With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Batman is effectively a well-trained human with top level equipment if he focused his resources he could have multiple batmen on the payroll for Wayne industries as a sort of private police force, or get a contract for the government for it to be a public police force spreading and making his tech publically available improving earth's chances in any world-ending apocalypse.

Sure one batman has saved the world, but what if there was 10, 20, 100, 1000 or more all running around the earth (or at least the US) saving people and solving crimes.

 

As a refresher . . . Owlman's dumbass plan was basically just him being stupidly nihilistic. He found out the multiverse existed and decided life was pointless because he thinks his choices can't matter if every choice he could ever make has happened in some other universe. So he wants to make the only choice he thinks could ever mean anything, blowing up the entire multiverse. Even though the very act of trying would just create new universes and thus render his plan self-defeating.

In other words, Owlman was pissed off because he didn't feel special anymore.

 

Or, better, he could retire as Batman now, leaving the rest of the Bat family to do vigilante stuff while he does CEO stuff and comes out of retirement every once in a while.

Actually, reminds me of a fic with a semi-reformed Luthor cured of his paranoia when he finds out that he and other possibly influential people including Bruce Wayne have been influenced from a young age into paranoia by Scarecrow’s fear toxin, and he figures out (wrongly) that Bruce Wayne funds and controls the Bat family and the Justice League... by funding and providing intel, training and targets first to someone (he guesses initially either Joker or Harvey Dent), and then when that went bad to Matches Malone (Bruce Wayne’s criminal alter-ego) to be the actual Batman (since he shows up at a lot of places Batman does, and is never arrested), then adopting Dick Grayson to be Robin, etc..

Edit: I believe the fic in question was called inviolate

 

Talking about power......

There was a study done in the US, looking at politicans.

They proved that political power was more addictive, physicly, than cocane. Giving orders, expanding your power base, having people do what you want? Addictive.

There are a number of troops who have been in lots of combat, who find that living outside of battle is something they are no longer ajusted to.

Then again, there are quite a few criminals who ajust to prison, too. Who get out, then commit a crime to go back to where they understand.


Being a major Super would have aspects of all of the above.

 

It was indeed. First half of the story is great, second half is kinda lacklustre - good enough to be worth finishing, but not really worth reading on its own merits - so overall it gets a solid "eh, s'pose it's worth the time" from me.

 

I'm pretty sure that will result in at least one of them going crazy, becoming a supervillain, and successfully killing many of the other batmen before being defeated.

That is crazy. I only read the first few chapters of that fic before I stopped. I might try it again thanks to this comment.

 

Something he actually did in Batman/Superman Generations.

 

Wayne Enterprises has the kind of resources that would make the richest man in the real world look like a pauper. I don't know if his actual net worth has ever been mentioned, but I have seen an analysis that if he had a mere $100 billion he could afford to operate as Batman for all of 2 years before he went bankrupt.

That's the kind of resources it would take to end world hunger forever. Consider that for a minute. If Bruce Wayne put his mind and the entire might of his company to the task he could ensure that no child ever starved to death again within five or ten years. He's got scientists working for him who, if put on such a project, could most likely work out a way to turn the Sahara green again and suck greenhouse gasses out of the atmosphere. At the very least they could crack fusion, which...well, go read some essays on just how big fusion will be once we crack it. With the kind of wealth and skilled labor at his disposal the possibilities are limitless.

 

Problem is the people who develop that firmwear update are the ones you wanted to make the update for in the first place.

 

You can't make a Batman with training and top level equipment. Batman fights hordes of those guys all the time and mows through them like it's nothing.

The Tom King run on Batman has been getting into this a little- What makes Batman unique is his Vow. He can't stop being Batman because of his desire to be Batman, but without his desire and commitment to being Batman he couldn't be Batman. In "WtR" terms you might saw he's naturally channeling some combination of green and orange and yellow light. Not in a big showy way through super-alien technology that produces colored light shows, but in the sense that if "Avarice" and "Willpower" and "Fear" are indeed fundamental forces of the universe then a super-intense vow that brings them all together could very well affect reality itself. Hell, toss in Indigo and Red... there's no color of the emotional spectrum that isn't tangled up in Batman's Vow, is there? It's why Batman can walk into a room filled with League of Assassins soldiers who have trained all their lives and they're nothing but chum. Because they don't have his Vow to empower them. They only have ordinary human commitment.

 

I read a book years ago where a woman managed to create what she called 'the human genetic patch'. By using a cold virus to spread it she caused all affected humans to receive intrapsychic rewards for cooperation rather than competition. It stopped most violence but also reduced motivation.

And then people developed immunity.

 

I've seen a number of references say that Olympia is supposed to be Donna Troy.

 

Just because they're not nice people doesn't mean every spell is powered by kicked puppies and the souls of the damned. Useful things are always useful, regardless of alignment.

 

I legitimately didn't know that the Millennium Falcon was in the movie.

It was on the poster, but it never occurred to me that that was specifically the Millennium Falcon, rather than that ships in Star Wars were supposed to look like that anyway.

 

The irony of a sociopath mind controlling a bunch of other people to get along better is almost palpable.

 

That it is, that it is. Though, well. Have you seen the state of the world today? You’d need mass mind control to get true peace on Earth.

We are a rather violent bunch of monkeys.

 

To be fair the numbers show that the world is a good deal more peaceful and safer than it has been at any other point in human history. It's just that we hear about the rare atrocities much faster and therefore much more often than we used to even though they're actually happening a lot less.

 

Yes, but I would not call that letting them get away because it's better for everyone.

Yes, but again, they don't just let the person get away with the crime. Pursuit will resume in some form or fashion. They will continue to attempt to apprehend the suspects as opposed to just letting the crime slide.

I don't know either, I do know that a lot of stupid people on youtube will state such justifications for why the Mafia in America was a "good" thing. I find such logic to be pants on head moronic (which is the nicest thing I can say without possible mod intervention.). If only because of the rampant corruption of police forces and the systematic fucking over of an innocent populace. "Oh? You witnessed a crime? Well thanks for coming forward....now please excuse me while I report this to the local Capo that slides me that sweet, sweet bribe money. You, of course, will be found dead in a car trunk, if you are found at all."

I know it's be used as an excuse for the continued existence of the Kingpin in Marvel. Which still doesn't wash. Once, when he was in exile, there was an open gang war, bloodier than any third world conflict. So the US government literally smuggles Fisk back and lets him take control over the "underworld" once more.

Bullshit, for a few reasons.

1. If there was such open warfare in the god damn streets, the Military would be sent in to crush that shit hard.

2. Can't make any money from crime when you're in an open war, with hundreds dying every day, and now the military is getting involved to literally kill you. Why would any career criminal actually continue?

3. This was in NEW YORK CITY. You know, Marvel SUPER HERO CAPITAL OF THE WORLD.

I'm supposed to believe that a city that holds The Avengers (Which includes at least TWO actual GODS in Thor and Hercules), The X-men (Nearby), The Fantastic Four, Dr. Strange (Sorcerer fucking SUPREME) and a dozens of higher than you might think Meta-humans like Spider-man. That this could EVER, EVER!, continue for more than a few days without a MASSIVE smackdown occuring?

 

Owlman was suicidal, only his own Earth could give him the death he wanted, he just decided to take everything and everyone with him to the grave.

He was a death seeker just like Batman used to seek revenge, Batman moved on from revenge, Owlman moved on to eliminate the multiverse.

 

Actually, if my memory serves, it was less supertech vigilantes and more building hospitals and schools, transporting food and medicine to the needy, etc, etc.

Anyway, I'm reminded of something revealed in the DC 1 Million- Batman won.

By the time Batman was done, Gotham was a freaking utopia.

But just as utopia means no place, Gotham doesn't exist anymore, lost to the sands of time.

 

While altering the minds of billions of people is not exactly a great thing to do, that really doesn't sound like a sociopath.

Sociopath isn't a term used by medical officials nowadays, but its generally agreed that a sociopath is someone who lacks empathy (the ability to understand someone else's subjective experience), leading to short-term selfish and manipulative behavior. They also tend to be reckless, aggressive, have poor long-term planning, and more.

Someone who spends a lot of time and effort, specifically to make other people stop hurting other people, is probably not a sociopath. If they were, they wouldn't much care if other people were getting hurt, because that's basically the definition of a sociopath.

I don't think that you would necessarily need mass mind control to achieve that. Granted, after looking at the state of the world you might really want to, but that's a huge can of worms. A can of Venomous Death Worms, freshly harvested from the bowls of hell.

Strictly speaking, the minimum you'd need to make a "firmware update" would probably be:

1: A excellent understanding of the human mind, on a genetic, cellular, and psychological level.
2: Effective techniques for altering the mind, possibly by starting on a genetic/cellular level and figuring out how to extrapolate changes to the psychological level. You could probably manage it with a combination of genetic manipulation and very good microsurgery techniques.
3: Lots and lots of patience, computing power, time, colleagues, and well-informed consensual test subjects. This isn't something that will be easy or quick.

Theoretically, once you have everything on that fanciful laundry list, you could change a lot of other nice things at the same time. With the brain itself, you could probably eliminate or reduce a lot of serious diseases, like epilepsy or early-onset Alzheimers. At the same time, you could add in some tweaks for increased intelligence/problem solving; you might not necessarily manage to make everyone Einstein, but you might be able to make people like him one in a thousand instead of one in a billion.

Of course, the wider the scope of your project, the harder it would be and the longer it would take. But if you can add in enough side benefits at the same time as the main tweaks, you could probably get a lot more people on board.


Another factor would be that, if these are actually improvements by any reasonable definition, the people who get them will be, well, better. They'll be happier, more socially adept, more successful at work, less likely to develop serious diseases or mental issues, less likely to commit crimes, etc.

If the one in a million people who undergo the procedure are just distributed throughout society, the differences would probably become apparent fairly quickly as their greater success tends to put them in political offices or at the head of companies. And in all likelyhood, the news would probably focus on them for a while after it started being common, and the inevitable controversy and counter(counter-counter, counter-counter-counter...)-movements, etc would bring in a lot of attention. I doubt it would take long for the stark contrast between Firmware 1.0 and Firmware 2.0 to become well-known.

If they aren't distributed, and for whatever reason this group just sticks together as a community, it would be even more obvious. You'd basically end up with a racially diverse Wakanda, vibranium aside. Lower crime rates, greater prosperity, less disease, etc.

Either way, the benefits would become obvious and well-known fairly quickly, and I'd wager that the whole thing would snowball and become more and more widely adopted very quickly.


The hard part probably isn't getting people to adopt it, the hard part would be figuring out exactly what to change without breaking anything or sacrificing things that are key to 'Humanity'. If you don't do a good job at that part, then no one is going to want to follow in your footsteps, because it isn't better.

 

This is terrible justification from the beginning. Zoat has said several times the Spectre is not part of the continuity of his story multiple times. Using him as a justification for any viewpoint makes any point you are trying to make seem fake and manufactured.

Link to other parts of the story she has appeared in? I'm not remembering her.

The Lights assets already have access to cold technology. The they were responsible for the Ice Fortresses earlier in the story, remember? The plausible deniability is already there.

Still in development as far as I know. Also, imagine if Mass Effect was based on some superheroes adventures in space. The fact that there is a renegade playthrough available does necessarily mean people playing the game will immediately think that is the path the superhero the game is based on chose in real life.

Was Oceanus before or after the mind control thing? Because I think he had Malthusan-grade tech since he assimilated Stewart's ring, not just since he met up with the controllers.

Using lethal tactics against anyone who even vaguely looks kinda sorta like the people they have a have a legitimate beef with regardless of what they personally have done would seem to change the narrative from "glossed over by the (sensibly) outraged" to "both sides are acting like war criminals and terrorists."

His subspace pocket is attached to his ring, which came with him.

No, You were misread the recent installments. There is a whole mafia's worth of backwards speaking magicians in Earth -14, many of which have some limitation on it. That one guy being sent to take over after his uncle dies, his version only works on non living things. Others might have some other limitation, and some have the full unrestricted version. Hence the statement about the family wanting to marry powerful magicians if possible because it increases the likelihood of children being born with the full version.

 

Hmm, fair point. I don't really know enough about the details of Earth -14 to judge the minutia of the police/military response to the Syndicate and other criminal supers.

 

So batman's fanatic insanity puts him on a level above what normal humans can achieve? I'm not sure I quite understand, surely even then one would be able to find at least a few other people with equally strong 'vows' or at least with a genetic disposition to channel the light of the emotional spectrum, or at least someone who's been through similar circumstances.
(Oh wait that's basically Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood and the Robins my bad.)

In a comic world yes, in a rational one...

Wait wasn't Batman incorporated a thing? so just upscale that.

 

I'd disagree. While I'd agree that there will be a lot of "not fun", there's plenty of options both good and evil want for pure utility.

 

I assume the answer is that he uses super tech to make manufacturing cheaper. He also uses said super tech to give his company more profit, so he ends up a bit richer. At the very least Lex Luthor burns more money than him on fighting Superman.

 

Sniahc

 

Wasn't the -14 version of Jay Garrick (original Flash) called Slipstream? Or is this the new official name?

 

You're describing both the Batfamily and Batman Inc.

That sure looks like a no-limits fallacy to me. We already know Bruce donates shedloads to charity and social improvement. If it's not changing the world, maybe it's because even his money can't do everything, in-universe. He already has enough trouble just helping Gotham.