Dungeon Crawler Quest(Original Fantasy)

[Darkened]

Green Elementalist Fusion Chart

What we know so far

(Anshelm's ignored. Maya and Shimah are left out a bit, but Anshelm's fusions are dead obvious for now, and we haven't heard much about where Maya might want to go.)


So, since green jobs show up in the market, would anyone be adverse to putting a routine morning action into searching for Necromancer? It'd probably cost around 600, so we could afford it as we are now and we've seen a few green jobs show up there.


Adding this to my vote.

[!] Check the market for job crystals every morning. Buy Necromancer if you see it and can afford it.


yrsillar: If a skill subsumes a prior one, do we keep both on our sheet or does the larger subsume the smaller.

IE: Say polar adept has "polar magic"(except better named) which lets use use both ice and water elementalist spells. Would we have Polar Magic, Water Magic and Ice Magic, or would we lose Ice Magic and Water Magic and just have Polar Magic?

 

[Arkeus]

So, since green jobs show up in the market, would anyone be adverse to putting a routine morning action into searching for Necromancer? It'd probably cost around 600, so we could afford it as we are now and we've seen a few green jobs show up there.

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Yeah, I would totally go for doing that. Likewise we know Ninja and Paladin sometimes show up, as well as green race mods, and Sera hasn't gotten one yet (Bunny Girl Sera should be a Go already...).

something like:

[X]Routine:
-[X]Check the shops for interesting green jobs and race mods with our group, with a instant-buy for Necromancer at least (and a choose action for the rest).

Could be added to our votes.

 

[Darkened]

Yeah, I would totally go for doing that. Likewise we know Ninja and Paladin sometimes show up, as well as green race mods, and Sera hasn't gotten one yet (Bunny Girl Sera should be a Go already...).

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yrsillar: What happens when a race mod would bring one of your stats to 0?

If you can still equip it...

I strongly suggest our evening action today be buying Sera a lunar rabbit crystal as a "Started Sorta-kinda ????" present.

 

[yrsillar]

They can't go below one. Also you assume Sera has a Str. of 1. She has a 2 thank you very much.

 

[Guile]

Yeah, I would totally go for doing that. Likewise we know Ninja and Paladin sometimes show up, as well as green race mods, and Sera hasn't gotten one yet (Bunny Girl Sera should be a Go already...).

something like:

[X]Routine:
-[X]Check the shops for interesting green jobs and race mods with our group, with a instant-buy for Necromancer at least (and a choose action for the rest).

Could be added to our votes.

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Man, I don't want Necromancer. We're doing fine on pet classes as is, and we don't want to give Maya Graveyard flashbacks or something.

 

[yrsillar]

Just read the backlog. Yeah sometimes you can fuse and get stuff of the same rank. Also you can generally assume that each warrior/hunter class fuses with 2 or 3 elemental ones and at least one cleric one. Paladin is sword/stalwart for example.

As for greater skills you retain them, because you still have to level them up to unlock all the abilities, it's just with the 'greater' skills they can continue providing benefits from the spare skill list.

 

[Darkened]

Man, I don't want Necromancer. We're doing fine on pet classes as is, and we don't want to give Maya Graveyard flashbacks or something.

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We're doing just short of what we need on our pet class and are having particular problems with large waves of enemies, which Necromancer is great for.

We're not trying to main necromancer, but it looks to be something very useful to expand our skill range and as fusion bait. We'd have the money and it seems like a core concept that would justify its presence in the store.



Can we verify either way if a fusion is possible before we grind a job up to C or do we have to bring them two jobs ranked C or higher to check?

 

[yrsillar]

Gotta bring 2 C ranks to check.

 

[Guile]

I would assume that any Ice fusion nets increase debuffs, Maya will eventually be getting more pets, and we have a buffing Warg and our guardian.

 

[Grosstoad]

We're doing just short of what we need on our pet class and are having particular problems with large waves of enemies, which Necromancer is great for.

We're not trying to main necromancer, but it looks to be something very useful to expand our skill range and as fusion bait. We'd have the money and it seems like a core concept that would justify its presence in the store.

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I don't think we will always have a problem with large waves, and we can also cover that through other means, whether better Crowd Control or increased damage overall.

 

[Darkened]

I would assume that any Ice fusion nets increase debuffs, Maya will eventually be getting more pets, and we have a buffing Warg and our guardian.

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We have a buffing warg and our guardian that's been just short of keeping up on higher instances. As difficulty raises these skills will become increasingly outdated. (Maya's pets can be replaced but we'd need to get something there and we haven't found many great tank monsters).

Ergo, we're not really great on our tankyness as a party (particularly we have issues with large waves) and that's something necromancer is really really great at amongst elementalists.


You were literally arguing that we need to build as an off-tank like 5 pages ago. Since then we've gottent he ice guardian which isn't enough and found a great way to actually build a mage as a tank without needing physical stats.

This is what you wanted us to be doing.


Sure we won't always have this problem, because we'll get necromancer. The way you remedy an issue is to get the job that might be readily available NOW that covers your flaws, not to hope something that doesn't really specialize in that will randomly cover that basis despite your lack of clues later.

 

[Arkeus]

I don't think we will always have a problem with large waves, and we can also cover that through other means, whether better Crowd Control or increased damage overall.

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Of course... except that if we can grab Necromancer now there are good odds it has active skills that can take care of our current issue with large mobs, help us solo stuff as well as make harder dungeons much safer.

It means we could do the higher-levelled dungeons quicker and go faster, instead of needing to grind the same low-level ones all the time.

We aren't talking about maining Necromancer here, just that there are good odds of it being there in the shops sometimes given how there is a dungeon it probably has high odds spawning off (graveyard) and that It might have active skills we might want.

Obviously, even if we do get Necromancer I still want to go Ice Job B => Hex Witch C => Fusion Winter Witch, get Skills => Either Ice Job A or Water Job C => Either Water Job C or Ice Job A and fusion Polar Adept => Polar Adept and Hex Witch C => Glacial Lady => Wind C, Dark C, Earth C, Fire C.

Getting Necromancer early just means knowing what a green job entails (E.G, does it give unique active skills, does it give passive skills that are helpful, does it give things with the job ranks?)

 

[Grosstoad]

The gap from ice golem to animating dead is kinda wide though, thematically.

Practically, it might help to control aggro, if we can kill enemy heavy hitter/tank first, then animate its corpse, though it is not quite clear the animated undead will be considered a Pet/Summon and be kept after getting past the Dungeon, or just a spell effect.

If it is a spell effect, they might crumble once we leave the Dungeon, but we might get past the 3 Pets/Summons limit. Also, in consideration, animating mooks is probably a waste of SP, thus might requiring us to pick the heavier targets first.

Other possibility is animating dead is a separate Skill from Ice and Dark, like Ranger's Taming. But considering the limitations of Taming (Beast type, last target in room, half-health, limited number by Rank, etc.) it is unlikely that we will get a good off-tank from the get-go.

Oh, and Yrs did say something about improving the Frost Guardian?

 

[Arkeus]

The gap from ice golem to animating dead is kinda wide though, thematically.

Practically, it might help to control aggro, if we can kill enemy heavy hitter/tank first, then animate its corpse, though it is not quite clear the animated undead will be considered a Pet/Summon and be kept after getting past the Dungeon, or just a spell effect.

If it is a spell effect, they might crumble once we leave the Dungeon, but we might get past the 3 Pets/Summons limit. Also, in consideration, animating mooks is probably a waste of SP, thus might requiring us to pick the heavier targets first.

Other possibility is animating dead is a separate Skill from Ice and Dark, like Ranger's Taming. But considering the limitations of Taming (Beast type, last target in room, half-health, limited number by Rank, etc.) it is unlikely that we will get a good off-tank from the get-go.

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Other possibility is a passive effect that temporarily gives any enemies you kill a zombie status for a few seconds.

Necromancer wasn't talked about for its tanking abilities, it was talked about for its ability to quickly kill a lot of chaff. This means ease of use.

Oh, and Yrs did say something about improving the Frost Guardian?

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Yes- getting Ice Magic to B rank for better abilities/etc, getting Power higher (or better gear for Ice) for better stats.

Otherwise spells are statics.

 

[Grosstoad]

Other possibility is a passive effect that temporarily gives any enemies you kill a zombie status for a few seconds.

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While that is a possibility, that is a quite strong Passive, and feels unlikely. The time limit shortens the duration of crowd control and tanking, and in effect cuts down the usability. Powerful when you can kill a number of mooks in a short time, impractical because the short period will be no different than casting a Frost Spray and getting enemies Slowed.

In comparison is the Twin-Knives Hunter's Passive, which grants bonus resistance versus Dungeon's environmental effects or traps, and other Passives, most of which are pretty situational.

A more likely, as well as more thematic, is the give that zombie status for targets killed with Dark Magic, and the limit will be twice, the number of undead that can be animated as well as time limit, which might be larger than just a couple of ticks.


Also, B-rank Ice Magic~

Another also, getting more Skills impact on the number of Skills that can be equipped and leveled. For instance, Fire is already getting shelved since we actually only planned to use it for the Graveyard elemental issue, but Wind, which previously was planned to be leveled, is now put to shelf for sometime without being used at all.

Ah, and a third also, when we get Fusion Skills, whether granted through Fusion Jobs or by Fusing Skills together, will we only get abilities pertaining from the new Fusion Skill, or will we be getting abilities from the base Skills as we have been leveling them as well?

 

[Arkeus]

While that is a possibility, that is a quite strong Passive, and feels unlikely. The time limit shortens the duration of crowd control and tanking, and in effect cuts down the usability. Powerful when you can kill a number of mooks in a short time, impractical because the short period will be no different than casting a Frost Spray and getting enemies Slowed.

In comparison is the Twin-Knives Hunter's Passive, which grants bonus resistance versus Dungeon's environmental effects or traps, and other Passives, most of which are pretty situational.

A more likely, as well as more thematic, is the give that zombie status for targets killed with Dark Magic, and the limit will be twice, the number of undead that can be animated as well as time limit, which might be larger than just a couple of ticks.

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Less likely, as both Lightning and Dark special skills are for "every spells" and not a specific ones. Might be you are right though, as Ice/Fire are only for Ice/Fire effects.

Another also, getting more Skills impact on the number of Skills that can be equipped and leveled. For instance, Fire is already getting shelved since we actually only planned to use it for the Graveyard elemental issue, but Wind, which previously was planned to be leveled, is now put to shelf for sometime without being used at all.

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Another what? Also, of course Wind is being shelved, it's not useful at all for our current needs.

 

[Guile]

I'm not sure why Wind isn't useful, Ark. Dark is another debuff line of spells, just like Ice's debuffs and Water's crowd control. Having a heavier damage element doesn't seem like a bad idea.

You were literally arguing that we need to build as an off-tank like 5 pages ago. Since then we've gottent he ice guardian which isn't enough and found a great way to actually build a mage as a tank without needing physical stats.

This is what you wanted us to be doing.

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Yeah, but then we got the frost guardian and Maya got a pet - which I assume will continue to power up themselves, because why wouldn't they? - and I'm feeling the crunch for secondary tanking much less.

 

[Grosstoad]

Less likely, as both Lightning and Dark special skills are for "every spells" and not a specific ones. Might be you are right though, as Ice/Fire are only for Ice/Fire effects.

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Oh, we have a line on the effects of the Dark Passive skill? I missed that.
The Lightning actually does have a caveat though: It only works with damaging spells.

Another what?

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Another 'also', I was using a lot of 'also' on that post.

Also, of course Wind is being shelved, it's not useful at all for our current needs.

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Listed Wind spells are:
- Gale Burst: a damaging (I assume medium level of damage) knockback burst spell
- Cloak of Winds: an Agility buff plus ranged dodge spell
The passive non-skill from the Wind Magic itself -Wind Dancer- already improves the user's dodge ability.
Should be noted that Agility improves initiative, accuracy, as well as dodging.

Listed Dark spells are:
- Vampiric Ray: single target damage (I assume, again, medium level of damage, unless noted otherwise) and HP leech spell
- Aura of Dark: an Aura type that gives tiny damage and 1 Str penalty
The passive non-skill from Dark Magic itself -Shadowed Soul- decreases the user's Threat rating.

The usable spell from Dark is the Vampiric Ray one, for the HP leech effect. Wind on the other hand gives us a spell that allows us to keep Alice from being mobbed (similar to Fire's Flame Burst), as well as a personal buff spell.

The reason I agreed to switch to Dark then was that the Gears dropped at Graveyard heavily favor Dark+Ice combo.
And that I thought we might get Frost Sorceress or something (was so disappointed when it was Necro).

 

[Arkeus]

The usable spell from Dark is the Vampiric Ray one, for the HP leech effect. Wind on the other hand gives us a spell that allows us to keep Alice from being mobbed (similar to Fire's Flame Burst), as well as a personal buff spell.

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- Gale Burst: a damaging (I assume medium level of damage) knockback burst spell
-Wave Crash: Medium damage and chance for knock back and stun on all targets in a short line. 8 damage

This is why Gale Burst is not useful right now, while Vampiric ray is better. Given our base Agility is 3 (without race mod), and four currently, having boosts to agility is less important than "having less threat".

Likewise, I much prefer a soft control Aura like Dark's to Wind's.

Don't go 'assuming' medium Damage. Our highest damage skills are medium damage so far. usually it's either small/tiny at low rank.

 

[Grosstoad]

- Gale Burst: a damaging (I assume medium level of damage) knockback burst spell
-Wave Crash: Medium damage and chance for knock back and stun on all targets in a short line. 8 damage

This is why Gale Burst is not useful right now, while Vampiric ray is better. Given our base Agility is 3 (without race mod), and four currently, having boosts to agility is less important than "having less threat".

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Wave Crash is a single line AoE, with a chance to knockback and stun, so not as useful as Gale Burst, which is burst type AoE, that will always trigger knockback, when Alice is flanked.

Also, considering the overflow from current new trend of large waves, those not affected by either Alice's Threat or her Guardian's will eventually target either Sera or Shimah.

(EDIT: Huh, Dark is kind of a skirmisher type... Self-heal, lower Threat...)

Likewise, I much prefer a soft control Aura like Dark's to Wind's.

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Well, I guess that is personal preference, since I prefer having the active effect of improved dodge rating from the Wind, that helps against all attacks, rather than the soft threat of minor damage and Str penalty, if one goes into melee range of the caster.

Don't go 'assuming' medium Damage. Our highest damage skills are medium damage so far. usually it's either small/tiny at low rank.

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Nah, Ice is stated to have very little damage, but in return, the rider effect of Slow will always hit, and has a chance to trigger Freeze.

 

[Arkeus]

Nah, Ice is stated to have very little damage, but in return, the rider effect of Slow will always hit, and has a chance to trigger Freeze.

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No, Slow is usually a 'chance', in fact usually a 'small chance' except for specific spells, and tirgger to freeze is only for specific spells. Likewise, we never had the fluff for Wind Elementalist, but it's also a 'buff' spell-type, so not a Damage-focused one.

Given Gale Burst is a CC-specific spell, It should have Tiny or Low damage (maaaybe small). I'd also take 'Chance to Knockback and Stun on a Lin on all enemies" over 'Knockbacl all enmies', but I guess that's tastes too.

 

[Grosstoad]

No, Slow is usually a 'chance', in fact usually a 'small chance' except for specific spells, and tirgger to freeze is only for specific spells. Likewise, we never had the fluff for Wind Elementalist, but it's also a 'buff' spell-type, so not a Damage-focused one.

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Nah, Chill Aura and Frost Spray are listed to Slow with low damage, as well as a chance to Freeze for Frost Spray, in comparison to Icicle Spear, which is listed to have medium damage, medium chance to Slow, and low chance to Freeze.
It is the Job's feature, certain AoE CC status effect, but low damage.

Given Gale Burst is a CC-specific spell, It should have Tiny or Low damage (maaaybe small). I'd also take 'Chance to Knockback and Stun on a Lin on all enemies" over 'Knockbacl all enmies', but I guess that's tastes too.

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I made the assumption that Gale Burst is medium damage, because its partner starter spell is a non-damaging buff spell. Gale Burst is more of a part defensive, part attack spell, for the more mobile Wind Elementalist, but Alice can definitely use it for the certain knockback melee burst effect.

Also, compare it to Fire's starter spell Flame burst, a melee burst knockback, low damage, medium Burn chance spell, which is the Fire Elementalist's defensive spell.


PS: Actually, I would have expected the Wind Elementalist to have the more traditional long-ranged or medium-ranged Wind Cutter as a starter, instead of the Gale Burst, which requires the Elementalist to be in melee range to cause damage.

 

[yrsillar]

Which is one of the reasons why wind wasn't a starting job, it's better paired with other things.

 

[Darkened]

Our dodge is shit. It will probably continue to be shit even if it gets into the mediocre range.

We're going into an area with few but strong enemies. Winds' all around burst isn't actually that useful in this situation, but dark gives us a healing skill, dramatically improving our sustainability.

Notice how the advice for wind elementalist was largely "Give it to the rogue" because it doesn't key off power significantly. Power is our goodish stat.

It's a pretty bad fit for us. No matter how much we haste or self-buff we're not going to have the raw agility to really use wind well.

Compared with dark's drop in aggro and healing spell and potential obvious MP drain at D-B rank somewhere, I'm really iffy on the benefits of using the magic that keys heavily off the stat we naturally have at 3. We planned on wind because we knew about it and we know Blizzard Sage is a thing.

Now we see clearer upgrade paths and at best wind is worth experimenting with for blizzard sage sometime when we have the freedom to do that.

Of the three blue jobs we know, two use winter witch and one uses necromancer. 0 use any wind component. We can look for one, sure. But it makes sense to start by heading toward what we actually know.

Just like it makes no sense for us go Stalwart over Hexer.

The gap from ice golem to animating dead is kinda wide though, thematically.

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I really really don't want us to feel that our starting job is an eternal thematic mandate. We're a wizard and have tended to play the damager/debuffer/cc expert, not "The ice person" and necromancer is pretty good at the jobs we've done so far. That said, we could easily be the attack person in a party without Sera. Branded are great at getting multiple jobs and hitting purple is probably going to require a lot of experimentation with a lot of different roles.

Half the advantage of being branded is being able to get a lot of different skills very quickly.

 

[Grosstoad]

We only get the a part in the damager role because of a number of boosters that helps to raise that section. But we are still clearly not up there with Maya or Sera. Of course, with Alice's passive to boost all types of magic, we can do the damager role pretty well, if we take the DPS magic Jobs, like Fire or Lightning, but since Sera is already covering those, we tried to improve on the CC and debuff side of the party roles.

Now, Alice's base dodge is shit, perhaps, but with her Passive boost and Wind, it can at least turn to mediocre, and help her to dodge-tank the overflow that gets past Anshelm's aggro. If we decrease her Threat rating, the overflow might overlook her, but then they will start to look at Sera or Shimah.

Wind Elementalist on its own might require having Agility as a tertiary stat, while Alice have Perception as her tertiary. But in this particular case, we are having Wind as an augment to existing abilities, not as a standalone Job.

About Stalwart over Hexer, it makes sense to me because Alice already has a number of Status Effect debuffs from her available Skills, as well as Crowd Control debuffs, while we already have pure Stat debuffs from Shimah, who also has picks up DoT Status Effect debuff from Shaman, not to mention Sera and Maya's DoT Status Effect debuffs.

While they are different types, we have already overlapping coverage on the debuffing role.

What we don't have is party member who gave Buff to allies. Alice, while probably not going to the effects from raising Talisman skill, might still be quite effective with Buff because of her personal Passive Skill, which augments all types of magic.

There might be no currently known leads on those Fusions, but as Yrs stated, Fusion is supposed to be an experimentation system, not follow-the-leader or follow-the-breadcrumbs.

 

[mrttao]

They're saying that since the NPCs live the world first-hand, instead of the voters that control Alice, who only experience it second-hand, they will be more precise in their judgment and will be willing to offer their suggestions or rebuttals to what the voters/Alice plan for, if given the choice to do so in the plan.

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Of course that is what they are saying, I was asking what that has to do with the discussion.
drake and I were talking about "if main character believes X do Y", ark and radeath were replying to it with "but the NPCs are a reliable source". I am saying that this is not a rebuttal because it has nothing to do with the discussion about whether or not we can have a modifier of "do X if main character believes Y". Although it might be an alternative suggestion that was just phrased poorly to seem as if it was meant as a rebuttal

 

[Darkened]

Wind Elementalist on its own might require having Agility as a tertiary stat, while Alice have Perception as her tertiary. But in this particular case, we are having Wind as an augment to existing abilities, not as a standalone Job.

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You're arguing for wind to make us an off-tank, while arguing against necromancer which builds toward being the super-off-tank mage and actually fits our stats and our gear.

I mean, in what way do you see wind there helping MORE than necro would. And if you don't think Wind outdoes the green Necro at Necros stated specialties, then why argue for wind when we can pretty easily get necromancy via just spending some gilder we already have.

About Stalwart over Hexer, it makes sense to me because Alice already has a number of Status Effect debuffs from her available Skills, as well as Crowd Control debuffs, while we already have pure Stat debuffs from Shimah, who also has picks up DoT Status Effect debuff from Shaman, not to mention Sera and Maya's DoT Status Effect debuffs.

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Look at the numbers I did a ways back. By the time we got to actually start equipping our secondary cleric skill, we'd already have a green job unlocked and be training up that active. The timing just doesn't really work and hexer has fusions while stalwart has no known futures.

 

[Grosstoad]

I am arguing that Wind gives some off-tank ability, compared to Dark, and then its Fusion with Ice will be Blizzard Sage, which supposedly grants wide area mobility restriction, a better response to large wave of mooks than taking the supposedly super off-tank path of Necromancer.

I am not arguing Wind's supremacy over Necro, but Wind's good points over Dark against large wave of mooks as a party member, not as a solo.

 

[Arkeus]

I am arguing that Wind gives some off-tank ability, compared to Dark, and then its Fusion with Ice will be Blizzard Sage, which supposedly grants wide area mobility restriction, a better response to large wave of mooks than taking the supposedly super off-tank path of Necromancer.

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What does "compared to Dark" means.

We are not arguing to take the super-off-tank path of Necromancer, we are arguing there is no reason not to grab Necromancer if we see it. Necromancer is not said to be off-tank, it's said to be great at dealing with large numbers of enemies.

We are not even arguing to use the Necromancer Job, while you seem to be arguing to use the Wind Job, and not the Skill.

I am not arguing Wind's supremacy over Necro, but Wind's good points over Dark against large wave of mooks as a party member, not as a solo.

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Wind's magical skill (not talking about the job here) were flat out said not to be Power-dependent. I don't trust levelling a skill that doesn't use our main stat but instead uses our worst stat with charisma over a Skill that is flat out using our main stat.

 

[Cassiemouse]

I wonder if Gravelord would get an entropic barrier skill to make the caster super tough? That would help with off-tanking too.