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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    They may have wanted to recruit people from there in the future.

    Or the one in charge before her chose that and she just kept doing it.
     
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  2. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    He lost that chance when Diana took her prisoner.


    They might have tried, and the much more active Olympians smote their asses.
     
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  3. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

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    Nope, New God. But he is the ruler of Earth by word of Darkseid so Earth is his planet.
     
  4. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Though he was originally human.
     
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  5. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

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    If you wanna to get pedantic, Darkseid was human at some point in the comics.
     
  6. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    He still an alien from another planet, Paul isn't, not including him coming from another universe.
     
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  7. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    If it makes you feel better that's pretty much canon in the universe of Justice League the Nail.

    In the sequel it reveals that Prof Ivo was an archeologist, which left the League a bit curious about how he built a power duplicating robot.

    Turns out he found in one of his digs a bit of Desaad's technology, who reverse engineered the energy absorption powers of an Anti-Monitor expy.
     
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  8. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    Na, we have outside perspective now confirming that he's still mostly human.
     
  9. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

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    Yeah a human ruled future Earth for thousands of years, has a New God Soul and New God powers, is also connected to the Elements of Harmony, sure.
     
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  10. Radix

    Radix Not too sore, are you?

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    Yeah that sounds about right to me. I mean Plastic Man was literally discussed only a few chapters ago.

    Humans are pretty weird. And they are the Fifth World. The fact that he went and tinkered with his soul doesnt make him less human.
     
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  11. Doccer

    Doccer I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Take you back to Themyscira to be rehabilitated of course!
    Surprised Grayven didn't say 'narratively' in his answer.
    Even more surprised Grayven didn't hammer in the point she's spent the last 3000 years slurping down infant slurry just to hammer home how far gone she's been/is.


    Why didn't they unleash those s on Earth 3000 years ago?


    :pFixed it for ya! You forgot to account for how long it's been since she had a certifiable reason to attack him!
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  12. DAT_NOOB

    DAT_NOOB Accused of writing in a far away land

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    I mean surely themyscira has the death penalty for 3000 years of genocide?
     
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  13. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Probably, though given they're from ancient Greece...they may not.
     
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  14. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

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    Look. They have the ELEMENTS OF HARMORNY!
    THey're going to blast her with it because fuck the ANTI-LIFE EQUATION

    And yes. I fully expect Darksied to be defeated by the pastel pony power partiality pact.
     
  15. Radix

    Radix Not too sore, are you?

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    The discussion of Astarte made me realize something about the canon that has been bugging me for a while.

    A major point is that Paul doesnt have knowledge of Young Justice. This trips him up at various points. But he retains his knowledge of Post-Crisis Earth. And this universe is post-crisis earth except where Young Justice S1-2 contradicts it. And S1-2 doesnt actually cover a lot.

    This means Paul has massive knowledge such ss the whole Vertigo line where he can basically list off all of Constantine's adventures. And he basically is never wrong. There arent any other real variances aside from Young Justice.

    And the fact that Paul can exploit this knowledge often takes him away from the YJ elements of the fic. Not to mention feels way too easy. Especially with how much some elements are altered by YJ canon.

    Like compare to Raul. Yes he is in Teen Titans and there is more. But that more doesnt translate nearly as close to Post Crisis based on what we heard about the Reds. Or Blaul in the Animated Crisis on 2 Worlds universe. That world is expanded, but doesnt draw comic Syndicates nearly as much.

    They all seem to retain their general DC knowledge, but lose the knowledge specific to their piece of fiction. Even in other universes such as Buffy or the Boys. Except that the general DC knowledge includes Post-Crisis, and Paragon's earth generally follows post-crisis.
     
  16. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    Mostly accurate, but it's amusingly worse then that.

    Often times when Paul makes mistakes about things, like with how the Tattoo's are actually supposed to work. It ends up working, or being a thing that happened, exactly the mistaken way he thinks it does.

    It's honestly one of the biggest problems Zoat has as a writer.
     
  17. Threadmarks: Veganism (part 9)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    1st September 2012
    14:55 GMT


    I shrug. "Well, you can't beat her up. It's-"

    "Niece?"

    "-quite wrong to do that to a prisoner."

    Diana scowls. "That is not what I am debating."

    Astarte is staring at Diana in disbelief. I wonder w-? Oh, of course. She's from the Old City. Back when Amazons lived their mortal span, aged and died like normal humans. Hippolyta would have died a little under three thousand years ago-. Wouldn't she?

    "Diana, is Hippolyta a demigoddess? I didn't really get a good look at her when I visited Themyscira."

    "Yes. And before you ask, I do not know who my mother's father-"

    The lasso glows. "Ares."

    "-was." Diana's eyes widen slightly, her face falling. "No."

    Huh. "That would explain Astarte's divine voice. I'm a little surprised about Hippolyta, though. She doesn't seem to be the war demigoddess sort."

    "'A warrior must know when to sheathe their sword as well as when to draw it'. She told me that when I was a girl. I never thought it had any deeper meaning."

    "A war demigoddess with self-control." I frown. "You know, she's wasted on Themyscira. Do you think-?"

    "No."

    I give her a reproachful frown. "Not like that. I'm with Luna, and Hippolyta's doing that painfully oblivious thing with Captain Philippus. I'm talking about giving her a greater stage upon which to demonstrate her abilities. But we can discuss that later."

    Diana frowns. "Oblivious..? Yes. Astarte. Can you command this fleet to abandon Grayven?"

    "Easily. They have no love for him. But that will not prevent them from ravaging this region."

    "Could you command them not to?"

    "I could issue the command. They would not obey it. They would kill me, then the commanders would fight amongst themselves for my position. And then the victor would carry on as before."

    I smile brightly. "Works for me."

    Diana scowls at me. "It does not work for me."

    "Diana, I realise that you don't leave Earth all that often, but let me be very clear about this. Out here, all too often, this is what it's like. There is no universal law or accepted moral code. The Green Lantern Corps are a very small-" I hold up my right hand and hold my thumb and forefinger a small distance apart from one another. "-plaster over a ripped open ribcage. People like the Citizenry, like the psions, like the Citadel, like Apokolips, they do what they like and no one tries to stop them. Worlds burn, and if other places hear about it it's met with profound indifference. Space is vast and full of malevolence and it's by sheer chance that the Earth hasn't been snuffed out as the planet below us has."

    I lean forward slightly, maintaining eye contact.

    "The laws you're used to do not exist. The common moral standards you're used to do not exist. The fellowship between peoples you're used to does not exist. What we have here is a community of mass murdering cannibals. If you want to try to persuade them to take a course of action that doesn't result in the preponderance of them being dead? Fine. That will make them your responsibility, yours to stay with for as many years, decades, centuries even, that it takes to get them straightened out. Are you prepared to do that? Are you in for the long haul, or are you going to throw a speech at them and then leave them to it? Because I assure you that will not work."

    "And that is why you want to kill them? Because you believe that is what it will take and don't believe that I am prepared to do what is necessary to ensure that it does not?"

    "I want to kill them because I'd like to establish a baseline of morality and under the circumstances I don't think that exterminating a culture of genocidal cannibals is a particularly unreasonable thing to do. If you disagree with me then put. The. Work. In. Place your mark upon the universe and change it to better suit you. But don't assume that it'll just happen."

    She looks at me, frustration giving way slightly to curiosity.

    "Has that happened to you?"

    "I was it happening to you."

    "If you beat me in the arena, the other-" We both turn to Astarte. "-commanders might accept you. Niece." She doesn't sound like she's signing her own death warrant. Maybe she thinks that she can win? "Once they realise what you're trying to do they'll try to kill you, but they'll do it as one Citizen to another without tearing the fleet apart."

    "Interesting opportunity there, Diana. Kill quite a few people one at a time over a period of years, or let a lot kill each other over a couple of days."

    "I don't believe those are the options. Can I fight to first blood?"

    "No."

    "Submission, then."

    "Perhaps. You would have to be extremely brutal to make a commander submit to you, and if it looked like you were unwilling to kill then the others would see you as weak. I would never submit to you."

    "Never?"

    "Never."

    I nod. "People don't rise to the top in this sort of society by doubting themselves or hesitating to use violence." Hm. "Hey, Astarte, do you have any children?"

    "Yes. One daughter."

    "Let me guess: you raised her the Spartan way and now she's some sort of crazy warrior champion."

    "The Spartans were weak. Theana is the most vicious Citizen soldier we've ever raised. Every cruel impulse embodied in a single woman."

    I grin. "Oh, a true granddaughter for Ares. How about it, Diana? Do you think you can talk her down? How is reforming Ares going?"

    "I refuse to believe that any mortal woman can be that cruel."

    I shake my head. But, hey, at least she's committing. "If you die, I'll include that optimistic quote in your funeral oration. So we're doing this?"

    "I'm doing this. You may do what you like."

    "Frustrating as I find you sometimes, I'm no more likely to abandon you than you are to abandon me. I don't think this will work, but it would be nice if it did."

    She nods.

    "Aunt. How do I announce this challenge?"

    "Unbind me."

    Diana hesitates, but I just smile.

    "It's not like my drones have gone anywhere." I hold out my left hand and begin fabricating a new daiklave. "Let her go. She's going to get the chance to fight you anyway. She's a psycho, not an idiot."

    I deactivate the healing ray and phase the drone out as Diana steps behind her aunt and begins removing the lasso. She steps back promptly as the rope comes loose and Astarte rises to her feet, loosening the muscles in her arms in preparation for a fight.

    Diana stands proud. "Here or in the arena, aunt Astarte."

    "The arena. Captain Astarte to all commanders. I have a challenger."
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
  18. Coda

    Coda Versed in the lewd.

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    You say it's a problem. I say it just makes With This Ring have some verisimilitude with every other reboot that comic books have ever seen -- when you have the freedom to define the world, but you want to revisit a story that's already been written, tinkering with the details to make a similar end result happen while the specific facts are different is par for the course. One might even call it a genre convention, if you were being charitable. You could call it fate, if you want to be Watsonian about it.

    The mark of a good writer isn't that they don't do stuff like this, but that they can tell an interesting story even though you know it's happening.
     
  19. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    The problem there is less the SI's knowledge of DC and more my knowledge of DC. Obviously, I only know what I know. This means that I can't include things I don't know about.
     
  20. hance1986

    hance1986 A pitiful excuse for a man.

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    ' Worlds '
    ' raised '
     
  21. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

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    ‘Worlds’
     
  22. Coda

    Coda Versed in the lewd.

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    sheathe

    That's what she said.

    Worlds (edit: ninja'd)

    we've ever raised
     
  23. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Not necessarily.

    She's also a demigoddess and may have lived for thousands of years without outside assistance.

    Though you were interested in her soul structure.

    Sadly yes.

    I don't think she'd like to help you with your shit.

    No child wants to think of their parents sex life.

    'for him'

    So even if they obey the strongest that only counts so long as they're also a mass murdering, cannibalistic rapist.

    Yeah, letting them continue doing as they're doing isn't a bright idea.

    Don't forget rapists, what with breeding males before killing them.

    He's not wrong.

    He'd be proud that at least one of his children is following in his footsteps of being a lunatic.

    Sadly this belief doesn't hold truth.

    Letting him do what he likes isn't a smart idea.
     
  24. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    Renegade once more letting his Fatherbox programming take over.

    Too bad for him Wonder Woman is going to win...
     
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  25. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

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    Maybe Diana can Out God Voice her? Assert her dominance on a meta-physical level?

    Also, how much does Astarte still worship Olympos? Because Diana can most likely get some gods/esses to vouch for her.
     
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  26. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

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    I would Boom Tube Hippolita and all interested Amazons to watch.

    It will be like home coming.

    Also Ares. Because why not?

    Shame this isn't Paul. he's the one with the Pantheon on speed dial.
     
  27. Doccer

    Doccer I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    The grammar here is off. Specifically that second sentence. It makes this exchange confusing.
    What is being said here?
     
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  28. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    Probably.

    The WW storyline was very much a Rousseau Was Right thing going on, though.

    WW was able to talk Theana down (for which they murdered her) and not only did the Citizenry seemingly obey WW's orders to retire, Diana stated that they seemed happy to do so.

    So in the comics it wasn't so much that the Citizenry loved their genocide snake gruel so much, but that they were afraid of their completely psychotic leader, Astarte, murdering them if they didn't obey orders.

    It was less that the Citizenry were Space Orks and more Astarte is a freaking psycho and the Citizenry were actually happy to see the back of her.

    Now while Zoat seemingly adapted this in a more cynical manner, Astarte might just be projecting her own emotional defiencies onto her subordinates.
     
  29. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    He's commenting on the fact that Diana assumed that he would react in certain ways and he didn't.
     
  30. DrThoth

    DrThoth I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Does Paragon-Diana not know Hippolyta's father is Ares then? Eris told him, but I'm not sure it would come up in conversation between them if he assumed Diana already knew.
    Maybe the final outcome is directing the Citizenry against the Reach or the Dominion or something; get Evil to fight Evil.
     
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