Squirrelly's Worm CYOA

Discussion in 'CW Index' started by Master of Squirrel-fu, May 20, 2017.

  1. Biigoh

    Biigoh Crit Stars EVERYWHERE! Moderator

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    Low tier servants are not 'weak'... they can actually be more useful than high tier servants because they're easier to level up and max out, and their effects are scary deadly.

    As a side note, some of my favorite servants is Hans Anderson, who is a 2 star caster whose effects are buff party members like no one's business, there is also Ushiwakamaru who is a 3 star rider whose effects are buff party members so they charge up their NP faster, hit harder, and does a surprising amount of damage to a single target.

    I know people also swear by the Cu (Lancer, Caster, Proto-Lancer) as they're very effective as damage types... ditto with Medea.
     
  2. Master of Squirrel-fu

    Master of Squirrel-fu Osaisen Moderator

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    From what I've found lower star servants have a lower level cap and leveling is the same rate however stat growth varies between a few distinct types. The examples you gave other than Cu don't seem to show a strong servant, just a good support character who's weak on their own. And 3 star would be about where you get the average servant level since it's in both the generic summons and the Saint Quartz summons.
     
  3. Biigoh

    Biigoh Crit Stars EVERYWHERE! Moderator

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    That's what you say... but I can get Euryale to output more damage than Gilgamesh, NP to NP. 3 star vs 5 star. I've heard of people doing monsterous things with maxed out Arash and Robin Hood.

    Lower star servants, it should be noted, can hit NP 5 which tends to give them a higher damage multiplier, they're cheaper to ascend to max, and then you throw grails on top and they're suddenly hot shit.

    Have you seen the 2 Asterios manhandle Modred video, because they basically shut down Modred and her NP every other turn thing with their NPs giving sufficient coverage.
     
  4. Master of Squirrel-fu

    Master of Squirrel-fu Osaisen Moderator

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    Quick Question, are both of these characters similarly minmaxed or is it just the lower tiered one completely tricked out vs a normal higher quality one? Is it also when the weaker one is facing very favorable circumstances compared to the other? Because looking at them it appears that Euryale has about half the maximum attack of gilgamesh, her NP being a focused single target attack, and gets a circumstance boost depending on gender. Where as Gill has an Anti-army NP that does Extra damage to everything but a a single very small group.

    Eitherway the point isn't about how exactly the game portrays them to try and be fair, in that way any DBZ fighter game protag could have Yamcha's punching out Saiyan Gods. The way these games are made is that the NPs and skills are very limited, giving stat boosts where the original concept would be something very different because of the medium it's being portrayed in and the various characters need to be balanced against each other. Again, this is like saying "Yamcha and Radditz aren't weak, If you give them these specific Z-souls, train them up to the level cap, and exploit this game mechanic they can do higher numbers than that random SSJG who didn't put any effort into minmaxing!" Or saying "Unevolved pokemon aren't weak, a perfectly EV trained Ghastly can 1hko Lugia with a Ghost attack unlike Dragonite."

    Admittedly there's a few that are ranked higher or lower than they should be, and decoupling it from the FGO servant cards may be for the best but as a generality I believe it's works to assume more starts is more powerful.
     
  5. Joebobjoe

    Joebobjoe Man of Wealth and Taste

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    Eh, honestly I feel that the opposite is true. Most 1-3 stars are gimped by game mechanics, whereas fluff wise they’re a good deal more potent, just not waifubait and therefore given out more easily. Admittedly some of the 4 or 5 stars are ridiculously strong, but a good chunk of the determining factor for stars is waifubait and recognizability. It’s not anywhere near the level to merit Yamcha comparisons.
     
  6. Biigoh

    Biigoh Crit Stars EVERYWHERE! Moderator

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    They were equal, if by equal you mean Gilgamesh has a higher atk stat.

    They were up against the same target that required being hit by several noble phantasm shots.

    It was a male servant, so both had effects going off, both were at 100% charge, both fired off without bonus to attack. No type advantage/disadvantage.
     
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  7. Master of Squirrel-fu

    Master of Squirrel-fu Osaisen Moderator

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    Okay, after deeper review of the game, I'd like to apologize to Biigoh. It appears I was wrong. So very wrong. Why is the most generic trash waifu 5 stars? Why? What sort of creature would condones such irony?

    But yeah, it seems that Stars in FGO are pointless. I don't want them to be pointless here though. I'll decouple the Gatcha power from the FGO tables, also gives handy ability to summon Servants outside of FGO. As star levels, in this case it will still be strength or power based. For now, until I can come up with a better way, the GM will be pulling one out that fits the criteria for a star level.

    1-Weak Waifu Trash, joke servants, and "Why is this a servant"? cards. (Loli-Jean Alter, Mata Hari, Hans Christian Anderson, and Worst Waifu Medb)
    2-Weak and very forgettable heroes, Gimmick Servants, How-is-this-a-thing Saber-faces, Weaker Alt of servants. (Assassin, False Assassin, Sakura Saber, Caster Nero, Billy the Kid)
    3-Actually respectable contestants, strong servants in an unfavorable type, (Not-Shirou, Saint George, Caster Cu, Caster Medea, It's-A-Trap!, Rider, Nero)
    4-Very strong servants (Arturia, Herc, Emiya, Saber Alter, Wukong, Cu, Beowolf, Siegfried)
    5-Servant OP, Plz nrf, wtf this is a literal god! (Gil, Karna, Full power Herc, Prisma Illya, Prisma-Shirou, Ryougi "Do not fuck with her" Shiki, Schathach)
     
  8. Biigoh

    Biigoh Crit Stars EVERYWHERE! Moderator

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    Because the devs know their player base.

    This is not a pay to win game, its pay to waifu.

    Also Hans like Shakespear is not trash grade. He's a support type servant. Pair him up with someone lile Souchirou or Kirei or even old man Emiya or young hothead Emiya and they shine.
     
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  9. Master of Squirrel-fu

    Master of Squirrel-fu Osaisen Moderator

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    HE may with game mechanics but in the end he's a servant who's legend is new, not really well known, and had no combat ability in life. If Avenger, the literal devil of a mythology and made of all of humanities Evil could be rendered a bottom tier servant because it turned out he was a normal human in life I will say the same for all these Author Servants.
     
  10. Biigoh

    Biigoh Crit Stars EVERYWHERE! Moderator

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    Shakespear can enhance a normal katana to a weapon able to match a noble phantasm physically in Fate/Apocrypha.
     
  11. Master of Squirrel-fu

    Master of Squirrel-fu Osaisen Moderator

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    So does Lancelot. Automatically. As a side benefit of his other power. As a Berserker.
     
  12. Biigoh

    Biigoh Crit Stars EVERYWHERE! Moderator

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    That is for his own use.

    Shakespear enhanced that katana and gave it to someone else to use as he is 'not a fighter' and was able to effectively shut down Berserker Fran in a way that required a command seal to get her to stop beating up on a marionette.

    To be honest, I don't think you should have the summoning tiers be like that.

    Ie have the 5 stars system apply to all servants where the summoned servant can be weak, so-so, average, above average, strong based on the points put into the tier.

    In short, decouple strength levels from the servants themselves and tie it to the actual summoning/compatibility.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  13. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END.

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    Am wondering whether Venus Satore's package, from J. Darksong's (NSFW) River City universe, qualifies as a World-Breaker Crossover or falls a little short.

    - Venus can bond with people via any lewd act (French kissing is sufficient). People bonded to Venus worship her as a goddess and will do anything and everything they can to serve her. The bond does not wear off and has no physical giveaways. Doesn't work on literal gods.
    -- Bonded worshippers can act as a conduit for Venus's powers, including this one (yes, any worshipper can bond other worshippers). Venus' other powers are also fueled by how many worshippers she has.
    - Anybody making mental contact with Venus or worshippers via powers (trying to undo the mind control or read their mind) gets bonded themselves.
    - Venus can heal people of physical and mental illnesses (including getting people out of permanent coma), and body-sculpt them.
    - Venus can charm people looking at her (this doesn't work through worshippers). This does appear to require some effort on her part, rather than being memetic, but otherwise seems rather effective (without any worshippers, Venus forced someone looking at her through a monitor from an adjacent room to present herself personally, though it took great effort; when she had a few thousand worshippers, a sniper assigned to take her out looked at her through his telescopic sight, got mind-whammied in about 30 seconds while waiting for the order to fire, and then shot the other snipers in his team instead of Venus).
    - Venus can (permanently) strengthen the powers of superpowered worshippers. She can unlock undiscovered powers of her worshippers, as well, but can't outright grant them. The latter is exhausting for her even when well-supplied with worshippers.
    - Venus can overeat and not get fat, and doesn't become ugly with age, though she's not immortal. ( :p )

    The infectious, permanent, instant, and total mind control certainly makes any and every Master in Worm look like a stage hypnotist by comparison, and the power-boosting/granting Trump is nasty, but making a comparison to the Triumvirate or the enumerated World-Breakers is hard due to none of them being Master.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  14. Avther

    Avther A Guy Who has no idea what he has gotten into

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    Hey, boss. Can I ask you how strong can a character be with either 'The Outsider' or 'The Crossover' from your Worm CYOA?
     
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  15. Master of Squirrel-fu

    Master of Squirrel-fu Osaisen Moderator

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    While perfect irresistible mind control would be powerful, and game breaking in any setting, in my opinion it's not a World Breaker. To me a world breaker is not just someone capable of great destruction or danger it is also someone capable of withstanding a similar amount of force or at least later developing said resistance though their own ability. This Venus person would always be limited by the strength of others even if she can boost it to a degree. Likewise there's no mention of greater physical fortitude, technically anyone determined enough could simply avoid the means by which she gains control and kill her. It's more than a Greater Power but not a World Breaker.

    It is limited by the level of the Power you buy. If you're only buying a lesser power you're only about as strong as anyone else with a Lesser Power. You aren't going to be going super saiyan buy spending 2 points after all. In the broadest strokes think of the powers tiers as the Weaker, Stronger, and End Game Secret Boss EX levels of most series. For example Lesser Powers in Worm would be about the strength of a fairly competent cape with a decent power or an inexperienced one with a strong power. There's no lower limit to it but it's upper limit is about where you'd place the more renound capes in Worm such as Armsmaster, Mouse Protector, Chevalier, Etc. From other settings this could be someone like any of the students in RWBY on average and on the level of pros like Qrow and Goodwitch on the upper end, the characters from Deadman Wonderman, The Chosen/Cursed/Unkindled Undead from Dark Souls before they Git Gud, the child/teen/sidekick characters from the DC animated shows, or the anyone from the Genin teams or the jobber jounin in Naruto before it became Ninja Ball Z.

    Greater Powers are stronger and have a large berth, at it's weakest in terms of Worm this would be someone like Alexandria (her experience and ruthlessness elevating her above just anyone who has a similar powerset), Dragon, Siberian, or Crawler. From other series it could be the likes of the not quite strongest of the setting, The absolute strongest of RWBY's powerscale like Ozpin or the Maidens, An endgame Chosen/Cursed/Unkindeled Undead, the named Jounin in Naruto before it became Ninja Ball Z, The Dragonborn, Emiya Shirou from Fate Stay Night. Toward the middle are Capes like Eidolon, GU, and Echidna. From other series it'd be the stronger Servants from FSN like Saber and Herc, most of the Dead Apostles from Tsukihime, Shiki Ryougi, The stronger Touhous like Remi, Yuka, or Ran, the more powerful and eldritch Dark Souls Bosses like Manus or the Daughters of Chaos, and the strongest of the greater powers being something that stands toe to toe with Endbringers, walking apocalypses, Khepri, Dragon Unchained, and a Full Power Eidolon go here. From other series this would be the likes of the Angels from Evangelion like Zeruel, Campione and Heretic Gods, Berserking Evangelion Unit 01, Kriemhild Gretchen from Madoka, Gilgamesh or Karna from FSN, Types and Etherliners from Typemoon, or such.
     
  16. Avther

    Avther A Guy Who has no idea what he has gotten into

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    Ohh...Nice......What about Danta and Vergil from 'Devil May Cry'? I take it their strength is somewhere in 'The Crossover' level?
     
  17. Master of Squirrel-fu

    Master of Squirrel-fu Osaisen Moderator

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    Never played it.
     
  18. Avther

    Avther A Guy Who has no idea what he has gotten into

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    Really? Well, you should try the series when you have the chance, especially 3 and 4. They're pretty good in my opinion, even the reboot is decent in gameplay, regardless of the character design.
     
  19. Master of Squirrel-fu

    Master of Squirrel-fu Osaisen Moderator

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    I don't really plan to.
     
  20. Avther

    Avther A Guy Who has no idea what he has gotten into

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    *shrug* Suit yourself then, how's the progress on your RP? I'm looking forward to seeing another update in the IC thread....
     
  21. Wheenesss

    Wheenesss Not too sore, are you?

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    Question, would immunity to Masters be a viable thing to gain with Power Perks?
     
  22. Good hunter

    Good hunter Not too sore, are you?

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    So after reading this I have an idea for a story but would like some clarification. How does a crossover character obtain a world breaker classification? Also let's say you were to crossover as neo from the Matrix, most of his skills were only usable in the Matrix so would he be really weakened in the real world or would the real world be treated as the Matrix?
     
  23. Mgunh1

    Mgunh1 RnD droid #70021

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    Rule-of-thumb I use is: Mid-series Dragonball Goku is basic, pre-namek/super-saiyan Dragonball Z Goku is tier 2 (crossover), SSJ Goku and over is world breaker.

    Literally, if your chosen character can break a world then they probably classify as world breaker.

    As for Matrix, it depends on how you interpret the crossover mechanic. Are you crossing over Matrix!Neo or Real!Neo? Because they have very different powers.
    Matrix!Neo has flight, super-speed, strength and reflexes, and knows any skill that he needs to know at that particular time (Uber on crack). However, this is mostly a result of the below;
    Real!Neo has some form of Technopathy that was never fully explained. How strong that is depends on your own personal fan wank.

    IMO, you could say that a crossover of Neo is a technopath whose power grows in strength and application the closer his brain is to the targeted machine and the more advanced that machine is.

    Either way, neither Neos would be world breakers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017 at 10:38 AM