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Rule 8 Announcement

Discussion in 'Announcements and Rules' started by ultima333, May 22, 2022.

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  1. ultima333

    ultima333 Happy Sunflower Time Administrator

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    An update regarding Rule 8:

    Sexuality and sexual identity (including transgender identity and its related topics) are no longer considered part of Rule 8.

    Please note what this means:
    - If you're being an asshole or insulting other users, that will still fall under Rule 1.
    - If you're discussing recent legislation changes or campaign platforms involving these, that discussion will still be under Rule 8.

    As pretty much the entirety of policies, this "change" is meant to get people to treat other users with respect, and to not stifle discussion, in that order. As such, basically anything of such can be open for discussion, so long as you're not being an asshole (implying subhuman nature, saying they're deluded, or insulting them).

    I quoted "change" because this has been slowly going into practice for a couple months now.


    "In-story"

    The narrator or author or whomever, using whatever pronouns when discussing a character is not an issue.

    It only becomes an issue when it's, for example, a post talking to other users, or a non-story post espousing things such as "all trans are subhuman" or something of the like. Basically, when the author is directly engaging other forum members (whether directly, or by broad categorizations).
    That sort of thing is, and always has been, a Rule 1 violation, cuz you're being an asshole to other users.


    Discussion of Topics

    Same as before, the intent is to treat other people with respect.

    The topics are not forbidden. Surgery, genetics, identity, pronouns, I don't care. All fair game for discussion.

    As before, Rule 1 is still in effect. If you're denigrating other users, saying that those users are delusional, or "wrong" about who they feel they are as a person, that's pretty assholeish behavior.


    Pronouns
    Be polite when informing others of your own preferences. Understand that not everyone has Titles/Signatures visible.


    If someone asks you to use their pronouns, use 'em or something neutral or use names instead of pronouns. Intentionally misgendering is an asshole move. Don't be an asshole.

    Again, this has already been in effect for a while.


    TA's Addendum:

    After a thorough review, it seems that most of the meltdown that happened here was about something that was utterly irrelevant to the actual rule change. All we had intended to do was codify an internal policy change; that the mere discussion of a non-standard gender or sexual identity existing could not be struck down by those that disliked it under Rule 8.

    Therefore, I'm going to make this as simple and straightforward as possible. None of this is new, and none of it should come as a surprise. It has been this way for a long, long time.

    QQ moderation are not the thought-police. You can think whatever you want. You can believe whatever you want.

    But on our website, you cannot express yourself however you want.

    We are incredibly, shockingly, ridiculously lenient on things that fall within the purview of QQ's purpose; namely, to be a place to write, read, discuss and enjoy porn. However, there are things that we will just not tolerate. Any violation of Rule One, in particular. That means no kinkshaming. It means you don't insult other users. And yes, we treat suggesting that someone's identity is actually a form of mental illness as insulting them.

    There it is. Straightforward. Black and white.

    If you cannot deal with this I have a very simple solution for you. Keep your opinions to yourself. There are plenty of other forums out there where you can discuss this! QQ is not going to be one. We want to be a safe and inclusive space for everyone to enjoy their smut.

    That means we don't ding you for writing weird shit in your stories. That means we don't get all up in arms about depictions of things that would otherwise be terrible, awful atrocities because, frankly, at least one person on the site probably gets off on it. It's, for the most part, fine as long as you are able to restrain yourself to fictional works.

    When you leave the realm of fiction, pornographic or otherwise, and start to espouse your beliefs regarding reality we'll look askance at you. And if those beliefs are insulting, denigrating, dehumanising or otherwise just plain hateful to people who are members of our forum we will ask you to stop.

    If you are incapable of doing so, then we will show you the door.

    Further moderator action regarding behaviour in this thread will be forthcoming.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2022
    Detjan, Byzantium, dragn982 and 195 others like this.
  2. Nicodemus

    Nicodemus Mr. Archleone

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    That seems perfectly fair.
     
  3. Mentos

    Mentos 吸血鬼

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    Oof, this is gonna be a shitstorm
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
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  4. Queen Fiona

    Queen Fiona Will your God accept me in my black and white?

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    Long, long overdue, I would say.
     
  5. Falzyker

    Falzyker This is weird.

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    So... Can somebody explain the why behind the change to the uninitiated?
     
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  6. Nicodemus

    Nicodemus Mr. Archleone

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  7. YiteWrite

    YiteWrite :3

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    Well, this is good to see.
     
  8. UrsaTempest

    UrsaTempest Yuri Fanatic, Archivist

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    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.
     
  9. TotalAbsolutism

    TotalAbsolutism Magnificent Bastard Moderator

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    No. This has been under discussion for some time by the moderation team.

    The long version is that due to these issues prior being held under the umbrella of Rule 8 there was a not-insignificant problem with people kicking up an unwarranted fuss regarding characters having differing or unexpected gender and sexual identities; only for the author to be the one to receive sanctions when they tried to explain themselves.

    The short version is that, much like the position we have taken regarding Covid, we do not believe that being gay, trans, or anywhere on the LGBTQ+ spectrum is a political matter.
     
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  10. EternitynChaos

    EternitynChaos Once there was a Maiden...

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  11. vyor

    vyor Oh that's cute

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    I hope that the same is true of mental issues like autism?
     
  12. TotalAbsolutism

    TotalAbsolutism Magnificent Bastard Moderator

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    Yes, that ought to be the case.
     
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  13. RageKnight

    RageKnight My heresy senses are tingling

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    Still don't get why people like to get mad at autism stuff. It's just the newest version of calling someone or something retarded, stupid, etc. It's not even that bad compared to every other mental issues. hell people with bad OCD will starve themselves if their pattern is ruined.

    Anyways nice to see the staff has taken the stance of "Look, don't be a dickhead.".
     
    Eos3, silentshot, SilvCrest and 21 others like this.
  14. 2 Hot Crown Subdues the Sinful

    2 Hot Crown Subdues the Sinful Imagine.

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    This is why QQ Mods are the best.
     
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  15. Falzyker

    Falzyker This is weird.

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    Was it ever political? I always thought it was one of those things that were "political" only because people wanted it to.

    Honestly so many people take it too seriously at most I roll my eyes and ignore it, it's their body they can do whatever the hell they want with it.
     
  16. YiteWrite

    YiteWrite :3

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    Wait, why was autism even slightly thought of as being political?

    I'm autistic, and I personally feel, that my disability shouldn't factor into anything remotely political.
     
  17. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END.

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    To be absolutely clear: are you permitting both sides of those issues?
     
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  18. TheEyes

    TheEyes Experienced.

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    The issue there is that an "opposing side" to somebody having an identity is denial of another person's identity; I'm not sure how that can ever be apolitical, or not tie in to several still-prohibited legislative and/or religious controversies around the globe (aside from a definitional change like Asperger Syndrome not being an official diagnosis since 2013).
     
    Byzantium, jamie96969, Eos3 and 31 others like this.
  19. Rakdos92

    Rakdos92 Goosh Goosh

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    Err, I'd rather not see everything into a well. Company there is... let's rather prickly.
     
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  20. Jedidusk

    Jedidusk [Mostly Lurking]

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    • Rule 1 & 5 - Not Playing Nice, Flamebaiting
    hmm but if a person walks up to you and says that they are Elvis Presley the new God of this realm are you going to believe them or are you going to deny their self proclaimed Identity?
     
  21. Darrenb209

    Darrenb209 Only way to survive is keeping your eyes on screen

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    The conversations it usually came up in is where it became political and QQ's rule 8 was always about preventing those types of conversations because this place is a NSFW content site, not a politics site.

    At the end of the day, QQ's stance here amounts to less of a rule change in and of itself and more of a clarification since what it amounts to is "If you use it to bring up politics, it's still Rule 8. Being an arse is still Rule 1. If it's neither then it's not the mod's business."
     
  22. TheEyes

    TheEyes Experienced.

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    The only way to correctly respond to an obvious bait like this is to conspicuously not respond, showing full awareness that the "hypothetical scenario" outlined here is in fact obvious bait and therefore will not be responded to, and go back to reasonable discourse.

    Just to clarify, I won't be responding to any further discussion on this particularly insidious and yet terribly trite, dead branch of troll bait, and hopefully no one else will either. After all, the deliberate juxtaposition of sexual and gender identity with delusions and mental illness is literally older than most of the members of this forum, and should have been settled decades ago, even if people continue to drag it back out into arguments, possibly out of ignorance, thinking that they're making an actual point, but usually just attempting to bait out a response.
     
  23. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END.

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    Without getting into the weeds of the issue at hand, I'll just point out some basic social dynamics.

    If A can't poke B and B can't poke A, there is enforced peace.
    If A can poke B and B can poke A, there's some hope of détente.
    If A can poke B but B can't poke A, you've just declared open season to bully B. I've seen this happen; it always results in a de facto purge.
     
  24. mrttao

    mrttao Connoisseur.

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    All this legalese is confusing. What does this actually change in practice?
     
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  25. TotalAbsolutism

    TotalAbsolutism Magnificent Bastard Moderator

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    I believe I made myself perfectly clear when I compared this to the Covid thread.
    Don't even start.
    Continue to obey rule one, and nothing will change.
     
  26. soggy noodle

    soggy noodle Piping hot, mecha flavored.

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    I don't really see why either who people want to bump uglies with irl or whether they identify with the uglies they were born with irl have any bearing on a platform that serves to function as, primarily, a fictional creative writing board.

    TL;DR - I don't care what you are or claim to be, just give me some good shit to read.
     
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  27. Amrynel

    Amrynel Wat.

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    Which is why Rule 1 still exists unchanged: Play nice with the other members on the forums.
     
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  28. CrossyCross

    CrossyCross LADY OF LOVE

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    Personally, the non-political opposing side is that someone doesn't give a shit about you. Just apathy and laziness.

    They don't give enough of a shit to hate you and want your rights revoked, or more pertinently in an anonymous website, start throwing insults and harassment. They just think this is too bothersome to deal with and won't bother to respond, or just think you're some larper, or be too lazy to bother remembering who the fuck you are ten minutes after you said something because they scrolled down to a different post or went to a different tab and they have better things to think of in their life. Just like how I really cannot be arsed to care about "african children are starving!" these days because I'm busy with my own 8-to-5 job to survive.


    Because this is the internet, and this isn't a site where people show IRL pictures so it's all a persona, and thus "everyone on the internet is either a guy or FBI" is in effect. And I could give less of a shit about this particular brand of westerner political bullshit when I could instead be looking at MILFs or traps or whatever in this particular website. And it shouldn't get political as long as people don't bring their annoying arguments with them.


    But even without saying you are trans, (let's say you're a transwoman) people will still sometimes (or often) call you like a guy because most people who haven't met you assume someone on the internet is a guy, or have already forgotten you or any mention that you're a girl, and thus go with the first.

    So...be a trans and call yourself a girl, and people who care will call you with female pronouns. Some people won't, whether through laziness or forgetfulness, or maybe actual malice, but I honestly think it's a step too far to be infracting people who just don't give a shit about some other rando on the internet, so long as insults aren't being thrown about.

    I mean, I guess if someone is frequently interacting with some trans person who's already said he wants to be called whatever the fuck that isn't ridiculous and continuously refusing to say the right words, maybe? But most everyone to everyone else is "some other dude on the site".


    Like, personally? I don't think I 'know' anyone on this site who's trans. Not the way I know a regular/important poster in my stories/quests, or someone who did me a favor (like come in with an awesome fanart or omake for a story) , or someone I regularly talk to in private messages, or someone I have had frequent (or memorable) debates with. And unless someone is one of those, I absolutely will forget they even existed, much less whatever they call themselves as opposed to lumping them in "okay, another 'dude' on the internet on the same site as me".

    Because I just don't really care about most other randos on the internet.

    EDIT: Man, this got long, but lemme summarize it then.

    TLDR: As long as this rule doesn't require me to give a fuck about some randos I don't/barely even interact with, I'm fine with it.
    Because don't expect me to immediately know whatever the fuck you are if I haven't 'seen' you, or rarely see you, or I'm feeling too lazy (which is often) to look at your signature or profile or whatever, if it's ever there.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
  29. LurkingInTheDeceit

    LurkingInTheDeceit “Brave” explorer treading “New” land

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    So, no. You’re allowed to talk about “sexuality and sexual identity (including transgender identity and its related topics)” as long as you aren’t some variation of -phobic.
    Right, but this wouldn’t seem to affect anyone like that, aside from maybe adding to the amount of conversation they skip past. This isn’t a ‘must use requested pronouns’ thing.
     
  30. TotalAbsolutism

    TotalAbsolutism Magnificent Bastard Moderator

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    Although, y'know, if you're obviously making a point of not doing it then you'd be hit same as if you were calling names in general.

    Otherwise, yes.
     
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