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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Experienced.

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    Crisis of Infinite Earths, Each universe has a Monitor and the anti matter universe has the Antimonitor. The Monitors doing NOTHING to prevent travel to other universes is what caused the crisis. Basically Antimonitor became aware that positive matter universes exist and decided to destroy them. Something that would not have happened if someone had not used a machine to look into the anti matter universe just when the Antimonitor was paying attention.

    So unless the local Monitor does not know about the crisis it makes sense for him to prevent travel between universes.
     
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  2. RamiroGalletti

    RamiroGalletti Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    on one hand :fair point.
    on the other: you are using PUPULAR characters from a MASIVE company, and you TOLD US the continuity you are using. AND you did not put a link to the original story involving Teal lantern.
    a sinple edit to the 1° appereance with "a link to the original story" would have benn the polite thing to do.
    (sorry for the bad english, or any percibed rudeness)
     
  3. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

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    The title of the first chapter is a link to the original story.
     
  4. Radix

    Radix Getting sticky.

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    Probably. I dont really see why it is good manners to ask permission. It isnt needed and doesnt do anything.
     
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  5. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Yup, this is proceeding just as I felt it would.
     
  6. ironbabyjones

    ironbabyjones Making the rounds.

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    I greatly enjoy WTR, but I set it down about a year ago (planning to catch up eventually some day). Hearing that Vanillabun was showing up made me pop back in. Go go Vanilla! Melt OL’s grinchy heart with the power of friendship and tabletop gaming!
     
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  7. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    No, in I Want To See You Smile, Vanilla mentions selling copper.
    I wish I could predict things as well as you.
     
  8. Deadring

    Deadring Screee!

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    Forum etiquette is a topic many forum posters feel strongly about.

    Not to sound condescending, but it should have been obvious.

    Deadring rolled 1 die of 100 faces, total: 68
    Rolled on: May-02-2021, 08:23pm
    68
     
  9. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

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    Let's say somebody else was writing a fanfic that got massively popular, and they had an interdimensional traveler show up that turned out to be Zoat, and then he raped that parallel's version of Zatanna who was still 14 years old. Would that be a problem? I'd think so, can't speak for Zoat if he'd have a problem with it but some fans would. Now Zoat has so far handled the character respectfully, hell she's coming off nicer and smarter than she did in the original work, and that's probably why the author said they'd have said yes if asked. That's why it's good manners to ask for permission, because then the author of an SI can say they trust the person asking the permission to do their work justice. No one is saying Zoat had to ask permission, just that it would have been better to have done so.
     
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  10. Radiant Knight

    Radiant Knight Phoenix Fire

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    I mean I think everyone can agree character assassination is bad. I don't think that it's relevant in the context we're dealing with, though.
     
  11. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

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    Is it though? Why? If it's not rude to write about someone else's SI without asking for permission, then why is it rude to do so poorly? That's the rub, Zoat hasn't actually written anything wrong, and in general can be trusted to treat characters he writes with respect (except Nabu and Superman). I'm sure most of the writers of various fanfics would jump for joy to be included in this story, which actually makes the fact that he didn't ask worse.
     
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  12. Megaolix

    Megaolix Moderator

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    Guys, I have to admit the situation is kinda fairly new and staff will likely need time to discuss it. In the meantime, let's avoid the pitchforks, please.
     
  13. lancelot

    lancelot Grand High Poobah

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    It's a story five years dead, who gives a fuck? Do your thing, don't shit on the character too hard as a common courtesy, and 'all will be well'.
     
  14. Radix

    Radix Getting sticky.

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    Does Blaul's statuary rape in negative 10 count?

    Yeah I agree that character assasination is bad, but this isnt necessarily that.

    Plus this is a consequence of you putting out a story. It being a self-insert doesnt afford it special rights. SIs are characters just like any other, the only difference is they are based on you specifically as opposed to being based om other characters or people you know or even one you invented. I dont see how one is worse than another.
     
  15. TheLunarwolf

    TheLunarwolf Getting out there.

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    Well, the person who wrote the character seems to give a fuck.

    Hence why it's blown up into something that has had Moderator involvement.
     
  16. lancelot

    lancelot Grand High Poobah

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    No mods here and the mods there just told them to cut it the fuck out. Also it's a dead character from a dead story, saying the character is really her is a gods damned joke. She wants to go with that she can show us the bunny ears. Nevermind it's a story that stole most of it's entire concept from Zoat's story and I don't remember Zoat crying about it, so lets just let it die already.
     
  17. Radix

    Radix Getting sticky.

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    There is literally a mod a few comments up from you sayi lng they are discussing it.
     
  18. Tambourine

    Tambourine Getting sticky.

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    I'd say the big difference here is that, when a work is commercially or otherwise 'professionally' released (see, for example, author Cory Doctorow releasing various works for free and public use but with clearly indicated licensing and attribution), it's easy for even cursory research to determine which work is the original, and who to attribute anything they like or don't like in a given derivative work.

    When things are purely within the realm of fanfiction, however, this kind of research becomes much more difficult, and Mr Zoat's ambiguous use of a plain link without any other indication of if this is a collaboration or merely a recursive fanfic really doesn't help matters.

    With this in mind, for example, I feel like a simple, clear attribution along the lines of "Character X is based on work Y by author Z. This is a fanfiction use of that work and author Z is not involved in authoring this story." would have resulted in a much more neutral reaction, even without any bothering to get permission.
     
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  19. Doccer

    Doccer Know what you're doing yet?

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    Huh. My take away was that she lost the sum total of her experience there and whatever godlike being put her there, had stamp a OC personality in the grey matter to keep things going the way it had set things up. She really seemed she was pulling information from her ass to fill out an origin story up until then.
    How did she get the SI knowledge if she really did previously exist?
     
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  20. Coda

    Coda I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    people's (because "people" is already plural)

    Common misconception. He actually does, because his songs -- legally speaking -- aren't parodies. They're covers with comedy lyrics. In order to be legally considered a protected parody, it must be making commentary on the original. If it's just a funny song with lyrics about something else in the world, it's not a fair-use parody.

    (Well. Strictly speaking, he doesn't need permission to write them, but he needs permission to distribute them once they've been written.)

    My reading is that the character is still the author at some level and is still involved in writing the story.
     
  21. hkim

    hkim Getting sticky.

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    Good manners usually aren't needed and usually don't do anything. That's why they're manners and not laws or rules or anything. Agreed we're unlikely to hash it out by arguing though :p
     
  22. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    Which might be a good place to let the arguments go? I know everyone wants to have their say, but at this point, it's the same two or three points being rehashed. Let's leave it to the Mods, Whiteeyes and Mr Zoat to sort out the argument in private and let our discussion turn back to in-universe stuff... Please? :( Before someone says something that gets the thread locked...
     
  23. BartlettMagic

    BartlettMagic just GIVE me... the f'n UPDATES

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    oh, oh, i want to be pedantic for a second!

    as an American, Bruce would probably say "programs" rather than "schemes" in this context- while they are technically synonyms in the English language, in America 'scheme' tends to have a negative connotation to it!

    yay, i pretended to be smart on the internet today!
     
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  24. Bramble Thorn

    Bramble Thorn Verified Silhouette

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    Does the Inviolate author have a SB/SV/QQ account and is part of that community?
    People may care more about one than the other as an Ingroup/Outgroup thing.
    And I have no problem at all with him not asking DC. Because I think there is a big difference between in impersonal corporation and an actual person.

    Well you got the Mods talking about you. And nothing bad forum related has ever happened from you doing that in the past...
    Also, just my two cents...

     
  25. topin89

    topin89 Virgin Centrist

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    Thanks. I almost carried this on. I hope it will be resolved peacefully. God, maybe there would be some collaboration now.

    And in story, I hope Paul will see that after eight years if constant multiverse stuff-fixing, he is either not a human at that point or that he became a real jerk to everybody for no good reason. Being tired of multiverse bullshit is not a valid excuse to ignore other people's feelings.

    On the other hand, kinda ironic that while Vanilla did a lot of good staff, it's not like she asked anyone if they wanted renovation, while Paul gave Bullock kinda-sorta control of what to enhance.

    I look forward to how SIs' worldviews will clash. Maybe it wouldn't be as one-sided as most previous lectures. And that alien thing, I guess Paul forgot what Viera looks like, if he knew in the first place.
     
  26. Belenus

    Belenus I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Am I the only one who's gotten the impression that this crossover is intended to be a learning experience for the Paul in question? Cause I'm getting a "The real treasure was the friends we made along the way" vibe from Paul and Vanilla's interactions.
     
  27. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Well, as much as I'd like to pat myself on the back, unlike with the SV situation...I couldn't have warned you about this one as I have no idea who this other apparent SI is.

    But once a fuss was made....yeah it's gone just as I expected. I wish I could claim amazing predictive abilities, but sadly...it's just that things so very often occur exactly the same way.

    The internet: The place of porn and drama.

    And boy....I've seen a LOT of drama since I first got Dial up. I've been editing on Y!gal when a Supermod nuked the whole god damn thing from the inside, wiping hundreds of thousands of pieces of art and writing, before running off to try and start their own website. All because they got pissed at being overruled.

    I was a part of Nuclear storm for 15 years. Before one day, a group of New people (mostly just one in particular) dropped A Pronoun bomb that ended the entire thing. Some of my old friends I managed to find....some I never have seen again.

    I kinda feel like Roy Batty at the end of Blade runner. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe." Indeed....A gay teen with the internet in the late 90's into the 2000s? I have seen some fucking drama.

    Saddest thing here? Last two parts are just flavored filler. Nothing to even care about.

    But its the internet....and if its not porn....then its drama.
     
  28. Jonn Wolfe

    Jonn Wolfe (Verified Sarcastic) (Not a Wolf)

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    That is sadly and extremely accurate.
     
  29. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

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    Given how Vanilla is, that does not seem likely. "Joy" can be found in many places, and she finds joy in trolling the shit out of people.
     
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  30. Threadmarks: Negetiations (part 6)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    7th August 2012
    20:20 GMT


    "'Something given has no value'."

    I frown, then exhale sharply as we're led towards the bridge.

    "You have a power ring. Don’t be lazy and watch the film version."

    "The book version doesn't summarise the idea so well."

    "It's not that complicated an idea. The way I value things has changed a lot since I got my ring, too. I only got into fighting because I realised how dangerous the universe is and wanted to be able to maximise my advantages. Which sounds rational, until you realise that I've put myself in more danger trying to learn how to do that."

    "And if that was your real motivation, you should have stopped the moment you realised that was what was happening."

    "If it stayed my real motivation, I should have stopped the moment I realised that was what was happening. But by then I had friends in that subculture. And I had-." I frown. "Did I ever talk to you about the Crime Bible?"

    "No." Her eyes flash and she nods. "Greed. The fable of the First's entry into Har-Mammon."

    "The other way of looking at it. In your former life you'd have been happy with the metaphorical cup of water. But now…"

    "So what exactly is my Har-Mammon?"

    "No idea. And that's the problem restated. The comparison just struck me as amusing. What are people telling you that you can't have?"

    "Nothing. … Oh. That's the problem, isn't it?"

    "Maybe." The bridge on this ship doesn't have doors, but our escort turns aside as we walk through the noise-cancelling field across the entry. "Maybe. Captain!"

    "My lord Illustres!" The richly-dressed merchant smiles and nods. "How have you enjoyed the journey?"

    "Pleasant enough." I shrug. "I'm not used to travelling by ship. I'm afraid that I have little to compare it to."

    "I suppose that a power ring does have that utility. And you, my lady?"

    Lantern Drusa smiles politely.

    "It's the nicest cargo ship I've ever travelled upon. It's a shame the Illustres kept me too busy to get a proper tour."

    "Perhaps on the way back. We're-."

    A chime sounds, and the crew focus on their stations. We're back in real space. I look through the hull, trying to spot the rest of the fleet: the cargo barges and escort frigates. Yes, there they are, exactly where they should be. The form of faster than light travel our hosts use makes it a little tricky to keep in contact with other ships, though on the plus side it's a little faster at moving high mass objects than what the L.E.G.I.O.N. fleet uses.

    "We're in normal space…" The captain looks around and gets a nod from the comms officer. "And so is everyone else."

    "Good show. What's the protocol for requesting a pilot?"

    "Usually, they contact us when we get a little closer. They're the ones who are more heavily occupied, after all. I assume that you want to make official contact with the government of Yuna?"

    "Well… Let them know I'm here, anyway. It's not as if we're in a rush. What was it, four days if they've got a pilot already on station?"

    "Pilots, my lord. One per ship."

    Drusa frowns. "How do they make sure that no one overrides them?"

    "A combination of interdiction fields and the enmity of every other ship in the system." The captain makes a gesture of dismissal. "We're required to submit the general design of our control systems ahead of time, and they use a form of memory implant that allows the pilots to be trained extremely quickly. But they know perfectly well that if any one ship wanted to circumvent their controls, it could do so. For a few moments, at least."

    "Will there be a customs inspection?"

    "They'll want to confirm that our stated cargo matches what's actually in our hold. There are very few goods absolutely prohibited in Yuna, but there are certain things that can't be traded on the surface of the planet. There's little point bringing refined metals onto a planet if the buyer is going to need to drag it back out of the gravity well. And they aren't keen on weapons or highly destructive substances threatening their population centres."

    "Are slaves traded here?"

    He looks slightly awkward for a moment.

    "Technically, no. Employment contracts can be traded, though for the most part that's for high status individuals who are well compensated. Most of the worlds in this region of space have little interest in purchasing unskilled labourers."

    "And in reality?"

    "There's probably some. It's not a major industry though; that I can tell you for certain."

    Not as if it would really be appropriate for me to try doing anything about it anyway. Not until we've finished our war with the Reach. But it's nice to have a reminder that I'll always have something to do somewhere. What was the Warhammer 40,000 quote? 'For those who seek perfection there is no rest this side of the grave'? Something like that.

    "Why are you smiling?"

    "I just had my fear of unemployment quashed." I can tell from the expression on Lantern Drusa's face that she doesn't understand. "My greatest desire is to effect positive change in the universe. If everything was perfect then I'd have nothing to do; I'd be in your position."

    "What does your perfection look like?"

    "I'm not exactly sure. I was exposed to a Black Mercy once, and that showed me-."

    The comms officer signals the captain again, who makes a gesture of agreement. A moment later the captain's screen lights up with the face of a gyuanite, the local dominant sophont. A non-standard humanoid race, they have deep blue skin and an elongated head and body. This one has.. some sort of mouth and eye guards, though I suppose they could be either purely functional or purely decorative.

    "Captain. Welcome back to Yuna."

    "Thank you, system controller. I would like to make my approach as soon as possible."

    "Quite understandable. I can dispatch a customs detail to you at once. Please have your full manifest up to date for their arrival."

    "Of course."

    The system controller presses some buttons off screen.

    "I'm afraid that there won't be enough pilots for your entire fleet for half a local day, but I can dispatch enough for your own ship and one escort immediately. Would that be acceptable?"

    "Certainly."

    "Then I will arrange it at once. Are there any other matters which you wish to bring to my attention?"

    "One.. other matter. I'm transporting a diplomat from Maltus."

    "Maltus?"

    The captain motions to me, and I step into range of his console's camera.

    "Pleased to meet you. I'm the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps, and I would like to meet with a representative of your government at their earliest convenience."

    The system controller's skin turns mildly green.

    "I will refer that upwards at once. Excuse me."

    The screen deactivates.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
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