Pax's Alternate History Snippet repository.

[Faralis]

very funny to read,how soviet belived in powerfull England plot!

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In paper, the UK was the most powerful empire in the world atm. We know they were almost ruined by WWI, but they didn't. And it's just 3 or 4 years since the brits stopped officially supporting the Whites.

Is an over exaggeration, but they had reasons to distrust the brits.

Weimar was already building "tractors" in the SU, so no idea why they included them in the conspiracy.

 

[Imperator Pax]

That's one that we should be seeing more of is socially English conspiracies were a popular fear of the time because of London / the British empire s hitherto dominant capital financial position

Germany and France both also got hit with this to a lesser extent due to cultural stigma / inertia

 

[ATP]

In paper, the UK was the most powerful empire in the world atm. We know they were almost ruined by WWI, but they didn't. And it's just 3 or 4 years since the brits stopped officially supporting the Whites.

Is an over exaggeration, but they had reasons to distrust the brits.

Weimar was already building "tractors" in the SU, so no idea why they included them in the conspiracy.

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Yes.Book i mentioned was made on soviet intelligence papers which stopped to be secret,and soviets really belived that there is british mastermind which control both Germany and Poland as if they were their puppets.
Which is bullshit - but soviets really belived it.

That's one that we should be seeing more of is socially English conspiracies were a popular fear of the time because of London / the British empire s hitherto dominant capital financial position

Germany and France both also got hit with this to a lesser extent due to cultural stigma / inertia

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Agree,althought London City arleady was replaced by NY Wall Street as dominant financial position.
Another thing - soviet agent i mentioned should go to China and Tibet next year.Here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Roerich&ved=2ahUKEwiHiZmomcOIAxXuCRAIHd-0LoQQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Szlb8RjKiKo9tFovh3nmX

Dude really belived that he could create buddhism which could support soviets,which,of course,was bullshit.
But - you could use his expedition as comic relief.

And most of his paintings are good.

 

[Imperator Pax]

"he's an artist, he paints fine, but boy are his ideas queer." - Young Carter probably.

 

[Imperator Pax]

April 1924
The 10th ​Division of the Army had reached strength on schedule for the summer drill... it was just that the drill the previous year had started a little earlier than originally laid out. Right now they were herewith 1st​. The active portions of the 5th​ were currently on the border with Hupeh, and the 7th​ were with Bill at the lake. It was a fairly typical deployment... at least it was on paper. Typical meant most would mean that the reading would be largely taken in stride.

The reality though was what having the10th​ at strength meant. Percy had reminded him that Xian's triangular divisions were roughly equivalent in size to British ones. Admittedly there were slight differences but by and large it was a close enough thing. "We don't have a navy," Or if he had wanted to be an asshole he could have pointed out the lack of outstanding debt to the United States which was something of a repeated topic of discussion in Europe... but the Brits at least seemed good for the money unlike the French.

"You might one day."

"I respect my neighbors borders as long as they respect mine. I respect their property when they respect mine."

"But you do carry a very large stick," Percy returned borrowing from one of Teddy Roosevelt's stump speech arguments, "You have gunboats now, that is a start."

He bit down at the riposte as Percy scored the point, because that was true, and the expedition had been a thing, "Cole has riverine craft that frankly will need something other than the 1PDRs they were built with," The 1PDR had been on cutters and small navy boats when he'd gotten to the Philippines and even though the Army had taken them to war, and Black Jack had had them in Europe too, they were long in the tooth. The issue had been that Cullen had been in the process of looking at other artillery... the 25mm autocannon had still been in development, the 3 inchers of the regular army had been against his preference and the heavier 122mm with its better high explosive was not ready. The latter had currently the least amount of work put into it, but given time and probably ten years then they'd have something that met his standards, "If any of us will have a navy, it will be Powell, and I wish him all the luck for that endeavor." He'd need it, Allen expected, Navies seemed impossibly expensive things... but then ten years ago he would have thought ten divisions would have been too great a burden financially to support... but then the war in Europe had occurred "So the 10th​?"

"Its not so much the tenth, though their timing could hardly be missed," Percy stated, "Its the question of what goes from here," The englishman remarked. "And I will not deny that Minister Schurman," Always Minister not Doctor from the English bluebloods, but he supposed that the South was not that different in the distinction either... "has also questions. You plan to expand."

"And if we do it will be on a similar time frame, but for the moment we expect no new divisions." He paused, and offered the englishman an out, if he needed one, "Is this about Zhang?"

"In part yes, I understand that whatever complaints exist between Mukden Xian are unlikely to come to blows. And," Percy paused, " to be certain Zhang has ties to America, and similar positive sentiments exist with Japan, even with the passing of Prince Yamagata. Zhang purchases a great deal of materiel."

"From Britain."

"Yes, of course, but Germany and Italy as well. He enjoys the benefit of international trade, which are within the letter of the law," He might protested the Jordan embargo as not being the law but there was little point for as Percy had just outlined for all the griping done about enforcement in the interests of business, and politics the letter of the law rather than Jordan's intentions were the important thing... even the letter was flaunted frequently enough. "Zhang's arsenals, his factories they're productive... and its heavy industry. I don't need to point that out to you of course, but it exasperates the divide with the south, where some of my colleagues in the Foreign Service are already drawing comparisons between Northern Italy and Southern Italy." Which had been something that probably had been bound to happen, but also highlighted the change in opinions voiced by the British diplomats. "But it also brings to mind concerns that China is going to break apart, not just north and south but that the north will splinter unless something is done. The Chinese themselves understand this from their own history spawning that idiom about kingdoms dividing."

Japan been worried about that as well. As had the States. China, her myriad of provinces were densely peopled. It had been hard in the early years for the Cadre to grasp what administering even a 'small' Chinese province entailed... and the devastation of China's civil war in their grandfathers' days when the states had similarly been enjoined in conflict.

Allen stood up, and rifled through a series of papers. All intended for public disclosure all documents for which the cadre planners, and the general staff had furnished to each other, and also to the legislature's lower house, "I cannot speak to that," For the truth was domestic sentiment was complicated... efforts to bring the south back into line had bled the north of treasure and men and more to the point had failed. Yunnan was just the most conspicuous, and every year Manchuria seemed further and further distant from Peking... and xian as well regardless for which the salt gable and other taxes were sent to the beiyang government in the capital. It was the public sentiment of the north which grew disaffected with the idea of a parliament of fools. "Tenth division is up. If we plan to establish further divisions, it will follow something along this model," The public records were clear on the procedure at this point.

Percy understood that, "Yes John Allen, I was here for when the process was begun. Zhang has 27 Brigades now." Twenty seven brigades for the three provinces of Manchuria, which came out to about a brigade per million people, if one only counted army, "and then the air force and his small navy." Thus Zhang Tsolin on paper had 9Divisions under his command, and a sizable air force to represent a wealthy industrialized small country the likes of Manchuria, but there were complicating factors... "But that's the example, isn't it? The planned expansion will be more than two brigades, or two divisions even. You'll lay it out so everyone will know its coming, but that transparency for whatever it wins you with the public, is not as reassuring to people outside Xian as you might think."

and yet, while it was sometimes hard to discern the new president's feelings but Hughes generally seemed favorable to the cadre's influence both here, and Powell's work as head of the MAK. Hughes also was favorably disposed to Britain thus it plausible that a cordon around the soviets was practicable. What Harding's death meant... well the Cadre was not expecting a full break from isolationist talk but Coolidge did not seem likely to extend recognition to the bandits in moscow which was a relief.

 

[ATP]

"he's an artist, he paints fine, but boy are his ideas queer." - Young Carter probably.

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Yup.Buddhist-leninism is queer,no matter how you look at it,becouse dude really tried to sell locals in China and Tibet that Lenin is Maitreia which was supposed to come for buddhists !

That aside - you could buy cheaply some small naval gun for your gunboats from A-H or germany,for example

Škoda 7 cm guns - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Skoda 66mm naval gun,should be enough for river warships.
Here,i found list of most naval guns used :

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_naval_guns_by_caliber&ved=2ahUKEwjw8qyRuY-PAxXJgSoKHeEJJcUQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw05rO2pg8DMZphQjLm4OiYw

You should found something there for your boats !

P.S Roerih claimed,that brits tried to sabotage his expedition,here it could be done by your americans!
By the way - maybe you made Shamballa and Agharta real in your story? Himmler belived in second,and even send at least 3 expedition to Tibet to ally with them! but - it would be before 1939,not in 1924.

 

[Unik]

How hard is administering China, let alone a province? Are the provinces that huge and powerful? Btw how is the Cadre administering their zone of control and how is the logistics of the army at the moment?

 

[Imperator Pax]

How hard is administering China, let alone a province? Are the provinces that huge and powerful? Btw how is the Cadre administering their zone of control and how is the logistics of the army at the moment?

Click to shrink...

The simple answer is railways... and yes the biggest issue with Chinese administration is that in this period is that infrastructure both in material and manpower had been neglected for so long that there were provinces that had degenerated to the point where some counties in Sichuan were fielding local armies in the tens of thousands of troops its not that they're powerful per se its that the lack of effective centralized bureaucracy and infrastructure meant that force projection in most provinces never mind the the post Yuan Shikai Beiyang government in Beijing just lacked the ability to stop seasonal warfare which ussually ended up destroying or at least preventing maintenance on dikes and roadways b/c these provincial armies frequently impressed laborers as baggage carriers for their campaigns.

For the Cadre this is why the railways are so important because it largely obviates the traditional importance of baggage carriers as well as goes into administration since the railways started as a way to carry goods, tax revenue and provide postal services and the rail allows a reliable functionally all weather way to move both in between counties in a province, and in between provinces i.e. between Shansi and Shensi or out west through Gansu, or into Tibet to Lhasa There is also the industrial urbanization component which weakens though not all together eliminates the importance of seasonal work which reinforces centralized leadership [and again all of us are used to both the Post War bureaucratic expansion and also a much more rapid flow of information across the bureaucracy, and public spheres]

 

[Imperator Pax]

1924
His attention lifted from the note as the Texan spoke up, "That from Louie?" He questioned, as Allen recognized he should have been looking at other time tables...mostly for new automotive engines larger more powerful V8 and Edsel's V12. There were a lot of talks going on about such things for combat cars as well as pushing the envelope with the tanks... they had taken the first one over the winter to see what Edsel's engine would do with in a british mark radio carrier.. not that the marks were all that useful for them. Griswold thought the results had been promising in the paper he'd put out. "Well?"

Bill was the only one who called him that, Dickie was what everyone else close enough did. It was hard to fathom that it had been eight years since the first letter they'd received by a then midshipman. A lot had changed in those years, at least in China. Britain too, Louis hadn't needed George the Fifth to catch a bullet in the arm to distrust the Bolsheviks. Of course the Russians were still fighting sporadically with blacks, greens, and the whites. Though admittedly the borders with the latter had stabilized. The conflict in the west had taken priority with the Baltics, and Poland, and the Ukraine. There had been some squabbling too with the Turks, but it didn't seemed to have amounted to much.

It wasn't really their business. "It is," He finally responded before putting it aside, "Just the usual, come visit England, and all that. I've half a mind to send you, and Phillips." Griswold was acting like a bloody menace with his tanks especially with him having received a few more of Edsel's V12 Diesels to play with.

"Yan is a bit worried about Zhang actually doing something." when the summer started.

"What are he and Griswold jousting with their tanks now?" He was only half joking. The big man of Manchuria might not have gone to school, but he liked every new industrial means of war, whether it was armored trains, tanks, or airplanes. He'd been on a big shopping trip to the former Hapsburg lands more than once. Japan was happy to use Manchurian troops to shore up their legitimacy in 'protecting' their de facto gains further north from the Bolsheviks. Yan really didn't like the reds, but also didn't trust Zhang so it wasn't like this w as new, "Really whats the problem?"

"That was my response at first too, but he's right, Zhang does have a lot of guys, and as far as Manchuria is concerned that 'arms embargo' ain't worth shit." Bill replied. "All those Skoda guns he's brought over. His new Mauser." The list went on... and Zhang was a tall fella he could easily control the full power Mauser cartridge.

Oh the Japanese Legation had claimed left right and center that they weren't exporting arms into China, but everyone knew they were lying. It would have been one thing if it had just been Zhang... still would have been a hard sale but there were a lot of Arisakas, and even more Muratas floating around in Shandong, never mind parts south. Absolutely none of that was why Yan distrusted the Japanese. Ironic since Yan still pushed a lot of doctrine inline with Japanese... it was the whole reason the carbines had Enfield like bayonets. Thus why they even bothered still doing bayonet drill... well that and the reality of horse charges still being a thing in this part of the world... and that the Red Cavalry seemed to preen pretty for pictures at least.

"Alright, and?" He asked. Asa member of the cadre it wasn't like Yan couldn't have brought this up... which he probably would. No this was probably him feeling out whatever it was. "What does he want?"

"You really need to ask?"

"I want to hear you say it." He replied.

"Statuorily the Reserves, is authorized to a strength of one hundred thousand men. There are five divisions presently organized." Each of which contained three regiments which entailed two thousand infantry privates who could be called upon. It was an all volunteer force, but it was also part time, like the state militia state side even if in practice the reserve divisions were not strictly territorial guards divisions...the regiments were geographically located by garrison.

"We've talked about standing a division up for Kokonur." Allen replied, but the truth was that they just weren't there yet... not a full 'national guard' division That was about the only thing the committee could agree on. There ostensibly plans for next years new five year plan, but right now those were also still in committee. This whole five year plan thing was ... well this one was mostly about trying to get enough infrastructure to set up to make it possible todo anything at all outside of the existing power bases. "The logistics just aren't there yet. The brigades that exist should be able to support Kansu," The division responsible for, "if they need to do something." There was some lingering animosity with the Tibetans down south that was probably going to flare up. Then again it might not but like with Yan's distrust of Zhang, "We're due for a fight anyway." It was a wonder the fighting on the coast, and Zhili hadn't spilled over given Wu had control of Hanyang.

"Its that too," Bill replied, "But he thinks Wu and Zhang are going to go at it again."

Allen bit a curse down, at the reiteration because "Thats the last thing we need." He muttered in lieu of. Wu was trickier than Zhang, when you got right down to it. Neither had messed with free transit going to coastal ports, but it had always been a precarious thing and tenuous agreements during the last war had always felt as if they'd collapse at any minute. It made people nervous. That wasn't exactly conducive to business... and even though they were far from just businessmen now, they had been closer to those roots in 1922."Alright what then, I shall ask again, does he want for christmas?" Never mind it wasn't even July yet... and never mind still that they'd probably start an avalanche within the cadre over which and what should have priority.

Bill shrugged at the quip. "I don't think there is any heading it off." There had after all been war scares a few times now... the lincheng outrage the year before had probably put pressure on both sides to back down especially as shrill nonsense spewed out from Shanghai... but things had been left to simmer. "our best option is to reassure people that things are stable. We don't have to have a division in kokonur just yet, but the Guard is needed to deal with other problems." The texan was meandering ... wandering around all the points that he'd no doubt have to hit for swinging different members of the Cadre and whose votes would be needed.

In the grand scheme of things... well it was complicated being a legislature, controlling the purse strings for an army made their lives complicated in a way they'd never imagined. "We are obliged to pay for the army,"

"No doubt, and truthfully," Bill helped himself to a glass and the decanter, "most of our fella figure the British statute ... the ideas that if the law says we should have X at a certain strength we ought to be right up on it." He poured, took a breath, "Shit, Hodges being dead makes a mess of things... we let him handle Tibet for so long cause of the war," In Europe, "And now that he's gone... now that the war is over... its a mess out there, and-" And there had been the Foreign Secretary running off at the mouth during Lloyd George's tenure... and even though Curzon was out... "We need to be more involved there."

"I know that." Allen replied, but they didn't have anyone... and Lhasa was one thing. It was majority Han merchants, and it was a commercial center but the surrounding countryside was different. "Peking says we're the legal government," That Tibet officially had a Xian style provincial constitution and had county level bureaucrats in the eastern portion of the country, "but I don't know if Curzon ever thought about it like that... or hell maybe he did, but that would just raise a mess of other questions." Bill raised the glass in agreement. The Government in India similarly had distanced itself from the Simla question as well... they hadn't wanted to wade into the question of exactly how recognition of governments in China was supposed to work... and exactly what 'autonomous states' inside of a suzerain were supposed to be doing... that was probably the smart thing given how it might effect British Imperial Foreign Policy... not just for India but on Canada, and South Africa and the Anzac lot.


It was a detail that couldn't be ignored... despite plenty of people doing that. The British Empire was not monolithic... and even whitehall was no longer just two old parties.
--
Notes: the Liberty Tank ran off a wartime v12 outputting 300 horsepower, the Mark VII really doesn't do much for the cadre its big its heavy so the ones in inventory are mostly test beds for radio carrier / command vehicles / recovery vehicles theyre not being used as 'tanks' but they're also being used to test out more powerful engines even though truthfully at this point in time the Liberty V12 is actually still quite competitive but this will eventually lead to Xian's standard V 12 diesel tank engine and eventually heavy truck engine particularly of the post war years.