocks are up over jelly seeds in the market today." He said turning away from her.

Pyrrha fell flat on her back as giggles took her. Finally she rolled to her feet (going backwards heels over head ensuring Jaune stayed red watching her move) and patted him on the shoulder as she went for the door. "See you in five."

"R-Right."

Pyrrha let the door close behind her but used her semblance to prevent the latch from engaging letting her silently crack the door open and watch with giddy intent as Jaune's shirt came off. Oh Yes... she thought.

---

Jaune had no idea how it came to this. He was a good boy! His mother had pretty much forced him to be such.

And here he was stuck between two girls wearing little more than 'swimwear' as gym clothes.

Yang had showed up a few minutes after he and Pyrrha had gotten started. "Oh! You two doing some stretching and Yoga? Fancy that! I'll just join you!"

He knew what was going on. He knew about the 'Jaune Phrase of the Week' challenge and how Yang had started joining in with Pyrrha and Nora trying to get a rise out of him. Yang was a worse tease then Pyrrha and Nora combined!

"No Jaune. You're still too stiff. You need to loosen up a little further and REAAAACH!" Jaune gritted his teeth as Pyrrha put her hands on his back and pushed bending him in a way that didn't feel natural. How was he getting worse at this? Pyrrha seemed to have to constantly correct him all the time.

And Yang wasn't helping at all! As much as Jaune tried to avert his gaze and respect her, she somehow always found a way to stretch right in his sightline.

If he didn't know any better he'd swear they were flirting with him.

But that was silly! They were only nice to him because he made them laugh. Which... wasn't the end of the world. Being able to make his friends laugh and feel good was something Jaune Arc could do for people. Positive energy and all that.

Living with seven sisters had him used to being teased in all manner of different ways by girls. Always playful and never hurtful. Just like his friends.

Except Weiss.

Weiss Schnee was a cold angel of snow. Who dismissed him as a 'bumbling peasant'. Who acerbic tongue lashed out at him at every opportunity.

But his mother had taught him better. That to never judge a book by its cover. That a 'friend was a stranger you just hadn't met yet.'

That somewhere under there was nice, kind person who was afraid of being taken advantage of.

But like his father said "All you need is confidence son. Your mom didn't say yes at first ether, but I kept going! I never let the rejection get me down and just like a good fight, you get up and keep trying! And now we're married for life and I wouldn't have any other woman ever!"

To which his mother Isabel promptly smacked him in the back of the head but did so with a blush on her face and she didn't resist the kiss Nick immediately planted on her afterwards.

And then there had been his ex-girlfriend Katy.

She had been bullish, loudmouthed, and argumentative. And the more they fought, the more she'd clung to him.

But in the quiet moments when it was the two of them leading up to when they had gotten together romantically, she was a kind, affectionate, cuddler that had only become more pronounced when they were dating.

All of this including some extra research from Mistralian literature had led Jaune to one conclusion.

Weiss had feelings for him! But she was being a Tsundere about it meaning she wouldn't just come out and say what she really felt.

And frankly, Jaune had to admit that having to work for Weiss' affections was something he enjoyed. There was no reward without honest hard work ever in life right? The Good Book of Aslan said so multiple times!

He just had to put in the work and show Weiss that he, Jaune Arc, was a gentleman to the core and that she could trust him to catch her feelings and hold them gently. She'd come around!

...in fact... he should go invite her to come up and join them!

"Hey guys! I'll be right back. I need to go check on something." Jaune made for the rooftop exit and down into the dorms.

Once he was clear, Yang and Pyrrha butted up against each other with brittle smiles.

"So we're really doing this are we P-Money?"

"Apparently we are."

"No hard feelings when he picks the right girl?"

"None. At. All."

---

As Jaune knocked on the dorm room door, it was not Weiss that answered but Ruby Rose.

"Eyah?" she asked around a sucker clenched between her teeth leaning on the doorframe.

"Uh..." Jaune forgot himself a minute taking in the spaghetti top and short thigh length skirt she was wearing. "Is the AC out or something? Everyone's wearing some pretty light clothing."

Ruby pulled the sucker free of her lips with a pop. "Or something." She commented idly.

"Didn't take you for a lollypop girl. You're normally obsessing over cookies as your goto sweet."

Ruby shrugged working the hard candy around her mouth before pulling it free again. "Felt like a change today and needed the raw sugar." She offered the very sucker that had been in her mouth to Jaune. "Want some?"

"Uh... thanks but while I'm sure you have excellent dental hygiene... I'll pass on the one that's been in your mouth."

Ruby shrugged. "Missing out." she put it back it between her jaws. Jaune caught sight of her tongue swiping over it. "Ehth strahbeuh." she said.

"Riiiight."

Jaune and Ruby just stared at each other for the next few minutes. Ruby working on her candy and standing there waiting on him as Jaune's brain tried to remember why he was here in the first place.

"Ruby, why are you standing at the door like that? In or out!" The door was yanked fully open as one Weiss Schnee was revealed. Her eyes caught sight of Jaune and her breath came out in a hiss. "Oh. YOU." Taking stock of the situation she noticed the staring match going on and immediately hustled Ruby back into the room as Ruby protested. "How DARE you objectify my team leader like that!"

"Damn it Weiss! It wasn't like that! It's just hot!" Ruby protested out of sight.

"A likely story!" Weiss growled as she glared at Jaune still in her usual outfit.

Jaune clapped his hands as his brain finally hit drive. "Oh right! That's why I came down here!" He cleared his throat. "Weiss would like to join me, Pyrrha, and Yang on the roof for a stretch session?"

Weiss turned red and she verbally exploded. "YOU FILTHY CHANUVISTOIC PIG! YOU ROTTEN MONGRAL! HOW DARE YOU ASK ME TO PERFORM FOR YOUR SICK ENTERTAINMENT!"

The rant went on as a "WHAT!?!?" exploded from behind her followed by the loud banging and clattering of wardrobe doors and dresser drawers.

As Weiss finally wound down from her rant she was bodily shoved aside as Ruby charged past her having changed into a rather tight gym outfit herself seized Jaune's arm and powered down the hallway with Jaune in tow using Pedal Burst yelling "THOSE HUSSIES HAVE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME TRYING TO STEAL MY BESTIE FOR THEMSELVES! HE WAS MINE FIRST!"

Yeah, Jaune thought to himself as he tried to keep dinner down as Ruby ripped through the school onto the roof at high speed before charging into the standoff with Pyrrha and her sister yelling something at them about 'bimbos'. His friends were weird and Weiss just wasn't being honest with her feelings yet. But he'd get there eventually!

---

From the next building over, Nora gleefully watched the chaos though a pair of binoculars. "She actually called them bimbos! Pay up Renny!"

Ren sighed and passed her 5 lien. "I still say you can't read lips."

Blake's ears twitched minutely as she caught every word. "She did call them bimbos." She confirmed.

"See?" Nora challenged. "Okay. New bet. Yang slips accidentally on purpose and falls on him. It's classic."

"With Pyrrha there? I say it's Ruby who gets away with it."

Blake scoffed as she added the cute rogue to the story of the Gallant Knight and his rooftop romantic rendezvous just as the tension was set to explode. "Please. It ends with ALL of them falling on him as they mistime their efforts and all try to do it at once and get tangled in a human knot."

"Bet!" Nora held out a hand and Blake slapped it.

---

SAVED IT!

 

[GraveyardShift]

@Frankly Tired You posted this right before I posted "Let Sleeping Mia's lie" back in May.

Frankly Tired said:
thank you Chatgpt, having the cast react to my own threadmarks, is very funny.

Even if it is in a Simplistic GPT AI style on occasion.

Click to shrink...

Here's a section, It's them watching "Strawberry Maintence"

here's the Blake part.

The projector cuts to Blake.

She stands in the courtyard, staring at a strawberry milkshake.

It sits on the table.

Innocent.

Deadly.

---

Despite her stereotypes demanding that milk must be consumed...

Blake's ears flatten.

Yang turns to her. "Oh no."

Blake's expression becomes resigned. "I know where this is going."

---

Blake is lactose intolerant.

Jaune winces. "Oh."

---

Also, she's allergic to strawberries.

The entire room turns.

Yang: "Blake."

Blake says flatly, "I am aware."

Ruby whispers, "That milkshake is your enemy."

Ren nods. "A complete counterbuild."

Nora gasps. "It has type advantage."

Weiss looks between them. "Why would she even consider it?"

---

But the milk.

It's calling to her.

On-screen Blake leans slowly toward the milkshake, eyes narrowed like she is fighting destiny.

Real Blake covers her face with one hand.

Yang is losing it again. "Blake."

Blake mutters, "Cat jokes are not fair when they become prophecy."

Ruby, loyally, says, "You don't have to drink milk."

Nora whispers, "But it called."

Ren: "Do not encourage the fatal beverage."

---

And so were the paramedics.

The scene cuts.

On-screen Blake lies on a stretcher, foaming faintly at the mouth while paramedics wheel her away.

The milkshake cup sits empty beside her.

Everyone freezes.

Then Yang makes a strangled noise. "Blake!"

Ruby looks horrified. "You drank it?!"

Blake's voice is muffled behind her hand. "Apparently."

Weiss is half-concerned, half-scandalized. "You knew both problems!"

Blake lowers her hand just enough to say, "The milk was persuasive."

Nora nods solemnly. "The call was answered."

Ren: "At great cost."

Jaune whispers, "I'm scared of this milkshake event."

Pyrrha, very gently, "That seems reasonable."
Click to shrink...

Click to shrink...

AI slop it may be, but i found it funny.

I just wish it would stop slipping from established personality locks and writing/format rules so much.

 

[AndrewJTalon]

Yang being tsundere towards Jaune could be interesting to explore. Unlike Weiss' stuffy princess-style tsundere, Yang is more like a bullying childhood friend: She does actually really like Jaune but she's not sure how to approach it genuinely. Sure, she can flirt to get things she wants, or to tease, but genuine romantic feelings scare her. She's not sure how to approach Jaune, so she bullies him. Often to the point people think she's his wife with how she pesters him to train, look after himself and so on.

 

[Frankly Tired]

@Frankly Tired You posted this right before I posted "Let Sleeping Mia's lie" back in May.



Here's a section, It's them watching "Strawberry Maintence"

here's the Blake part.



AI slop it may be, but i found it funny.

I just wish it would stop slipping from established personality locks and writing/format rules so much.

Click to shrink...

Ah.

Strawberry Maintence came first.
Afterwhich i put my Shorts through a GPT Reaction thing i made, becuase i was bored,

 

[Sift Green]

I also have a series of Direct Messages with @Hahoalki further exploring the Myrmidon Cloning Conspiracy idea. If he's okay with me sharing them I might post them here.

Click to shrink...

Okay, I've received permission from @Hahoalki to share the DM conversation we had about the Myrmidon Cloning Conspiracy. And since @AndrewJTalon was included in the DM thread I've also gotten permission from him to share stuff from it. So here we go.


Hahoalki started us off by presenting the following:

Hello, Sift Green and AJT. I've already discussed aspects of this with one of you on Discord, but you, Sift, I haven't had a chance to speak to in detail with yet.

Essentially, my muse isn't cooperating with Truly Invincible, so I'm going to start diversifying my fics. One of the ideas I have involves fusing the Myrmidon Conspiracy concept with AJT's "High Society: Arkos" idea... with some modifications, because I'm me.

Andrew, a lot of this should be familiar to you, but there are some nuanced changes based on your feedback.

These are the basic ideas I've come up with so far:

Premise 0: the fic begins in the break between First and Second semesters, or (equivalently) between the first and second volumes of RWBY.

Premise 1: the Myrmidon Conspirators have planted a student at Beacon to be their eyes and ears, watching their asset, and making sure she doesn't stray too far from the path they have planned for her. Based on his reports, they are not happy with how close Pyrrha's been getting with her team's leader (nor, for that matter, are they particularly pleased with the fact that she isn't a leader herself). So, they contact Athena (who is Pyrrha's legal guardian and cover-story mother), inform her of the situation, and "ask" her to rein in her "daughter."

Premise 2: Athena, for all her many faults, has developed maternal feelings for the girl she's supposed to be helping control. So once she learns that Pyrrha is close to finding happiness, she does some digging of her own, and learns about Jaune's storied background. She finds out about Arturia (and her various connections), Nick's connections to Aelia Paravel, and Jaune's connection to Jeanne (and thus to the history of Argus & Hellenic identity), and manages to sell the conspirators on the advantages of letting Pyrrha and Jaune get together. Thus convinced, the conspirators "request" that Athena set something up with Arturia. This leads to...

Premise 3: A version of the "Arkos: High Society" snippet. Jaune's family informs him of who the prospective fiance is ahead of time. Athena, with her flair for the dramatic, does not give Pyrrha the same courtesy. So when Jaune says something along the lines of "Don't worry, Nana won't make you do anything you don't want to do, and I don't want to chain you down," Pyrrha suddenly gains the courage to ask, "But what if I do want it?" Jaune's a little shocked (I'm thinking he assumed she was already taken), and doesn't know how he feels, so Pyrrha assures him, "I have feelings for you. But I won't make you do anything you don't want to do, so take however long you need to ask yourself what it is that you want. And rest assured, I will be happy as long as you are too."

Premise 4: Tangy overhears that last part of the conversation, so she's in Pyrrha's corner almost from the get-go. And Jaune? Well, he dances with her, has the time of his life, and asks her if she's sure she's willing to be engaged to him. I'm sure you can guess her answer. But when they get back to school, things start getting complicated, because...

Premise 5: ...Arslan picks a fight with Pyrrha almost as soon as they meet, before backing off saying "Thank the Breaker, you're the real one." (I know, I know, but you really cooked with that concept, Sift) Jaune is suspicious and Pyrrha is skeptical, until Tangy reports that she, also, had a run in with a Pyrrha look-alike.

I'm not sure where the story should go from there, which is one of the reasons I want to talk to you guys. Though, given that this is the Itanoverse, I'm thinking a subplot involving Yang would be apropos.

I have a bunch of questions about worldbuilding and characterization, but right now I'd like to open the floor for feedback - or, Sift, if you feel like you can't trust me to do your idea justice, now's the time to speak up, before I get too invested.



To which I replied with:

I think all of the premises you've laid out are solid. And this idea is big enough for more than one person to take a stab at it, especially since there are some radically different ways you can take the concept. Seeing the way you take it should be fun and I'm looking forward to it.

What kind of feedback are you looking for?



And so Hahoalki went on to ask:

First and foremost: what do you envision the conspirators themselves are like? Obviously, there's both political and scientific elements, but are there more?

Is it a monolithic group, or factionalized?

What role (if any) did Lionheart play in its formation, and what role (if any) does he play now?

The secondary issue involves Pyrrha's character. The paradox of Pyrrha is that she combines a messianic complex (seeing it as her duty and destiny to personally protect Remnant) with genuine humility and selflessness. It's obvious where the former came from in a Myrmidon Clone Conspiracy scenario, but it's less clear where humility could have come from. I can come up with my own ideas for this (likely involving religion), but I would like your input before I commit to anything on this front.

Finally (for now), Pyrrha has a better relationship with her parents in this version of the setting, correct?



To which I replied with:

Since the conspirators are mostly a collection of old families that have clung to the old pre-Breaker traditions and faith there would be a religious angle on top of the political and scientific elements. This religious element wants to see the Hellenic faith become the dominant cultural force within the League again and there'd be some disagreement as to how they should go about that. Some think the natural charisma of their martial messiah will be enough to put things on that path, others think they'll need to proactively suppress the Breaker faith once they gain power. Most conspirators fall somewhere in the middle of those two positions.

In any case some of the news organizations owned by members of the conspiracy slant their stories in a pro-Hellenic anti-Breaker manner. This is readily apparent in how they cover Pyrrha's matches with Arslan since Arslan is such a clear champion of the Breaker faith; presenting the fights as proxy battles between divinities and spinning Pyrrha's victories as signs that the Hellenic pantheon is in ascendance.

Pyrrha doesn't like this, seeing it as needlessly divisive, and has complained to her parents every time an arenas' hosting live commentator has alluded to or outright claimed such a thing. Her parents show that they take Pyrrha's complaints seriously by pulling what strings they can to have the offending commentator not commentate on Pyrrha's future matches. The conspiracy allows this because they can pay the next commentator enough to burn bridges with Pyrrha should her next victory over Arslan be deemed impressive or important enough.

Athena convincing the conspiracy's leadership that Jaune is a good potential match for Pyrrha would be a victory for the 'let our martial messiah's natural charisma bring our people back to hellenism' crowd, though they'd probably be looking into ways to try and convince Jaune to convert to reduce the risk of mixed messages and for the political optics of having someone with his kind of connections embracing the old ways.


On the monolithic vs factionalized question I'd say that the conspiracy is outwardly monolithic with slight internal fractionalization. Basically the conspiracy has been quite good at keeping all of its infighting behind closed doors, which is a contributing factor as to how they've been able to keep a conspiracy as big and old as their conspiracy would need to be a secret to outsiders.


The role Lionheart plays is obfuscation; the conspiracy has to move around a lot of resources to create and maintain a clone army on any meaningful scale. As such Lionheart keeps the central government of Mistral from learning about the resources being moved about, and in return the conspiracy lends him enough Myrmidons to form one or two of his personal hit squads.

At the moment I think the conspiracy is older than Lionheart's involvement as the research and development phase would have taken decades what with mapping out the Myrmidon genome, letting the prototypes grow up enough to see if they had everything right, tweaking genes when they found out they didn't, letting the next batch of prototypes grow up enough and so on until they finally had something worth a production run, and then growing a couple of small production run batches before they finally made Pyrrha herself. So logistically speaking it's quite possible that they'd have to have been working on the project for longer than Lionheart could have been realistically involved.

However Lionheart's involvement would have changed the calculus of the conspiracy, as his ability to obfuscate things from outsiders would allow them to drastically upscale their operation. The Myrmidon project would be able to go from a we-are-laying-the-groundwork-for-our-grandchildren kind of project to a we-can-do-this-in-our-lifetime kind of project; going from a handful of easily hidden facilities that could produce a couple hundred Myrmidons at a time to much grander set of secret facilities that could produce legion after legion of Myrmidons at a practical timescale.


On Pyrrha's humility: I'd say that the conspirators would view humility as a desirable trait in their artificial messiah. For both the less awful and true believers among them that humility is a reassurance that Pyrrha will take council from the conspiracy's leadership once everything is in place and Pyrrha assumes her role as the Myrmidons' leader. The more awful among them think Pyrrha's humility will make her more controllable as she won't go full god-complex-diva so long as she is humble.

So that's why the conspiracy is happy Pyrrha is humble and will encourage it when they can. As for why Pyrrha is so genuinely humble? I can see there being a religious reason for it. Most of our real world's Greek mythology's hero myths involve stories with a moral about the dangers of hubris after all, so it wouldn't be surprising if Remnant's equivalent carried similar warnings.

Her humility could also come from how her parents have raised her. Athena has always put her whole heart into every role she's played and the conspiracy is having her play the role a messiah's mother: anything less than perfect parenting won't do.


And yes Pyrrha's relationship with her parents is much better in this version of the setting. A good chunk of Athena's issues stem from her not knowing who she is without the mask and choosing the wrong masks. Here she's wearing a mask she has no problems fully becoming, and so she becomes it and knows who she is.

On top of that politicking within the conspiracy was less corrosive to Athena's husband Peleus' soul than politicking in show business was. As a result he remained a decent husband to Athena and was a decent father figure for Pyrrha.

So yeah, better relations with her parents all around.



Is all that helpful?


The next part of our conversation was this:

It's been quite helpful, but there's still some ground I'd like to cover. I've taken a bit of time to process, and I have a few more questions.

First of all, how much control do the conspirators have over aura quantity and semblances of the clones?

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They've gotten good at ensuring each clone ends up with a variant of Polarity that's similar enough to the baseline for a standardized training regime to work, and they've more or less gotten aura quantity and quality consistently on target for each new batch of clones.

There would still be a handful of outliers since aura and semblances fall within the domain of the soul so mortal sciences will never fully master forcing them into a desired shape, but these outliers should be rare since they've spent so long perfecting the genetic and psychological parts of the equation.

Outliners with less combat applicable semblances are shuffled into either the logistical or medical tracks, essentially being trained to act as camp followers for their more regular Myrmidon sisters. Outliers with combat applicable semblances are rigorously tested to see what they can do: those who fail to impress are also shuffled into the camp follower programs, but those who do impress are given customized training to act as special agents to be kept in the army's back pocket and called on in unique scenarios where their non-standard semblance might provide a solution.

Secondly, we've talked about how Pyrrha herself is the custom-built supersoldier version, while the majority of the clones are designed for mass production. How many "grades" or "castes" of Myrmidon are there in between in the currently mature production run? Does it go straight from "basic infantry" to "high-tier huntress," or are there a couple of "elite soldier" or "special forces" castes in between?

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I'd say there'd be something like four and two-half grades when it comes to "Power Levels." You have the regular Myrmidons at the bottom, those designed to be squad leaders/team captains a rung up from them, the next rung up would be those designed to be the elites/generals that are directly beneath the champion of champions rung Pyrrha was designed to occupy.

The two half grades are for the outliers. The Myrmidons lumped into the camp followers program are technically on the same bottom rung as the regular Myrmidons and technically a half-step below them when it comes to combat powers. It really depends on the individual outlier.

The outlier Myrmidons that are given specialist roles are a half grade because each specialist's exact placement on the "power level" scale can vary wildly. Some are on the same level as the regulars, some are up there with the best of the best.

The next question requires some context. I kind of want to derail Cinder's plans, and doing something with Lionheart to set off the Mistrali Civil War early seems like a thematic way to do that.

So, to what degree has Lionheart been using his contingent of Myrmidons to advance Salem's goals, and what excuses has he been giving them?

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Lionheart has sent his personal Myrmidons on assassination missions, but that's the obvious thing. Less obviously he's sent them on a number of Grimm hunts: Salem doesn't micromanage every Grimm after all so switching to her side means that Grimm can still cause problems for him.

For one thing strategically culling Mistral's Huntsmen and Huntresses creates gaps in the Kingdom's defenses and there are times where Lionheart will need to close one of the gaps he's made for one reason or another. Like if he wants to hide that a gap exists from other people in authority or if Grimm moving through a gap could threaten one of his interests.

So several of the jobs he uses the Myrmidons for wouldn't look suspicious to them at all since they can't see enough of the big picture to realize that he's using them to hide how badly the Kingdom's defenses have been compromised. And if one of them does realize that Lionheart has deliberately created holes in Mistral's defenses? The Myrmidons exist as part of a revolutionary conspiracy that seeks to obtain independence from Mistral proper and creatively reinterpret some borders to the benefit of the Hellenic League; weakening the power of the central government alines with their goals.

And so Lionheart wouldn't need to give his Myrmidons a lot of excuses to justify most of the missions he sends them on, and when a mission does need justification it wouldn't be hard for him to sell it as weakening an enemy of the League.

Which brings us to your next question:

Also, supposing that a means of exposing Lionheart's alleigance to Salem could be achieved, would Lionheart's Myrmidons turn on him, or does their conditioning go too deep?

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It really depends on how long the cloning conspiracy loans out the Myrmidons to Lionheart. Like are they permanently on loan? And if not do they always lend him the same ones or not?

At the moment I'd say he has one or two Myrmidon teams that were given to him permanently, two or three teams that are frequently loaned out to him as the need arises and then a few more teams that are loaned out to him every once in a while.

The teams that have been permanently loaned to him he's probably worked with long enough to have made them loyal to him first and foremost. The teams he's regularly loaned could go either way, and the team he's loaned just every once in a while would probably turn on him if they perceive his actions as a betrayal of the Hellenic League and the cloning conspiracy.


Lionheart has probably toyed with the idea of nurturing the most promising and loyal of his personal Myrmidons into a Pyrrha replacement should the opportunity to try and replace Pyrrha ever present itself. While I don't think the most glaring opportunity for him to try such a thing will happen in your take on the idea this Lionheart loyalist Myrmidon could make for an interesting mirror match foil fight for Pyrrha.

On a related note (and this one goes to both of you), what are the breaks and schedule of the second semester leading up to the Vytal Tournament in the Fall?

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I don't have things lined up on a calendar, so I think Andrew should weigh in on that question.

On the topic of Myrmidon conditioning, what exactly does it entail? What do they believe about Pyrrha, about their purpose, about non-Hellenes, and (after the engagement) about Jaune?

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That's a good question and I'm going to give it some deep thought. I'll try and have an answer for you before Sunday is over.


And then we had this exchange:

On the topic of Myrmidon conditioning, what exactly does it entail? What do they believe about Pyrrha, about their purpose, about non-Hellenes, and (after the engagement) about Jaune?

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So at the moment I don't think any of the Myrmidons have gone through any kind of accelerated aging for a number of reasons. The conspirators didn't want to risk introducing any accelerated aging genes to the general population after they've won their victory and are in a position to start disbanding Myrmidon units. The founders of the conspiracy already expected it to be the work of generations so they planned to take their time ensuring quality, making accelerated aging an unnecessary complication. Finally accelerated aging would cut the active service life of a fully trained Myrmidon in half which is not the return on investment the conspirators are looking for.

As such the conspiracy has all of childhood and the teenage years to shape their Myrmidons into the soldiers and warriors they wish them to be. The education of the Myrmidons begins shortly after they leave the cloning facility's nursery, where they are placed in a more or less normal seaming preschool environment. During these preschool years the Myrmidons are closely monitored to see if they're actually developing along the lines they were designed to so their trainers know where to slot them once they're ready to graduate from the preschool setting.

The specialists and the elites are given a more broad and personalized education because they're expected to be the problem solvers in the field and therefore need a more flexible knowledge base, while the rank and file Myrmidons are given a more narrow education since they're expected to follow the lead of their superiors. Both educations are highly propaganda filled extolling the virtues of the conspiracy's dominant ideology.

As for what this education told them about Pyrrha and their relationship to her? Pyrrha is a demigoddess of war, and they revere her as such. Now that doesn't mean they think Pyrrha is inherently perfect and can do no wrong, but Pyrrha would have to majorly screw up before the average Myrmidon would question her orders.

The Myrmidon's believe their purpose is to protect and serve the Hellenic League (or at least the conspiracy's vision of the league) according to the will of the conspiracy's inner circle who act as the voice of Olympus, and they will be lead in this endeavor by the demigoddess made flesh that is Pyrrha.

Their education gave them a deep pride in Hellenic culture, the pagan version of that culture specifically. One could describe them as cultural chauvinists, as they think all peoples would be better off following the teachings of the old pagan philosophers and paying homage to the gods and goddesses of Olympus (or whatever Remnant's equivalent of Olympus is called).

This complicates their feelings towards Jaune. They don't care that he's not ethnically Hellenic, but they do care that he isn't culturally Hellenic. At the same time they don't like the idea of second guessing Pyrrha, and she clearly thinks he's fantastic so Jaune has to be the ideal man, right?

So Jaune has the potential to be a stumbling block for the ideology the conspiracy has taught the Myrmidons, and what conclusion each individual Myrmidon reaches about him is a good marker as to who that Myrmidon will side with if/when Pyrrha ends up in conflict with the leaders of the conspiracy.



Was all that helpful?

I hate to ask this while you're still thinking about things, but do you have any ideas for specific characters involved in the conspiracy? Because if not, I just spent about an hour coming up with "close-enough" Greek equivalents to the cast of the board game Clue.

They fit... surprisingly well. Or perhaps not-so-surprisingly, given that they were all supposed to be shady characters in the first place.

I'm especially fond of 'Chilliarch Alcibiades "The Colonel" Moustakas,' 'Hierarch Thallo "The Reverent" Floros' ("Isn't Thallo a Girl's Name?" "Young lady, you have no idea how many times that's been pointed out to me"), and 'Professor Thanasis "Doc" Porphyry' (he's professor, not doctor - he lost his medical license the first time he got involved in a "eugenics by clone saturation" project).

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The only concrete characters I already had for the conspiracy would be the prototype Myrmidons know as Myrmex and Tiresias. Myrmex being the first truly successful prototype who was everything the conspirators were looking when it comes to combat prowess but had a noticeable aesthetic flaw that disqualified her from being the poster girl. Most of the prototypes made after Myrmex were efforts to match her level of power without that aesthetic flaw. Myrmex is a true believer and will be Pyrrha's greatest supporter if she goes along with the conspiracy... and her greatest foe if she rejects the conspiracy and subverts the other Myrmidons. I'm thinking Myrmex played the role of one of Pyrrha's older cousins as Pyrrha was growing up and helped with some of her training.

Tiresias would be one of the follow up prototypes who was born blind. This pushed her variant of Polarity's magnetic senses to their most extreme, allowing her to sense things you wouldn't expect a magnetic detection power to sense and allowing her to fight as if she's a combat precognitive. She also played the role of an older cousin to Pyrrha and helped her learn how to sense things with Polarity.


So with me only having them I'd love to see the characters you've brainstormed. My family didn't own Clue so I never got a chance to play it while I was growing up, but looking at the list of characters I found on wikipedia I'd say it should be a good source for inspiration for the conspirators, it's a surprisingly deep well since each edition of the game had a different spin on each character. You could easily make a different character based off of each variation of Ms. Peacock for example, like the femme fatal grand dame original Ms. Peacock could be the inspiration for a financial backer of the conspiracy while the ornithologist Henrietta Peacock could be used as inspiration for one of the scientists and so on.

So what characters did you come up with and what roles do you see them playing in the conspiracy?


The Next part of our conversation:

So, here's my first draft of a "Factions and Characters" rundown. Any feedback and input would be appreciated:

Factions:

Suppressionist - the Breakers need to be reeducated and forcibly converted to the old ways.

Incentivized Conversion - the Breakers can be allowed to practice freely, but cannot be allowed to proselytize, and will not receive the same political/economic opportunities as Pagans.

Tolerance - the Breakers should be allowed the same opportunities as Pagans - Pyrrha's charisma and the Truth of Olympus will win out in the end.

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That's a sensible list for factions within the conspiracy. It's probably the clearest place for disagreements within the inner circle as things stand now.

Chairman Georgos Sophocleus
- The mastermind behind the conspiracy.
- Probably the guy I have the least idea how to characterize.
- Part of the "Incentivised Conversion" Faction (partly due to personal opinion, partly due to the needs of maintaining relative neutrality).

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So looking at the Clue character list I found I'm presuming that Georgos is based off of Mr. Body/Dr. Black? I.e. the guy who's normally the murdered host whose death is being investigated in a regular game of Clue?

Yeah I can see why it'd be hard to nail down a concrete characterization for a character based on him, since his most notable trait in the original game is being dead during the timeframe of your play sessions. That doesn't leave a lot of room for characterization in the game itself and from what little I know of Clue's ancillary media he doesn't receive much focus beyond "Guy whose death gets the plot rolling" most of the time.

With that in mind I'm thinking we need to take a long and hard look at his narrative purpose/role in the world and pick out the character traits that helped him get to his current place in the world alongside the traits that will help him to fulfill his purpose in the narrative.

His narrative purpose is that of a big bad, one that's cut from a different cloth than the other big bads already found in RWBY. That is to say he'd be more of a spy/political thriller villain than a dark lord.

So he's a man of wealth and means that has a vision for his nation incompatible with the current world order. He'd need to be both charismatic and affable to both gather the eclectic group that is the Inner Circle and to manage their different personalities whenever serious disagreements popped up.

Now as the big bad of the cloning conspiracy story there needs to be a concrete reason as to why our heroes cannot truly compromise with him at the end of the day. So what lines is he willing to cross that will be a bridge too far for Pyrrha, Jaune and their friends?

Any of that helpful?

Lady Dimitria "Scarlet" Kokkinaki
- Basically a rising star of the Hellenic underworld, she has quite a few politicians on her payroll, and quite a few more as notches in her bedpost, and said politicians are, for all intents and purposes, now helping cover for the conspiracy.
- I see her as being roughly the same age as Cinder - older than the main cast, but younger than Team STRQ's generation. She's a classic Femme Fatale crossed with a ruthless mobster, and she also has an axe to grind against the Breaker Church and the status quo (we'll have to discuss the details with Andrew, but I'd like to think that it's as pants-on-head stupid as Hazel's reasons for hating Ozpin - and possibly involving the criminal activities of her parents/grandparents having been broken up by Paladins of the Church).
- Accordingly, she's a member of the "Suppressionist" Faction of the conspiracy.

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So she's the youngest member of the Inner Circle and is probably going to be the most adversarial member towards Jaune and Pyrrha's relationship.

And yeah, having a pants-on-head stupid reason for her hatred of the Breaker Church sounds like it could be fun.

Chilliarch Alcibiades "The Colonel" Moustakas
- "Beware the Old Man in a Profession where Men Die Young."
- This guy was badass enough that his genes make up nearly 50% of the Myrmidon genome. In his prime, he taught the first generation (including Myrmex) almost everything they know about combat, and to this day, being able to beat him in a fight (armed or unarmed) is a mark of pride for a Myrmidon. He still teaches tactics and strategy. He is also "Peacock" Pagoni's lover.
- He thinks that Breaker teachings about forgiveness and meekness are for the weak, and is, therefore, part of the "Suppressionist" faction.

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So Chilliarch is the biggest physical threat if the story ends up with a combat encounter with the Inner Circle. And as one of the chief genetic donors to the project he has a bit of Jango Fett in him.

I'd imagine he'd have at least tested Pyrrha before she began her gladiatorial career if he wasn't directly involved with her training, just to make sure she can go the distance the conspiracy needs her to go.

Doctor Eirini "The Nursemaid" Argyri
- Psychologist in charge of the Myrmidon indoctrination regimen.
- She's basically the closest thing any of the (higher-ranking specialist/elite) Myrmidons have ever known to a mother. Balancing the needs of "making sure they're loyal, stable, and capable of reentering society after the war" and "making sure they believe in the cause and will always obey orders" is putting a lot of strain on her.
- Part of the "Incentivized Conversion" Faction.

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So I'd imagine she'd either be the more sympathetic members of the Inner Circle or the most controversial member of the Inner Circle with the whole balancing act she's trying to pull off.

Hierarch Thallo "The Reverent" Floros
- Current High Priest of Zeus (or equivalent deity) and Spiritual Heart of the Myrmidon Conspiracy.
- Actually surprisingly chill and compassionate, he believes that Aslan was actually a demigod Zeus sired, whose deeds and teachings have been partially misinterpreted by the Breaker Faith. In that capacity, he prays to Aslan alongside Herakles and other apotheosized demigods.
- Accordingly, he's the main driver of the "Tolerance" Faction of the conspiracy.

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It's interesting to see that the person driving the "Tolerance" faction is the man most people would least expect at a first glance. I like it.

Lady Penelope "Peacock" Pagoni
- The Conspiracy's primary financial backer, and an additional source of political clout.
- She's a classical Femme Fatale Grand Dame, with a lot of connections to the Hellenic "establishment" figures, though beyond that, I'm not particularly sure of her characterization. Though I suspect that she treats the Myrmidons as her grandchildren, and is therefore loved by them.
- Part of the "Tolerance' Faction, as she doesn't want to see her old friends torn down for something as silly as buying into the superstitions of Aelia Paravel.

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Hmm... So she believes the war needs to happen enough to pay for the creation of a clone army that will ultimately bear the brunt of the sacrifice that goes into war. At the same time she treats the resulting clones like they're her grandchildren.

There could be some potential in the dichotomy that can be found in that.

Professor Thanasis "Doc" Porphyry
- This is the mad scientist in charge of the actual cloning/genetic engineering project.
- His thesis of "positive eugenics" by flooding the gene pool with "genetically perfect" specimens got his medical license revoked. Georgos met up with him soon after, and the two realized that they could make their interests align. Thus the Myrmidon Conspiracy was born.
- Doesn't actually care about religion.

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So Thanasis is onboard because his experiment will be conducted as a side effect of victory.

I like it. I like it a lot.

It's worth noting that I intend for most of the friendships and personal connections in the conspiracy to cross factional lines, enabling the entire thing to keep stable despite differing visions.

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Having the strongest friendships in the Inner Circle cross faction lines is a very good idea.



Also when I was looking at the list of Clue characters I found out that from 2016 to 2022 Ms. White was actually fully replaced by a lady called Dr. Orchid (Ms. White returned in the 2023 edition). Dr. Orchid's different incarnations across the games she was in was usually a biologist of some kind and her very first incarnation in the 2016 edition of Clue Dr. Orchid was an adoptive daughter of Mr. Body/Dr. Black.

So Orchid could be used as inspiration for another scientist involved in the project that isn't part of the Inner Circle yet, but she expects to be at some point because of her connections to people within the Inner Circle.


And the next part of our conversation after that, a post with Hahoalki quoting me:

Now as the big bad of the cloning conspiracy story there needs to be a concrete reason as to why our heroes cannot truly compromise with him at the end of the day. So what lines is he willing to cross that will be a bridge too far for Pyrrha, Jaune and their friends?

Any of that helpful?

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Very helpful, actually.

I'm thinking I'm going to have to watch Gargoyles, see if I can get any inspiration from Xanatos.

But for the big "uncrossable line," it depends on how big his ambitions are. Where, exactly, does he want the borders to fall after the Mistrali Civil War?

If Geogrgos is trying to rebuild Iskander's empire, then conquering Pandu strikes me as a line that Jaune would be absolutely unwilling to cross - his godparents have treated him far too well for that.

Even if his ambitions are closer to home, - say, everything on the shores of Lake Matsu - I can see Aelia Paravel being on this guy's "to conquer" list. Needless to say, Jaune would not be on board with that.

The big issue is that Jaune doesn't start out having the political capital to extricate his fiance from the conspiracy (it goes without saying that Pyrrha wants out - the whole thing is creepy to her, and way more pressure than she's comfortable with, and puts her on a pedestal to boot), so he has to play along for a bit.

I'm beginning to think that the plan to use Jaune's family connections might blow up in the conspirators' faces when Jaune starts pulling on those threads himself to apply pressure towards his own ends (getting Pyrrha through the war safely, along with as many of her "cousins" as he can manage).



Hahoalki also posted this:


Don't mean to spam, but I do want to keep this in your mind, as I could still use advice.

In the meantime, I've come up with prospective names for units of Myrmidons. Note that the numbers listed display only the "tooth" personnel. "Tail"/support personnel would increase the size of most of the larger units.

Needless to say, the whole system is loosely based on the Macedonian army of Phillip and Alexander.

Aight, here goes:

Tetradion: 4 Myrmidons
Tetradiagos: Team Leader

Lochos: 16 Myrmidons (4 Tetradia)
Lochagos: Leader of a Lochos

Hexekostys: 64 Myrmidons (4 Lochoi)
Hexekonter: Leader of a Hexekostys

Syntagma: 256 Myrmidons (4 Hexekostyai)
Syntagmatarch: Leader of a Syntagma

Taxis: 1,536 Myrmidons (6 Syntagmata)
Strategos: Leader of a Taxis

Phalanx: 9,216 Myrmidons (6 Taxeis)
Phalangiarch: Leader of a Phalanx

I would imagine that the Phalanx Entire would have an equal number of "tooth" and "tail" personnel, for a grand total of 18,000 or more women. In other words, it would be a division.

The Taxis, if deployed on its own, would perhaps have a total of 1,000-ish integral support personnel, making the unit as a whole regiment sized.

The Syntagma might have 100-ish integral support personnel, for total of 350-ish. About the size of a small battalion.

Smaller units may not need integral support personnel.

Syntagmatarchai and up may be chosen from a specialized "Officer Caste" of Myrmidon, while Lochagoi and Hexekonters may belong to an NCO/Junior Officer caste.

The "Elite Supersoldier" Caste should probably be a different thing from the "Officer" Caste, just because you're optimizing for different things in the two cases.

Pyrrha herself would be an (expensive?) attempt to combine the virtues of the "Elite" and "Officer" castes in a single individual.


So, on my assumptions, the "Caste System" might look a little more like the following:

Standard - still superior to most soldiers, but mass-producible (and thus probably "only" equivalent to low-tier huntsmen?).

Elite - highly optimized soldier designed to match or defeat medium- (and perhaps even high-) tier huntsmen.

Leader - better than average intelligence and combat ability (for a Myrmidon), but not at the level of either the Elite Caste or the Officer Caste in either category, being a "happy medium" between the two extremes.

Officer - has the same combat skill level as a Standard Caste (ie, better than average soldier, and comparable to low-tier huntsmen), but highly optimized for intelligence, intuition, and strategic thinking.

Champion of Champions - instead of being a "compromise" design like the Leader Caste, Pyrrha is designed to fully combine the intelligence of the Officer Caste with the combat-skill of the Elite Caste, producing a "genius bruiser" suitable for use as a figurehead and spiritual liege.


Depending on the "error rate" in aura/semblance margins, there may need to be a dedicated "Support Caste" - for things like logistics, transport, artillery, etc.

----------

I would like thoughts regarding my plot ideas before we get into revising the Caste System, if that's possible.

Either way, take as much time as you need.



And my commentary on his plot ideas was this:

I've also been thinking about how the characters react to things, as well as timing of events.

Rough outline in my head:

Early/Mid March: inter-semester break, this is where and when the engagement happens. One week of Nick training Jaune intensively, at the latter's request. Learns basic Aura Slash technique, but isn't good/effective/consistent yet.

Late March/Early April: Exchange Students arrive, Arslan "confronts" Pyrrha.

Mid April: Vytal Festival Dance, Cinder infects CCT network.

Late April: The Breach.

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So introducing the change and then running through a few familiar story arcs to see how the change affects the world. Make sense.

Late May: Tangy encounters a Myrmidon, reports it to Jaune and Pyrrha. Jaune contacts Arslan, teams ABRN, RWBY and JNPR start planning a trip to Mistral.

Mid June: Events of Grimm Eclipse? Might get mentioned in passing, depending on utility for the story.

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Seems like a sensible enough place to put Grimm Eclipse if you decide to adapt it for the story. It could be a good place for Teams JNPR and RWBY to learn how to work with Team ABRN in the field.

Early August: End of second semester, three teams go to Mistral.

Mid August: Jaune starts noticing some worrying patterns involving the discrepancy between huntsman mortality rates and Grimm attack rates. Brainstorming happens. He uses his AP Statistics class (the one that Isabel made him take) to look for statistically significant correlations between "Location and Nature of a Huntsman's Last Mission" and "Odds of Huntsman Disappearing," and finds something (tbd). He then looks through the list of current missions on the Huntsman boards, and pitches his plan (basically, camp out at a couple of high-risk sites until they see something happen) to RWBY and ABRN.

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Jaune catching onto the problem because of civilian studies most Hunters wouldn't bother with is a good idea. I'm guessing they're looking into the attacks and disappearances to try and find the Myrmidons that attacked Arslan in order to confirm their suspicions.

Late August: the three teams encounter Tyrian Callows while "camping" a mission site that would have been taken by a Hellenic huntsman. Jaune gets stung protecting Pyrrha, but the good guys buy enough time for the Myrmidon Team that's been tailing them since they arrived in Mistral to step in, and Tyrian is forced to flee.

The Myrmidons in question are currently operating under orders from the conspiracy, but they're one of the "once in a while" teams that have done wetwork for Lionheart in the past. And they've done enough spying on the team to know that this confirms the worst possible scenario - someone with access to Mistral's official mission board system has been culling huntsmen of all nationalities, and Lionheart is complicit.

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So the Myrmidon team that found them was a team that was somewhat suspicious of Lionheart for some reason then? And then them comparing notes is what exposes Lionheart's betrayal to them.

Sounds like it could work.

This is about where I lose the thread. I know Pyrrha's reaction (she's having an identity crisis), and I think I have a pretty good idea of Jaune's reaction ("somebody is using my fiance's cousins as child soldiers, and I am not amused - it is nice to meet the in-laws, though; glad her family is almost as weird as mine"), and the Myrmidons (seeing as they saw Jaune take a pretty serious injury for their Demigoddess of War) will probably have a higher opinion of Jaune than they started with, but Chairman Sophocleus is still too fuzzy for me to know how the Conspiracy as a whole will react to the sudden revelation that one of their collaborators is playing both sides and trying to destroy civilization as a whole.

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Hmmm...

So we need to figure out how Sophocleus and the rest of the inner circle were originally planning to reveal the Myrmidons to Pyrrha, and from there we can figure out how they'll try to salvage the sales pitch now that the reveal is out of their hands.

And with that figured out we'll know how Sophocleus and the inner circle will try to get Jaune and the rest of Pyrrha's friends to play along, and what the tone of their relationship will be before the inevitable break.

Obviously, they'll start moving against Lionheart and reaching out to their contacts, but I haven't figured out the timescale, nor do I know how much they care about legitimacy.

Do they use one of the teams they know they can trust to spy on Lionheart until concrete evidence of wrongdoing is uncovered? In that case, I'd probably have them find out about the plans for the Fall of Beacon, and set the stage for their own "counter-invasion" of Myrmidons to keep things from going as badly as they did in canon. This probably includes a sideplot involving Pyrrha bonding with Penny over being artificial beings, and ultimately derailing Cinder's plan to have Pyrrha kill Penny on TV.

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So they bring a collection of Myrmidons with them back to Beacon and help thwart Cinder's plans.

But there's a wildcard option: fabricated evidence (using Jaune's statistical model combined with reports from loyal "loan-out" Myrmidons as a framework to ensure consistency with actual events) and a more "instantaneous" response prior to the Vytal Festival. The conspirators have just had the perfect casus belli dropped in their laps, and no revolutionary ever lets a good crisis go to waste.

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I could see this being a hotly debated issue within the Inner Circle. On the one hand having a few more years to prepare and get all their pieces in place is good; I figure they were probably aiming for somewhere between Pyrrha's twenty-fifth and twenty-seventh birthday to have everything ready, so they might be worried about the things that aren't in place yet.

On the other hand a perfect cases belli is a hard thing to pass up, and the realization that Lionheart's agenda is less compatible with their's than they thought could make them worried that he planned to pull the trigger before they were ready anyways.

So yeah that would be a pretty intense debate.

More details on Jaune's approach to the conspiracy: given that the Tolerance faction has the edge for now, and given that he doesn't personally have sufficient clout to fully extricate Pyrrha from their machinations (to say nothing of the rest of his cousins-in-law) in the early stages of the encounter (lead-up to the Vytal Festival), I think he'd agree to go along with things as long as he doesn't have to compromise his faith. He is Pyrrha's rock through the entire ordeal, and his primary goal when dealing with the conspiracy is to get her through the events of the impending Civil War/World War safely. He intends to use them the same way they're trying to use him.

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Makes sense, and I like it.

Speaking of the conspiracy using Jaune, the initial premise is that the Conspiracy wants Arturia's connections. Which connections, specifically, are they going to try to exploit, and when?

Andrew, you should probably chime in on this last one. And at any point, you can correct my misconceptions about the characters, or help fill in gaps.

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The thing that using Jaune for Arturia's connections that they'd have a hard time getting without him is probably legitimacy to foreigners. Pyrrha's a big enough deal to obtain a certain level of legitimacy within Mistral all on her own, but that doesn't guarantee people in Atlas or Vale would be sympathetic enough to the Hellenic League's struggle to either stay out or covertly support it. Arturia's connections might let them get that.


And our last major exchange:

(in response to the Myrmidon team that's involved with uncovering Lionheart's tomfoolery)

More like the Conspirators noticed that Pyrrha was coming to Mistral with Arslan, and decided they needed to keep an eye on that, with the result being that the Conspirators become aware of Lionheart's treachery as soon as JNPR and Company do.

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Gotcha. That makes sene.

That whole "original plan for the reveal" thing is tricky to me.

"You're a genetically engineered living weapon that we intend to use to gain independence from Mistral at large, and most of your life up until this point has been a lie," is going to be a very hard sell even under the best of circumstances, and even before Pyrrha finds a bunch of clones of herself, that'll be obvious to the Conspirators.

So they need a lie of their own, or they need a way to make Pyrrha feel "okay" with their machinations being her "Destiny" that's plausible enough for them to think it would work.

I don't know what that would look like, but I think I can come up with some elements that might help them "spin" things.

Pyrrha isn't the first attempt at a Champion of Champions. She is the third. The first two were basically miscarriages (something something "optimizing for charisma and combat instinct without compromise isn't easy" something something). Pyrrha is also the first Myrmidon whose "incubator" was mobile enough to be taken to the Temple of Zeus for a blessing, and this is what the majority of the conspiracy attributes her survival and health to.

Bonus points if it was Hierarch Floros himself who performed the blessing. Still more if he's maintained a close relationship with Pyrrha from her childhood, and he's the one who breaks the news to her.

The general idea is that her genotype was always "too ambitious," and "Doc" Porphyry can't explain her survival. Thus almost everybody associated with the conspiracy (including the people she's been close to and feels like she can trust - Athena, Hierarch Floros, Myrmex) believes her to be a literal Gift from the Gods (Porphyry excepted, solely because he doesn't care about religion, though even he admits that he doesn't have a better hypothesis).

What's missing is a reason why they didn't tell her, and while we can probably come up with one that theythink sounds good, that's always going to be a deal-breaking sticking point for her.

Of course, if they can spin things so that she feels like she is some kind of Divine Gift, she might (reluctantly) go along with their plans anyway.

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I'm thinking they had a lie of their own prepared, mixing old myths and legends to form a prophecy that would serve as the foundation of their legitimacy. Some spectacle that would make the grand reveal of the Myrmidons look like an act of divine providence instead of the work of a secret society in the shadows. The original plan involved Pyrrha being part of the spectacle, to give her the impression that she was the one who had performed a miracle both to the public and herself.


As for what that miracle is/was? At the moment I'm thinking the conspiracy has gotten their hands on a magical artifact from the pre-Moonshatter era: a set of mirrors that were enchanted so they could be used as portals between each other. One of these mirrors would be located at a Hellenic holy site, perhaps directly incorporated into the base of a temple's idolatrous statue or something; the rest of the mirrors would be located at the hidden cloning facilities.

What was supposed to happen was that Pyrrha would be brought to pray at the holy site for a public relations stunt meant to reassure the public as rumors of war were becoming too big to ignore. Pyrrha would pray before the mirror, perhaps perform a sacrifice or some other grand ritual in front of it, and once she was done she would look upon the mirror to see an army of herself in the reflection. The army marches out, and publicly pledges their fealty to the Champion of Champions Pyrrha Nikos.

The mirror, let's call it the Mirror of Perseus or something, would continue to disgorge Myrmidons at regular intervals as the war progresses; only ceasing once victory has been unquestionably won.



Of course with the conspiracy exposed before they were ready the conspiracy finds themselves in the same place as the Klingon Monks that cloned Kahless The Unforgettable; trying to spin the whole debacle as them following the will of the divine instead of them trying to make a power play.

Using complications in the creation process that Pyrrha theoretically shouldn't have survived but did anyways is defiantly a good starting place for that spin, and I really like the ideas you have in that department.



Any of that helpful?



Another thought I've had is with the Myrmidon squads loyal to Lionheart. Specifically with the Myrmidon he could potentially be grooming to serve as a replacement for Pyrrha loyal to him first and foremost should the opportunity to replace Pyrrha present itself.

Since Pyrrha is a Rule 63 allusion to Achilles she gets her name from the female alter ego Achilles was disguised as when those who cared about him were trying to keep him from going off to war. However other sources give different names to Achilles female alter ego, these names being Cercysera or Aissa. Those could be good names for the Myrmidon team leaders loyal to Lionheart.

On the other hand the death of Achilles battle brother Patroclus came about because Patroclus agreed to wear Achilles' armor and lead the mythological Myrmidons while pretending to be Achilles so the Trojans wouldn't know that Achilles was skulking in his tent and refusing to fight because his girl got stollen. So making a Myrmidon who Lionheart moulded to be a replacement for Pyrrha should the opportunity to replace Pyrrha ever present itself a Rule 63 allusion to Patroclus might be a good idea. The problem is I can't find a good feminine version of Patroclus' name.

Anyways what do you think?

 

[Bommel]

Yang being tsundere towards Jaune could be interesting to explore. Unlike Weiss' stuffy princess-style tsundere, Yang is more like a bullying childhood friend: She does actually really like Jaune but she's not sure how to approach it genuinely. Sure, she can flirt to get things she wants, or to tease, but genuine romantic feelings scare her. She's not sure how to approach Jaune, so she bullies him. Often to the point people think she's his wife with how she pesters him to train, look after himself and so on.

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Personally I think that Yang would be more like a shy tomboy-style tsundere, rather than a bullying childhood friend.

She'd try to play off the more intimate moments as just things bros do, romantic activities as just something between guy friends (she just happens to be a girl, not like she can help it).
A bit like Tomo-chan Is a Girl, but a bit more deliberatly.
Yang might also be embaraced that she can't admit her feelings and her first instinct is to act like bros around Jaune, when she actually wants to act feminine and use her feminine wiles to seduce Jaune (and has trouble noticing when Jaune is interested in her or moments where he has feelings for her).

 

[AndrewJTalon]

Personally I think that Yang would be more like a shy tomboy-style tsundere, rather than a bullying childhood friend.

She'd try to play off the more intimate moments as just things bros do, romantic activities as just something between guy friends (she just happens to be a girl, not like she can help it).
A bit like Tomo-chan Is a Girl, but a bit more deliberatly.
Yang might also be embaraced that she can't admit her feelings and her first instinct is to act like bros around Jaune, when she actually wants to act feminine and use her feminine wiles to seduce Jaune (and has trouble noticing when Jaune is interested in her or moments where he has feelings for her).

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Ooh, I like that too. Again, for Yang romance all we get is the Way Too Perfect Lesbian Bullshit with Blake.

(If I sound bitter it's only because I've had to rewatch scenes from the later volumes and it has REALLY pissed me off).

Yang is a big sister who does know how to use her sexuality to get what she wants, but when it comes to genuine feeling, she's unable to do it. And yes, Tomo-chan is a Girl is a perfect basis to use! What else?