With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[jasonh23761]

you have a point-
Von Braun almost certainly knew his rockets were being built with slave labor, and the US was almost desperately eager to parden him for their rocketry program-
not to mention the blanket pardons the Japanese biowar program got in exchange for surviving hardcopies of their research, after... urgh.. the.... you know.
the whole "gags and straps" vivisection program/"injecting american POW's in the kidneys with horse urine"and worse thing...

hell, most pollies would (in private/off the record) call Sivana's price HILARIOUSLY cheap for making their latest problem go away, even if he had a bodycount matching OL's....

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Yeah, that whole thing was a travesty.

Though if you want a solid example of a truly terrible person basically getting a pass, let me introduce you to Nobusuke Kishi.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

See, I don't know that I'd think that far.

If I'm being honest, were there one ring to be attracted to me. I'd imagine it'd be a Red ring. Which I imagine would not help my temper in the slightest. Of course, canon rings turn their users into mindless berserkers, so I'd already be changing things.

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Yeah if I'm being honest I'd only be able to use a yellow ring or Maybe a green or blue one.

And I can't see myself bothering with all the evidence gathering and reporting and trusting in the courts when I can just yank someone into deep space and find out just what actually happens. Because dead is dead, and there isn't a punishment worse than dead.

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Oh no nothing about trusting the courts if anything I'd try and manipulate parliaments to reinstate the death penalty for the specific crimes involved.
I just want to be able to live without being hassled after I'm done. People won't ask why I killed someone when I've plastered evidence of them committing child rape (or some such crime) all over the internet.

I've honestly never understood the whole "Lets leave them in a cage until they die." Thing. Like...I could just do it now? Save everyone a lot of time? Plus, the whole comic cardboard prisons.

I can just see myself getting really annoyed and given the ring going "You know what....fuck you and everything in a mile radius around you." Then later having a "Oh....I should not have done that." Then sadly having to admit that I don't care that I shouldn't have done that.

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Ya see that's how to get the local universes, anomalous persons, to kill you in your sleep or some shit.

I mean, its just how I personally think.

I'm not big into sci-fi or tech and the like. Were I writing, I'm sure the ring would be far more powerful than Zoat portrays it. Just how I go about it.

As for villains trying to counter a power ring. I suppose my answer would be "you don't" or that the counter to the counter would be the ring itself.

I admit, I find the applications of a power ring more interesting than anything else I could have him carry. I also admit that, as I'm not into sci-fi, a Me SI would be more construct heavy than OL is.

In addition, I've always understood the effects of a power ring to be whatever the user thinks/wills them to be. So rather than carrying additional devices, in my mind...the ring just does it.

But that's me.

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And then 0% ring charge, you'd be like a guy with a rifle in the stone age.

I know just enough about Homelander to know that I don't care to know about Homelander. It's from "The boys" isn't it? Which means Garth Ennis.

Which means crap.

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Ah, in the amazon show he basically does whatever the fuck he wants and kills almost anyone who annoys him, however, he desperately seeks approval from other people which is why he doesn't literally kill everyone who annoys him.

Basically deep down he doesn't want to be hated by every other person on earth.

I don't remember much about the comics it's been too long since I read them.

 

[Vaermina]

More cracks, and more trees erupt through tarmac and concrete and unrealistic speeds. Perhaps I should be more surprised, but both the Accala and Euanthe have been open in their distaste for technocratic civilisation.

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You might wanna nip that in the butt before it becomes an actual problem...

 

[Mr Zoat]

Oh good, they won the Brazil war without fighting.

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There was quite a lot of fighting. Not much of it was Brazilian military versus Accala.

You have given rings to people that are much, much worse than him.

Kalmin being an example.

Also your future self will give a ring to a mad scientist that tried to destroy the environment and kill a bunch of kids, multiple times.

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Sivana doesn't have specific knowledge of how to make power rings.

'authorise'
'is either controlled'
'been convicted'
'on a'
maybe 'enough to support'
'contrast to'
'at unrealistic'

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Thank you, corrected.

So she's been teaching them some druidism or shamanism?

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No, Dr Isley has.

Is Fire still alive after the Sheeda invaded?

Are that Hitler clone and his family still alive?

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Yes in both cases.

Zoat, is Atlantis being attacked as well? Oh, and what about Themyscira? Because if they aren't or if they defend themselves well, they might be the only stable states left when all is said and done

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Atlantis, yes. Themyscira, no.

Heh! Euanthe's been busy I see
'Euanthe the God-Empress of Accala Brazil' has a nice ring to it.

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Accalacan.

Ah, yeah that would do it. The trade system looks more complicated then it actually is. Once you set the one trade route available to most nations, it basically runs itself except occasionally asking you to upgrade the trade node, which as far as I can tell costs nothing.

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Upgrading is free, but leveling the node to the point where you can upgrade it requires a lot of building work. I also feel that the volume of territory that I was controlling should have resulted in me having more caps than I did.

Random question. Mr Zoat, how would the Accala feel about Paul being good friends with their new god (Euanthe)?

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They don't know exactly what their relationship is. Probably wouldn't have any strong feelings about it. The Accala regard christianity as 'that nasty Portuguese religion' and had a separate pantheon anyway.

Zoat on the Spoiler tag on the first page it says that this is part 4 when it should be part 5.

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Darko]

No, Dr Isley has.

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Hmm, maybe Paul can show them how Hyathis' people live to help them develop their new society with druidism.

Sivana doesn't have specific knowledge of how to make power rings.

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Neither does Dr Blight, but Paul will apparently give her a ring.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Neither does Dr Blight, but Paul will apparently give her a ring.

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Considering her experience with the local equivalent of a Star Sapphire she might actually be closer to knowing how to than Sivana.

 

[Darko]

Considering her experience with the local equivalent of a Star Sapphire she might actually be closer to knowing how to than Sivana.

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Paul would still have people capable of making power rings working for or with him, even if he didn't recruit her, so she doesn't really offer all that much in the ring making area.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Paul would still have people capable of making power rings working for or with him, even if he didn't recruit her, so she doesn't really offer all that much in the ring making area.

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I know, I'm not even trying to defend the decision really, just pointing out that at the moment if Paul had access to her she might be a better candidate than Sivana to get the magic space-ring.

She needs regular therapy and counselling on how to manage her desires and reactions better, Sivana needs a bit more than that.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Try as she might, Dr Blight hasn't ever succeeded in doing anything as murderous as Sivana has.

 

[Darko]

I know, I'm not even trying to defend the decision really, just pointing out that at the moment if Paul had access to her she might be a better candidate than Sivana to get the magic space-ring.

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Not really. Blight is as crazy as Sivana and Paul already has people that can make rings working for or with him and he has several super geniuses to call upon, who also lack a lot of the manias Sivana and Blight have.

Try as she might, Dr Blight hasn't ever succeeded in doing anything as murderous as Sivana has.

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That can still mean that she has done murderous things, just not on the same level as Sivana, and given what she tried to do in the show it wouldn't be that surprising if she did some of those murderous things off screen.

Plus there's also human experimentation on unwilling subjects, which won't necessarily kill the subject, and is something she would do.

Oh, and that doesn't exactly change the fact that she still tried to murder people and destroy the environment, many, many times.

 

[Prince Charon]

Did they lead armies of slaves? If 'yes', they fail the test.

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That gets into 'did they have better plausible options, and how well-equipped the Jedi in general were to understand that they were leading a slave army' (the Jedi arguably being slaves themselves, but mostly not knowing or believing that they are), which is the sort of thing that leads to unresolvable arguments (because it depends on how one interprets the books/movies/comics/shows, many of which contradict each other).

 

[King of Frost]

Also your future self will give a ring to a mad scientist that tried to destroy the environment and kill a bunch of kids, multiple times.

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Don't forget that as soon as she had access to time travel the first thing she did was try to sell weapons to their version of Hitler.

 

[LostPath]

Krona should suggested as a challenge for Dr. Sivana after the Sheeda are defeated.

 

[Darko]

Krona should suggested as a challenge for Dr. Sivana after the Sheeda are defeated.

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Krona was beaten by the various versions of OL, along with one Starfire and at least one version of Jade, and shortly after that he was killed ky Krono, a version of Paul that ended up in the Fallout universe.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Yeah if I'm being honest I'd only be able to use a yellow ring or Maybe a green or blue one.

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I'd like to think I have the willpower to use a green ring. I've pushed past many a tough time/injury in training. But I could never work for the Guardians.

Just the idea of having something as powerful as a power ring, that can so easily be taken away for any reason they want, would give me anxiety like you wouldn't believe. I wouldn't want my mental health subjected to that.

And to this day, I'm not even sure how canon yellow rings even work. Back in the day, it seemed like they worked just like Green rings, but yellow colored. I mean, how do you Fear constructs into existence?

Oh no nothing about trusting the courts if anything I'd try and manipulate parliaments to reinstate the death penalty for the specific crimes involved.
I just want to be able to live without being hassled after I'm done. People won't ask why I killed someone when I've plastered evidence of them committing child rape (or some such crime) all over the internet.

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You have a point. But I can see myself in OL's position as one of the most powerful people on the planet going "Meh, don't care what you think."

Hence why I don't exactly trust myself with the idea.

Ya see that's how to get the local universes, anomalous persons, to kill you in your sleep or some shit.

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Given the extreme numbers of villainous mass murderers that exist in the setting that never get touched, I wouldn't expect much.

And then 0% ring charge, you'd be like a guy with a rifle in the stone age.

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Well, there are ways of going about that. I mean I've read GL comics off and on for years where they never ran out of charge, or times when it was the biggest deal in the world.

Plus you have the two charge methods. The "Gas tank" method that Zoat uses. Or the original "23 hours and 59 minutes of 100% power and then its gone."

But I have to be honest and state that, as a writer, it would not be that big an issue, because I find the cheap drama of it boring.

I can also see myself using the power ring to gain a non-removable set of super powers anyway.

While I like the simple concept of a power ring, I've never like the idea that, one you lose the ring, you lose the power.

By which I mean, where I designing a character to roleplay (for a game lets say) and I'm being honest with myself. It's not the choice I would make.

Ah, in the amazon show he basically does whatever the fuck he wants and kills almost anyone who annoys him, however, he desperately seeks approval from other people which is why he doesn't literally kill everyone who annoys him.

Basically deep down he doesn't want to be hated by every other person on earth.

I don't remember much about the comics it's been too long since I read them.

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I mean...it's Garth Ennis. Forgetting his tripe is probably the best thing for you. Rejoice!

 

[Darko]

And to this day, I'm not even sure how canon yellow rings even work. Back in the day, it seemed like they worked just like Green rings, but yellow colored. I mean, how do you Fear constructs into existence?

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There are apparently two methods to fear and using a yellow ring.

The first is being afraid and the second is trying to intimidate someone.

Most users apparently use the second method.

Well, there are ways of going about that. I mean I've read GL comics off and on for years where they never ran out of charge, or times when it was the biggest deal in the world.

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I remember this Super Friends episode where Green Lantern and a teammate, Samurai I think, were stuck in medieval times and Hal said that they have to wait for his ring to recharge to be sent back, but he didn't use a lantern and the ring is apparently self charging.

I mean...it's Garth Ennis. Forgetting his tripe is probably the best thing for you. Rejoice!

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He did have an interesting run on Hellblazer, but most of his other work is just crap with a whole lot of shock value and not a lot of story substance.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

And to this day, I'm not even sure how canon yellow rings even work. Back in the day, it seemed like they worked just like Green rings, but yellow colored. I mean, how do you Fear constructs into existence?

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There are apparently two methods to fear and using a yellow ring.

The first is being afraid and the second is trying to intimidate someone.

Most users apparently use the second method.

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The first method can also work, especially if your goal is self-preservation. "I am afraid of getting hit by that" for construct shield, and probably "get rid of that threat!" for any construct attack. Or maybe even make a construct of something you are scared of, though I suppose that might make the construct attack you.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

There are apparently two methods to fear and using a yellow ring.

The first is being afraid and the second is trying to intimidate someone.

Most users apparently use the second method.

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I'm not up to date on how all the different colors work, I've always been more of a Marvel guy until they activated plan: Piss Maxx off.

Most of what I recall about yellow rings comes from...I want to say Silver age Sinestro. But I didn't read too many of those as I've never really liked Hal Jordan. Kyle was my Green Lantern.

Though I do find it funny now that the kids who were pissed off that Kyle replaced Hal, are all grown up and running shit, and have spent like the past...decade trumpeting Hal as the greatest GL who has ever lived while marginalizing Kyle...in turn pissing off the kids (My gen) who grew up with Kyle.

The cycle of comic hurt continues.

Anyway, getting off topic. From what it always seemed like to me, Sinestro used his yellow ring just like a green. Willing yellow constructs into existence. But I see what you're getting at.

Still, that makes Yellow users seem like the weakest out of the bunch. I mean yes, while I am aware that only a coward can be brave, having a corps of people terrified enough to be powerful makes me think....well wouldn't they all just flee?

And the second concept makes me think they would be utterly screwed if faced with people who simply aren't afraid. Which would BE the GLC. As it's comprised of people who are either fearless, or just can overcome great fear.

Which, to me, makes it seem less like the Yellow is the Green's achilles heel and greatest foe, and more like it's the other way around.

I remember this Super Friends episode where Green Lantern and a teammate, Samurai I think, were stuck in medieval times and Hal said that they have to wait for his ring to recharge to be sent back, but he didn't use a lantern and the ring is apparently self charging.

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I mean, obviously Superfriends shouldn't be taken as canon. But that would be interesting. I DO like the idea that rings can obtain tiny amounts of charge by absorbing ambient emotion.

I mean, I know why the color yellow and charge limits were added to Hal's comic in the first place. A power ring was shown to have the ability to do fucking anything and everything back then.

Silver age DC really struggled with power levels.

He did have an interesting run on Hellblazer, but most of his other work is just crap with a whole lot of shock value and not a lot of story substance.

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I'm also told that his work on Judge Dredd and The Punisher (Gag) was quite good.

But honestly, I can't stand the guy. Like, okay, you don't like super heroes....so don't write them? The fact that he has to just shit all over the entire concept, and suck out all the fun of the idea, just because he has this stupid, personal point he wants to make.

Like, dude....I'm sorry you grew up in Ireland and ran out of potatoes or whatever.

But it gets so agitating when he's given the reins and suddenly dude with guns embarrasses characters like Wolverine and Spiderman just because. Like, good job Garth, both of those guys would crush Frank utterly. But, you know, Frank has guns and Garth seems to have a real hard on for those.

And again, every "Deconstruction" seems to just revolve around sucking all the fun out and shitty all over the concept. Wow, so amazing.

 

[Darko]

Anyway, getting off topic. From what it always seemed like to me, Sinestro used his yellow ring just like a green. Willing yellow constructs into existence. But I see what you're getting at.

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I think they originally did work like that, before the Emotional Spectrum was introduced anyway, but I'm not a 100% sure.

Still, that makes Yellow users seem like the weakest out of the bunch. I mean yes, while I am aware that only a coward can be brave, having a corps of people terrified enough to be powerful makes me think....well wouldn't they all just flee?

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They were actually chosen for their ability to inspire fear in others and be intimidating, not because they could be intimidated.

And the second concept makes me think they would be utterly screwed if faced with people who simply aren't afraid. Which would BE the GLC. As it's comprised of people who are either fearless, or just can overcome great fear.

Which, to me, makes it seem less like the Yellow is the Green's achilles heel and greatest foe, and more like it's the other way around.

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Green rings were shown as being vulnerable to the color yellow, even when it wasn't connected to a yellow ring, so even if they weren't afraid the weakness of the green light would make it so that their constructs would be vulnerable.

I think this was because Ion was subduing Paralax, but again I'm not completely sure.

But it gets so agitating when he's given the reins and suddenly dude with guns embarrasses characters like Wolverine and Spiderman just because. Like, good job Garth, both of those guys would crush Frank utterly. But, you know, Frank has guns and Garth seems to have a real hard on for those.

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If you think those were bad, he once wrote a character called Hitman who had x ray vision for a power and some fighting kills and firearms skills, and he had him beat Kyle Rayner.

Yeah, a guy with a fairy weak power was able to beat a green lantern.

At least Batman has years worth of martial arts training, access to advanced equipment and enough money that would allow him to get his hands on magic objects to help him defeat a Lantern, but not Hitman, he's just that badass.

And again, every "Deconstruction" seems to just revolve around sucking all the fun out and shitty all over the concept. Wow, so amazing.

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Ennis' deconstructions are just a whole lot of shock value and gore and not a lot of character development.

If you want a series that both deconstructs comic tropes, but also reconstructs them so it isn't all just bleak and dark, then I recommend Astro City.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

I think they originally did work like that, before the Emotional Spectrum was introduced anyway, but I'm not a 100% sure.

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I'm fairly certain they did. I'm pretty sure the OG Yellow ring was nothing more than a Qwardian weapon made to fuck over GL's.

They were actually chosen for their ability to inspire fear in others and be intimidating, not because they could be intimidated.

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Well yes, I got that much. It still seems like they would be screwed if they faced people who didn't fear them and/or couldn't be intimidated.

Also seems like an emotionless force, robot army let's say, would screw them over.

Green rings were shown as being vulnerable to the color yellow, even when it wasn't connected to a yellow ring, so even if they weren't afraid the weakness of the green light would make it so that their constructs would be vulnerable.

I think this was because Ion was subduing Paralax, but again I'm not completely sure.

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As I recall it started out as a necessary impurity in the "lens" of the ring that was required to allow the ring to work (Which works just fine as an explanation to me. But suddenly, we gotta fuck with things). Then was changed to a deliberate weakness installed by the Guardians to keep Lanterns from becoming too powerful or turning on them (This was also the retcon for Alan's Magic ring having a weakness to wood). Then it was stated that it was due to Paralax dwelling in the Central power battery. Then it became a thing that could just be ignored if the Lantern "leveled up" enough to overcome great fear.

And I'm sitting over here going "You know, the necessary impurity reason was just fine. It's totally okay for the Guardians to go, Yeah...we don't know why it's needed. But for whatever reason, after all these millenia, it just is. Fucked if we know."

I mean, given that the rings can do ANYTHING at any given time for no good reason..it works for me. Like, this little ring already breaks reality.

character called Hitman

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I'd comment more. But I cut myself on all that edge and have to go bandage up.

Astro City.

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A quick google leads me to be uninterested. But thanks.

 

[Pinklestia]

Ah the typical "Shit in a country South America thing" American Superhero comics do.

In Australia? Well the Sheeda got defeated by the wildlife.

 

[Coda]

My ring color would... probably be indigo? But not the malware-ridden forced-compassion version. I've got more compassion than I'm actually able to cope with, and it can be... a problem.

Though if I'm being honest with myself, I also recognize that I would probably do well with a red ring. I'm not proud of that fact, but I know that the undercurrent is there and it would be terrifyingly effective if it were to be given a source of power.

But I often swear that OL's random gear is more effective than his actual power ring.

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Synergy bonuses and observation bias.

Synergy: OL's random gear is stuff he couldn't have gotten without the ring, and it tends to excel in specific areas instead of being a generalist tool like a power ring. It also lets him pursue his goals of uplifting the whole world, because even if he could hand out power rings that wouldn't bootstrap a technological revolution.

Observation bias: OL's past indiscretions and power level result in the encounters that are noteworthy enough to discuss being the ones that can't be dealt with by a power ring alone, either because it's too big for one person to handle even with a power ring or because it's magical in nature.

That said, the story has been shifting back to being a lot heavier on the ringslinging side of things, showing off more of OL's orange light skill and less of his technological arsenal.

You have given rings to people that are much, much worse than him.

Kalmin being an example.

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I'm a little surprised no one has brought up the point that OL had a good reason to think that the bad people he's given rings to would channel that power into something aligned with his goals. Kalmin cares more about creating weapons than about wielding them, for example, and Blight is a classic example of well-intentioned extremist that wouldn't need to commit atrocities if given the power and direction to do things better.

Sivana? Not so much. A power ring would simply fuel Sivana's particular strain of madness, and there would be no stopping him from using it to explore all sorts of unthinkable avenues of live-specimen research.

You might wanna nip that in the butt before it becomes an actual problem...

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Usually the expression is "bud," from the idea of cutting a plant before it blooms and spreads its pollen. Nipping someone in the butt usually makes them more of a problem.

 

[Darko]

I'm a little surprised no one has brought up the point that OL had a good reason to think that the bad people he's given rings to would channel that power into something aligned with his goals. Kalmin cares more about creating weapons than about wielding them, for example, and Blight is a classic example of well-intentioned extremist that wouldn't need to commit atrocities if given the power and direction to do things better.

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Kalmin also basically worshiped an entity that wants to destroy the multiverse, and he has committed genocide, potentially more than once, so OL gave a ring to a guy that may want to destroy the multiverse one day and has committed horrible actions against innocents.

I also have no idea how you would consider Blight to be well intentioned, when most of the time she's trying to kill innocent people, destroy the fucking planet and once tried to sell weapons to Hitler.

 

[DrThoth]

Is Paragon (the SHADE agent) fighting the Sheeda? (I'm assuming he's still around in this timeline, unless I forgot a WoZ about him). He was able to emulate a New God so turning into the equivalent of a Highborn could potentially give him greater capabilities with captured Sheeda technology. Maybe even more if he gets into proximity of Gloriana herself, though she may physically be just another Sheeda, I'm not sure.

 

[Darko]

Is Paragon (the SHADE agent) fighting the Sheeda? (I'm assuming he's still around in this timeline, unless I forgot a WoZ about him). He was able to emulate a New God so turning into the equivalent of a Highborn could potentially give him greater capabilities with captured Sheeda technology. Maybe even more if he gets into proximity of Gloriana herself, though she may physically be just another Sheeda, I'm not sure.

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Gloriana may have a few extra perks, seeing as she's the ruler of her people, so she would have access to some advanced magic and tech to get some upgrades.

Even if he did emulate a Highborn, he would still be outnumbered by them.

 

[DrThoth]

Gloriana may have a few extra perks, seeing as she's the ruler of her people, so she would have access to some advanced magic and tech to get some upgrades.

Even if he did emulate a Highborn, he would still be outnumbered by them.

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He does get stronger the more people are near him, though, so outnumbering isn't automatically a bad thing for him.

Edit: A few more tangentially related questions; is Vril Dox considering Georgia Sivana as a candidate for the OLC?

Is he planning to do anything about the Computer Tyrants on Colu? When will we see Colu and/or the original Brainiac?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Is Paragon (the SHADE agent) fighting the Sheeda? (I'm assuming he's still around in this timeline, unless I forgot a WoZ about him). He was able to emulate a New God so turning into the equivalent of a Highborn could potentially give him greater capabilities with captured Sheeda technology. Maybe even more if he gets into proximity of Gloriana herself, though she may physically be just another Sheeda, I'm not sure.

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Paragon is one of a number of people fighting the Sheeda. Shade are mostly using him overseas, to acquire useful resources while everyone is distracted.

Is he planning to do anything about the Computer Tyrants on Colu? When will we see Colu and/or the original Brainiac?

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Yes, yes, yes.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

And to this day, I'm not even sure how canon yellow rings even work. Back in the day, it seemed like they worked just like Green rings, but yellow colored. I mean, how do you Fear constructs into existence?

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I believe it's the fear you inspire and mastering/overcoming your fears.

 

[Stsword]

I'm fairly certain they did. I'm pretty sure the OG Yellow ring was nothing more than a Qwardian weapon made to fuck over GL's.

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Yes, Guy Gardner wore a yellow lantern after leaving the green lantern corps in his own series, and when Goldface's gang stole it Guy laughed at the idea of Goldface's goons having the willpower to use Sinestro's power ring, so yes the Guy Gardner series treated it as being powered by willpower just like a green ring.

The ring would also cut out on power mysteriously. It turns out that ring didn't have a lantern, it fed parasitically by fighting green lanterns, so Guy got Ted to build him some power armor.

Then Hallalax crushed his ring and his armor.

 

[Coda]

I also have no idea how you would consider Blight to be well intentioned, when most of the time she's trying to kill innocent people, destroy the fucking planet and once tried to sell weapons to Hitler.

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She wanted to improve the human race. She wanted to improve it for her own selfish reasons, of course, and she had no ethics with regards to how she carried out her research, but the whole point of her appearance in this fic is that she could be redirected to channel her ambition in a productive way. That's why OL wasn't foolish to give her a ring.