With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

ForeverShogo · Jun 24, 2023

America has a lot of those off the wall contingency plans, too. I think one of the most commonly known examples is there being a plan for if the Girl Scouts ever tried to launch a coup. Obviously, one doesn't think the things being planned for are actually going to be happening any time soon. But planning for that kind of wacky nonsense, on top of the not so wacky stuff, is helpful in cultivating skilled officers.

Bramble Thorn · Jun 24, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
No, that's correct. Mini-Infinity Man.

This coming from the man who refuses to say 'Whiz Wagon'...

Just call him Drax like a normal person. Like he does with everyone else.

Lord Ernest · Jun 24, 2023

Bramble Thorn said:
This coming from the man who refuses to say 'Whiz Wagon'...

Just call him Drax like a normal person. Like he does with everyone else.

Uh... that was Lightray who said that, in the story, I'm pretty sure.

Mr Zoat · Jun 24, 2023

Darko said:
'vise'

Thank you, c-.

m_d said:
According to the Cambridge dictionary, it's vice versa.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/vice-versa

Hm.

'Diabo'
'do is'
'invaded'

Thank you, corrected.

PepeTheFrog said:
I knew the British had a plan for a zombie apocalypse but I didn't know about this. Where did you learn about the planning exercises Mr Zoat?

The Nightmare Stacks by Charles Stross.

Dur'id the Druid · Jun 24, 2023

Venustoise said:
Ngl, not personally invested in Gateverse OL. Still, suppose I can wait to return to Paragon to continue reading.

Not here, I've been wanting to see more of GATE since the first short.

Something just occurred to me, how were the sedans able to go through the gate as soon as it opened? God's gave them some prophecies or something? Not sure if it was ever explained in the show.

Mr Zoat · Jun 24, 2023

Dur'id the Druid said:
Not here, I've been wanting to see more of GATE since the first short.

Something just occurred to me, how were the sedans able to go through the gate as soon as it opened? God's gave them some prophecies or something? Not sure if it was ever explained in the show.

That should probably be 'Saderans'.

The wiki doesn't say, though it does mention that the physical structure of the gate was built by Imperial wizards, making that literally the only time they appear in the story if true. So maybe the gods made the connection but it didn't appear in Ginza until the building work finished?

PDV · Jun 24, 2023

PepeTheFrog said:
I knew the British had a plan for a zombie apocalypse but I didn't know about this. Where did you learn about the planning exercises Mr Zoat?

It's in The Nightmare Stacks (like Zoat says) but I have no idea if the big book of "never happens" contingencies actually exists.

Vaermina · Jun 24, 2023

Dur'id the Druid said:
Not here, I've been wanting to see more of GATE since the first short.

Something just occurred to me, how were the sedans able to go through the gate as soon as it opened? God's gave them some prophecies or something? Not sure if it was ever explained in the show.

Mr Zoat said:
That should probably be 'Saderans'.

The wiki doesn't say, though it does mention that the physical structure of the gate was built by Imperial wizards, making that literally the only time they appear in the story if true. So maybe the gods made the connection but it didn't appear in Ginza until the building work finished?

And this is why you should do more then a brief wiki-walk if you're writing a story in a setting.

The Gate, as it's known in JSDF, is two different things.

The dimensional weak point which sometimes open's randomly and sometimes is prodded open by the gods for brief amounts of time. And the magical structure which was constructed by the Empire to force and hold open the dimensional weak point.

The Empire was able to go through the Gate as soon as it opened because they were the one who flipped the switch and opened it this time.

Mr Zoat · Jun 24, 2023

PDV said:
It's in The Nightmare Stacks (like Zoat says) but I have no idea if the big book of "never happens" contingencies actually exists.

Pages 263-264, in the softback. Apparently RED HORSEMAN is our plan for dealing with the Apocalypse of St. John the Divine, and was updated in 2003 at the request of Tony Blair. RED HARE is for martian tripods.

m_d · Jun 25, 2023

m_d said:
According to the Cambridge dictionary, it's vice versa.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/vice-versa

Mr Zoat said:
vice verse

Obviously up to you, but you appear to have missed the second word when correcting. It's one of those direct from Latin jobs, so it is considered to have a definitive spelling (...sort of. I mean it's English. I think that when I was growing up the people around me were all using "visa versa", which would definitely have meant something different in Latin, but we didn't know any better, and we all knew what each other meant).

Prince Charon · Jun 25, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Pages 263-264, in the softback. Apparently RED HORSEMAN is our plan for dealing with the Apocalypse of St. John the Divine, and was updated in 2003 at the request of Tony Blair. RED HARE is for martian tripods.

I suspect that a lot of countries have plans like that, and I think it could be interesting to use in a story (even if the plan they end up using turns out to have been the wrong one due to starting from bad information.

Mr Zoat · Jun 25, 2023

m_d said:
Obviously up to you, but you appear to have missed the second word when correcting. It's one of those direct from Latin jobs, so it is considered to have a definitive spelling (...sort of. I mean it's English. I think that when I was growing up the people around me were all using "visa versa", which would definitely have meant something different in Latin, but we didn't know any better, and we all knew what each other meant).

Thank you, corrected.

Mr Zoat · Jun 25, 2023

Pyrrhucy

14th February 2013
10:47 GMT -6

"… really odd."

Sunset frowns as she studies… A weird coloured blob of magic energy on the brass… Thingamy in front of her. I'm sure that it's a very efficient way of relaying information from her magic sensor arrays, but it's not exactly… Ignoramus-friendly.

"'Odd' in what way?"

She presses a few keys, and the blob shrinks and gets joined by some other blobs.

"Okay, so this is… I use Atlantis for a lot of calibration stuff, because they use far more magic than anywhere else on Earth."

I nod. "Makes sense."

"So this is all… Passive detection. I don't use it to get through their wards, just to give me a rough idea of how much magic is being manipulated at once."

"Okay?"

"And… When I started using it, it looked like this." Another button press, and the lights dim. "And then this happened." The intensity and size increases. "And if I compress the time since…" The lights gradually get brighter as the magic output of individual cities increases. And more than that, the area between the cities begins to glow more brightly as well. "It starts to do this."

I frown at her. "It might have been helpful to know this earlier."

She winces, nodding. "I didn't think anything of it. It was only dim for a few days; I thought the machine was just calibrating. And I only checked up on Atlantis when I wanted to calibrate it for looking at something else."

"Alright." I nod in acceptance. "Fine. So… Do we know what happened?"

She sighs. "I don't. Ahri'ahn's done… Something to keep Circe and me out. And not just.. this. Anything active just gives total nonsense."

"Because the machine isn't designed to make sense of whatever he's doing, or because he's disrupting your sensors?"

"Honestly, it could be either." She sighs. "Or both. With magicians as old as him, there aren't any good comparisons. His style and all the skills he's accumulated are going to be so unique that it doesn't make sense to try and assess him in terms of someone else."

"So no idea how he raised Atlantis?"

"I can tell you how he didn't do it. It wasn't water manipulation, because using that much magic would disrupt water magic worldwide and that hasn't happened. He hasn't manipulated magma in the Earth's mantle, because that would disrupt earth magic everywhere too. He isn't holding it up through levitation because it isn't a continuous unit and he still has to sleep sometime."

I frown. "Does he?"

"He's supposed to be flesh and blood. According to Queen Clea, he was really strongly against turning himself into anything that wasn't a flesh and blood Atlantean."

"Okay, couldn't he set the spell to keep going while he slept?"

"Not… Not without it being something I could pick up." She presses a few new buttons as the display changes again. "I think."

"How confident-?"

"I've been sending runic arrays into Atlantis using your drone things, and… Like, ninety seven percent? No one knows what he can do, but it's a lot easier to work out what other Atlantean magicians can do, and it's nothing like this."

"In that-"

"Grayven?"

"-case-. In here, moon of my heart!"

Luna trots in, looking slightly pained. "What manner of calamity has occurred, Our swain?"

"Ahri'ahn's trying to make a nuisance of himself. We're trying to work out how he's floating an entire continent."

"We must admit that We are surprised that you are not merely charging him regardless."

I face-shrug. "Given how powerful he is, it's a bit of a risk. I've put a lot of work into the Earth, and I'd rather not have to rebuild it from scratch because I misjudged his contingency planning."

"Or lose your own-" She winces again, blue light pulsing around her horn. "-life."

"Or that. Are you alright?"

"We assume that yon scintillating lights mean that some great working of magic has occurred."

Sunset nods. "More 'is still going on'. I don't suppose you've felt anything, have you?"

"Aside from the brobdingnagian ache We feel due to some ill-mannered and unskilled dullard twisting the dreaming world to suit their ends. Were this Equestia then We would hunt the miscreant down Ourself."

"Dream…"

Wait. Wait. Sandman. That… Sultan moved his entire kingdom into the dream, and made everyone paupers. Or rather, he talked Dream… Morpheus, into doing it for him. An early sign that Morpheus was a callous arsehole. But could that process be… Reversed?

"Luna, you told me that things in the dream world on Wilson could not break out."

"That is… Largely true. If the dreamer were in possession of sufficiently powerful magics, then the mental disquiet may cause some manifestation… But that is all that it is."

Hm.

I raise my hands to cover my mouth, and just for a moment find their size… Odd. Disconcerting.

"That's not how it works here."

"It is not?"

"No." I lower my hands. "Here, dreaming connects to a realm of shifting ideal forms and memetic loci of meaning. Things can go there, and things can leave. It's not… Easy, and there are difficulties, but…"

Sunset's already pulling levers. "You think that Ahri'ahn pulled something out of the Dream?"

"Can you check-?"

"Yeah, yeah, working on it."

I smile and pat her on the head. "Good lieutenant."

"Pretty sure I'm a.. captain."

"Let's not go crazy. Can you actually prove that's what he did?"

"Uh, yes, actually. Zatanna's dad's been really helpful with letting me borrow things from the Tower of Fate."

I frown. I didn't realise he still had access. I mean, good, but…

The image of Atlantis's thaumic systems vanishes, and is replaced by-

"Celestia."

-a stalagmite and a stalactite touching.

"H-?" Luna looks around, and then appears to realise that Sunset was just making an oath. "Ah. We understand that this is alarming?"

"He's making reality less real. No wonder King Orin and Queen Clea stopped responding. They probably think that they're some sort of ideal type monarch right now!"

I nod. "And how do we break that spell?"

"As far as I know?" Sunset shales her head. "We don't."

Ngamer11 · Jun 25, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"No." I lower my hands. "Here, dreaming connects to a realm of shifting ideal forms and memetic loci of meaning. Things can go their, and things can leave. It's not… Easy, and there are difficulties, but…"

That should say 'there'.

Is the Renegade going to have to bargain with Dream to get some assistance against Ahri'ahn?

Darko · Jun 25, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
shrinks and get joined by some other blobs.

"gets"

Mr Zoat said:
still has to sleep sometime."

I frown. "Does he?"

"He's supposed to be flesh and blood. According to Queen Clea, he was really strongly against turning himself into anything that wasn't a flesh and blood Atlantean."

I don't know.

In the comics he was everything from a Lord of Order to a demigod.

Yeah, he's a racist prick, but if he thought that changing himself to help Atlantis would be a worthy sacrifice then he may do it.

Mr Zoat said:
Wait. Wait. Sandman. That… Sultan moved his entire kingdom into the dream, and made everyone paupers. Or rather, he talked Dream… Morpheus, into doing it for him. An early sign that Morpheus was a callous arsehole

I think the earliest sign that he was a callous asshole was when he banished an innocent woman to Hell for not fucking him.

Mr Zoat said:
Wait. Wait. Sandman. That… Sultan moved his entire kingdom into the dream, and made everyone paupers

Technically he just made the kingdom mundane. The poverty came after.

Mr Zoat said:
Sunset's already pulling leavers. "You think that Ahri'ahn pulled something out of the Dream

Maybe he used the dream people had of Atlantis being on the surface to fuel the spell.

Melmoth told renegade that he found a way to pull civilizations out of the Dreaming and into reality, so maybe Ahri'ahn figured out a way to pull out an old iteration of Atlantis.

Heck, that comment about him needing to sleep could take a whole new meaning if he's maintaining the whole thing by sleeping and dreaming.

NightmareWarden · Jun 25, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
King Orin and Queen Clea stopped responding. They probably think that they're some sort of ideal type monarch right now!

I'm of two minds about this. Convincing anyon-… Anyone- except for Peter Parker- with the ego of a superhero that they're hot stuff isn't a great, amazing magical effect. On the other hand, actually turning Arthur/Orin into legendarily competent monarch?

Truly impressive.

Venustoise · Jun 25, 2023

Why wouldn't Renegade Zatara have access to the Tower of Fate? As far as I can recall, Grayven never destroyed Construct Lantern Nabu-Oh, is this one of those off-screen things?

Ngamer11 · Jun 25, 2023

Venustoise said:
Why wouldn't Renegade Zatara have access to the Tower of Fate? As far as I can recall, Grayven never destroyed Construct Lantern Nabu-Oh, is this one of those off-screen things?

I believe it was mentioned that Nabu was put out of his misery. I just can't remember where that was said.

Mr Zoat · Jun 25, 2023

Ngamer11 said:
That should say 'there'.

Thank you, corrected.

Is the Renegade going to have to bargain with Dream to get some assistance against Ahri'ahn?

Not at the moment. Don't summon up what you can't put down. At most he'd ask if he was involved.

Darko said:
"gets"

Thank you, corrected.

Darko · Jun 25, 2023

Ngamer11 said:
I believe it was mentioned that Nabu was put out of his misery. I just can't remember where that was said.

Yeah, renegade killed him.

Chojin Patriarch · Jun 25, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Pyrrhucy

14th February 2013
11:47 GMT -5

"… really odd."

Sunset frowns as she studies… A weird coloured blob of magic energy on the brass… Thingamy in front of her. I'm sure that it's a very efficient way of relaying information from her magic sensor arrays, but it's not exactly… Ignoramus-friendly.

Sadly, I doubt she's felt any need to make the system more user-friendly, since she's the only one to use it, and she understands what she's seeing. Though honestly, the time cost in creating more readable labelling might balance out the time takes explaining it to the layman.

"'Odd' in what way?"

She presses a few keys, and the blob shrinks and get joined by some other blobs.

Yes. Very enlightening... Care to explain what it means?

"Okay, so this is… I use Atlantis for a lot of calibration stuff, because they use far more magic than anywhere else on Earth."

I nod. "Makes sense."

So she rates other things by a scale of milli-Atlantises, then.

Fairly sensible.

"So this is all… Passive detection. I don't use it to get through their wards, just to give me a rough idea of how much magic is being manipulated at once."

"Okay?"

Which is handy, since Ahri'ahn probably has some killer anti-scrying defenses in place now.

"And… When I started using it, it looked like this." Another button press, and the lights dim. "And then this happened." The intensity and size increases. "And if I compress the time since…" The lights gradually get brighter as the magic output of individual cities increases. And more than that, the area between the cities begins to glow more brightly as well. "It starts to do this."

I frown at her. "It might have been helpful to know this earlier."

...Bet it looks amazing with a little chemical enhancement. Better than a black-light poster.

She winces, nodding. "I didn't think anything of it. It was only dim for a few days; I thought the machine was just calibrating. And I only checked up on Atlantis when I wanted to calibrate it for looking at something else."

"Alright." I nod in acceptance. "Fine. So… Do we know what happened?"

So she only got this little bit by luck. Great.

She sighs. "I don't. Ahri'ahn's done… Something to keep Circe and me out. And not just.. this. Anything active just gives total nonsense."

"Because the machine isn't designed to make sense of whatever he's doing, or because he's disrupting your sensors?"

At least you haven't had your eyes burnt out by some arcane defence or something... Ahri'ahn strikes me as old-school that way.

"Honestly, it could be either." She sighs. "Or both. With magicians as old as him, there aren't any good comparisons. His style and all the skills he's accumulated are going to be so unique that it doesn't make sense to try and assess him in terms of someone else."

"So no idea how he raised Atlantis?"

And an old wizard tends to be very powerful and very smart, on top of knowing all the spells. You don't get to be an old wizard otherwise...

"I can tell you how he didn't do it. It wasn't water manipulation, because using that much magic would disrupt water magic worldwide and that hasn't happened. He hasn't manipulated magma in the Earth's mantle, because that would disrupt earth magic everywhere too. He isn't holding it up through levitation because it isn't a continuous unit and he still has to sleep sometime."

I frown. "Does he?"

...I'm reminded of the Obsidian Age storyline where past Atlantis got raised above the waves by virtue of powerful magic, but the population of modern Atlantis got sucked back in time and enslaved to build giant pillars to hold it up... That was a weird storyline.

"He's supposed to be flesh and blood. According to Queen Clea, he was really strongly against turning himself into anything that wasn't a flesh and blood Atlantean."

"Okay, couldn't he set the spell to keep going while he slept?"

Maybe he bound it to something corporeal. Or someone.

"Not… Not without it being something I could pick up." She presses a few new buttons as the display changes again. "I think."

"How confident-?"

Just goes to show that she isn't perfect, even as the Alicorn of Ascension.

"I've been sending runic arrays into Atlantis using your drone things, and… Like, ninety seven percent? No one knows what he can do, but it's a lot easier to work out what other Atlantean magicians can do, and it's nothing like this."

"In that-"

Which suggests that either they abandoned or lost all his knowledge of magic and had to rebuild from the basics... Or he took it from them.

"Grayven?"

"-case-. In here, moon of my heart!"

Ah, a third pair of eyes on the problem might reveal something they missed.

Luna trots in, looking slightly pained. "What manner of calamity has occurred, Our swain?"

"Ahri'ahn's trying to make a nuisance of himself. We're trying to work out how he's floating an entire continent."

I'd be worried about anyone who was within the region elevated. Like any freighters, cruise ships, military vessels or island populations.

"We must admit that We are surprised that you are not merely charging him regardless."

I face-shrug. "Given how powerful he is, it's a bit of a risk. I've put a lot of work into the Earth, and I'd rather not have to rebuild it from scratch because I misjudged his contingency planning."

I like his confidence that he could rebuild it.

"Or lose your own-" She wince again, blue light pulsing around her horn. "-life."

"Or that. Are you alright?"

Hmm... Betting something about Ahri'ahn's spellwork is grinding against her exotic senses.

"We assume that yon scintillating lights mean that some great working of magic has occurred."

Sunset nods. "More 'is still going on'. I don't suppose you've felt anything, have you?"

I mean, she's not attuned to the native thaumosphere quite as much as you are, Sunset...

"Aside from the brobdingnagian ache We feel due to some ill-mannered and unskilled dullard twisting the dreaming world to suit their ends. Were this Equestia then We would hunt the miscreant down Ourself."

"Dream…"

Ah, the ten-dollar words. 'Brobdingnagian' means 'gigantic or similarly large', by the by. No wonder she's feeling a little grumpy.

Wait. Wait. Sandman. That… Sultan moved his entire kingdom into the dream, and made everyone paupers. Or rather, he talked Dream… Morpheus, into doing it for him. An early sign that Morpheus was a callous arsehole. But could that process be… Reversed?

"Luna, you told me that things in the dream world on Wilson could not break out."

Not quite an accurate remembering of the 'Ramadan' story, but the Renegade's metaknowledge is a bit spottier.

"That is… Largely true. If the dreamer were in possession of sufficiently powerful magics, then the mental disquiet may cause some manifestation… But that is all that it is."

Hm.

Well, good to know Wilson is a little magically safer than Earth, because...

I raise my hands to cover my mouth, and just for a moment find their size… Odd. Disconcerting.

"That's not how it works here."

... Huh, that's a little worrying. Hopefully not a symptom of something concerning involving his patchwork of a psyche.

"It is not?"

"No." I lower my hands. "Here, dreaming connects to a realm of shifting ideal forms and memetic loci of meaning. Things can go there, and things can leave. It's not… Easy, and there are difficulties, but…"

I think I see where this is going...

Sunset's already pulling leavers. "You think that Ahri'ahn pulled something out of the Dream?"

"Can you check-?"

...Ahri'Ahn's overwritten modern Atlantis with a dream of Atlantis as he thinks it should be.

"Yeah, yeah, working on it."

I smile and pat her on the head. "Good lieutenant."

Aw, headpats form the boss.

"Pretty sure I'm a.. captain."

"Let's not go crazy. Can you actually prove that's what he did?"

Maybe if it included a promotion to Captain...

"Uh, yes, actually. Zatanna's dad's been really helpful with letting me borrow things from the Tower of Fate."

I frown. I didn't realise he still had access. I mean, good, but…

To be honest, how much attention have you been paying to the League beyond Mr Swift's reports?

The image of Atlantis's thaumic systems vanishes, and is replaced by-

"Celestia."

-a stalagmite and a stalactite touching.

Concerning. I assume. That doesn't seem all that stable, I take it.

"H?" Luna looks around, and then appears to realise that Sunset was just making an oath. "Ah. We understand that this is alarming?"

"He's making reality less real. No wonder King Orin and Queen Clea stopped responding. They probably think that they're some sort of ideal type monarch right now!"

Heh. Joy of using epithets that are the names of actual people who you know.

I nod. "And how do we break that spell?"

"As far as I know?" Sunset shales her head. "We don't."

So, time to try and get in touch with a higher power?

Interesting. I have to wonder just how Ahri'ahn's managing that, and where he's getting the mystical power needed. Because I doubt this version has the kind of near-divine power some variants do. Meanwhile, it looks like we're going to be getting a Paragon episode. Thoughts on the title? I assume Piracy will be involved, going by the pun, and some kind of Pyrrhic victory...

Bud-E · Jun 25, 2023

NightmareWarden said:
I'm of two minds about this. Convincing anyon-… Anyone- except for Peter Parker- with the ego of a superhero that they're hot stuff isn't a great, amazing magical effect. On the other hand, actually turning Arthur/Orin into legendarily competent monarch?

Truly impressive.

Is that what's happening I interpreted it as Ahri'ahn just made Aurthur think he was an ideal monarch and pulled Atlantis from the Dreaming.

Diraniola · Jun 25, 2023

If the problem is making reality less real, a New God with their extra real selves should be the ideal counter.

Duke Long · Jun 25, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Pyrrhucy

A portmanteau of 'Pyrrhus' and 'piracy'?
If not, then I don't know what it's meant to be.

Mr Zoat said:
He isn't holding it up through levitation because it isn't a continuous unit and he still has to sleep sometime."

'sometimes'?

Mr Zoat said:
"H?" Luna looks around, and then appears to realise that Sunset was just making an oath.

'H-'?

Darko · Jun 25, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
Interesting. I have to wonder just how Ahri'ahn's managing that, and where he's getting the mystical power needed. Because I doubt this version has the kind of near-divine power some variants do. Meanwhile, it looks like we're going to be getting a Paragon episode. Thoughts on the title? I assume Piracy will be involved, going by the pun, and some kind of Pyrrhic victory

Well he has been looking for rings, so I assume that he's going to try and get more but the cost will be great.

moralrelativity · Jun 25, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
She wince again

wince -> winces

Coltsguy · Jun 25, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"H?" Luna looks around,

I'd bet on that meaning to say 'Hm?'.

Mr Zoat · Jun 25, 2023

Duke Long said:
A portmanteau of 'Pyrrhus' and 'piracy'?
If not, then I don't know what it's meant to be.

Yes.

'sometimes'?

No, it's a neologism derived from 'at some time'.

'H-'?

moralrelativity said:
wince -> winces

Thank you, corrected.

CTrees · Jun 25, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ah, the ten-dollar words. 'Brobdingnagian' means 'gigantic or similarly large', by the by. No wonder she's feeling a little grumpy.

FYI, brobdingnagian is only worth $1.17.

Pinklestia · Jun 25, 2023

Bud-E said:
Is that what's happening I interpreted it as Ahri'ahn just made Aurthur think he was an ideal monarch and pulled Atlantis from the Dreaming.

Well, no Dream lasts forever.

Also Grayven will probably need Wonder Woman, her power of TRUTH is gonna be Super Effective at making people realizing they are dreaming.

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