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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Stsword

    Stsword I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Actually....

    In the comics, Scott Free has been living on Earth since 1802. He was married to a human woman for 50 years while Barda stayed loyal and on Apokalips til the 20th century, after reuniting with Scott after he became Mister Miracle. No idea if the YJ writers are planning on taking inspiration from that.


    Certainly possible, other possibilities include Vigilante, and Manhunter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  2. Sad Machine

    Sad Machine Its Saturday my dudes

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    Oh man I hope this world has room for OL to just...cut loose you know I Loooove diplomacy as much as the next guy but I really just want our boy OL to genuinely want to just HURT someone...anyone really (to PROVE why hes to most powerful orange there is and all that)
     
  3. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Huh. Now that you mention it, I dimly remember reading that comic.
     
  4. iamnuff

    iamnuff Connoisseur.

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    I don't think 'Where's the profit in revenge' is a very useful tack to take against an angry kid who's had his father murdered.
    It's not about gaining something, it's about fuck Wilson.

    Of course, that's complicated by the fact that Ultraman was a complete fucking monster himself who deserved everything he got.
    That's a lot harder to explain to a furious and grieving son though.

    That aside, I hope this talk about Lamprey and Tula just had OL quietly mark Lamprey for death, in the back of his mind.
    OL has killed people for less, and doing it in a way not traceable to yourself shouldn't be too hard. Not with a power-ring.

    Wait for your moment and dose him with some space-poison from your ring's database. Use something that acts quickly and hit him with a construct-dart concentrated 1000x past the lethal dose.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  5. Gantradies

    Gantradies Know what you're doing yet?

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    you know, if that soundbyte of him cheerfully (figure of speach, obviously)saying/implying (intentionally or otherwise) he doesnt care if he has to murder/negligent homicide/depraved heart murder millions of people to get revenge made it to the news...
     
  6. Siskulous

    Siskulous Know what you're doing yet?

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    Save for two problems. One, OL doesn't know Lamprey's full capabilities, which significantly complicates things. For all he knows Lamprey might be fully immune to all poisons because of magic, which he would have no way to effectively bypass save crumblers. Two, given the context if one of their number were to suddenly up and die from unknown causes OL would immediately be the prime suspect whether it could be traced to him or not. He's an outsider in a paranoid group and they know he can do stuff like that.
     
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  7. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Versed in the lewd.

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    Oh El is not a fae, he can and will lie and or exaggerate.

    And Luthor risks dooming his whole universe by opening the wrong portal but the thing is not to push him to do that.

    "An entire Earth devastated by a zombie plague. One were Workd War II has been going for decades. One Earth ruled by Dark Magic, an entire universe were Darkseid word is law.... Basically think of every horror and disaster movie you can... and multiply that by a billion. That's how freaking scary the multiverse is. There was an old Japanese cartoon were the bad guys dropped into habitable planets, killed all smart life and they sold the planets.There are guys who basically do that to entire galaxies. And that's not even starting on diseases. Something like the common cold is lethal to other species not from Earth, what about an Earth that never had the cold virus? Or one were they had diseases we don't have any defences to? Something as someone being in the wrong Earth and sneezing could kill most of the population of that Earth!"
     
  8. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    I don't want to give you the mistaken idea that Sea Witch is a good person or anything like that. She would quite happily kill everyone in America if she could do so in a way which didn't impact nearby sea life.

    There are no nice people in the Syndicate. There's a range from Barracuda at one end (professional and very successful mercenary who makes an effort to stay somewhat within the bounds of the law) to Owlman (omnicidal nutter), but none of these people are actually sympathetic in any normal sense.
     
  9. Siskulous

    Siskulous Know what you're doing yet?

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    The argument could be made, though, that the fact that the person Lamprey is doing these horrible things to is a terrible person doesn't make them any less horrible. Though it should also be pointed out to anyone who thinks Lamprey is a worse person than Sea Witch for this that he did that after she tried to murder him in cold blood to get out of an arranged marriage and he knew that the damage he was doing could be fixed.

    Frankly, they're both disgusting people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  10. Jiro

    Jiro Getting out there.

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    Lithium and strontium aren't normally radioactive, although Strontium-90 is a famous radioactive isotope of strontium.
     
  11. iamnuff

    iamnuff Connoisseur.

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    Eh, i guess I should have figured that Atlantis wasn't filled with nice people by the fact that the thing that had Barracuda set Lamprey on Garth was a racist tirade.
    Still, dude eats people for fun and is a torturer, slaver and presumably a rapist. I don't really feel like it's a mistake to say that he needs to go.
    The fact that his current victims aren't very sympathetic doesn't really mean that he's safe to leave alive at the end of all this.

    Though I suppose that the more we find out about the personal deeds of all members of the Syndicate and Young Offenders, the more I'd want to kill all them.

    At the moment it's a sort of low-level 'This group is too dangerous and evil to be left alive' feeling, but that's because I don't really know what they've done beyond be a small part of the overall syndicate's crimes.

    I imagine their version of Miss Martian has probably gotten up to some fucked up mindrape shit, for example. And an Evil Zatara could do some horrific shit with magic. Turning people into animals and leaving them that way is the least of it.

    I kinda want to know more about their version of Rocket though, especially if OL can't tell if she's just drunk/high or if her cybernetics are messing with her head.

    I mean, he murdered and ate her fiance, and then tried to claim her as spoils of war. That'd make her more like a slave than a wife, regardless of whether her parents agreed to it or not.
    Trying to poison him isn't really 'an attempt to murder him in cold blood just to try to get out of an arranged marriage' so much as it is self-defence with a side-order of revenge for your dead fiance.

    Oh, and the fact that you're only doing damage that you know will heal doesn't really lessen the weight of your crimes. It's still torture, either way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  12. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Torture... Well, he would if Barracuda told him to, but it's not really his thing. Eating people is more for power than fun. Rapist? Sort of. The thing about going from zero to three hundred was pretty accurate. When he's not trying to eat you he's pretty good company. Now that he's reasonably confident that Tula isn't going to try poisoning him again he's genuinely pleasant to her. If she said 'no' he'd probably be alright with that. She's just too scared of him to risk it.
    Zorina's not really into that. She'd do it to an enemy, sure, but she's not sadistic about it. Just Machiavellian. 'Do no one a small injury'.
    She doen't have cybernetics. Owlman used Arnus' pod to modify her body. Unfortunately for her, he didn't precisely understand what he was doing and caused her serious brain damage.
     
  13. iamnuff

    iamnuff Connoisseur.

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    I'm referring to eating pieces of Tula as punishment for trying to poison him.
    The infliction of pain and a (temporary) maiming in order to inspire compliance through fear.
    Torture.

    Sleeping with someone who's only 'willing' because they're too terrified to say "no" to you (because you tortured them) is definitely rape.
    Granted this is QQ so what sort of light that gets shown in is dependant on what kind of story you're trying to tell, but WTR has always been fairly straightforwards on that front.

    See, when you said 'he used Arnus's pod to modify her' I took that to mean that he removed parts of the pod, and then used them to modify her.
    As-in, surgically.

    I don't know much about Icon, but if Icon used his pod to somehow transform into a human-looking person, then I guess there was some sort of shape-shifting tech inside it?
    In his verse I guess he used it to try to... give her powers, or something?
     
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  14. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    No, he ate pieces of her to make the magic work. The fact it hurt her a lot was a side effect.
    I'm not sure that having sex with someone who is apparently willing is rape. Lamprey isn't telepathic.
    Oh! No.
    The pod turned this into this so yes, it can alter people.
     
  15. DrThoth

    DrThoth Know what you're doing yet?

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    What do Terminans (I believe that’s Icon’s species) naturally look like then? (Edit: Mr Zoat posted a link that answered this question while I was typing).
    I don’t recall if his home society’s name was the Collective or Co-operative but either option suggests a multi-species society to me, is that the case?
    Might be interesting for one of the SIs to visit, possibly for Orange Lantern Corps trade or diplomacy (the kinetic belts seem like useful tech though I imagine the Darkstars and other Maltusian-based organizations still have higher technology). I know little to nothing about them, including their location in space and treatment of external powers, so it’s more an idle suggestion.

    I like the the idea of this episode exploring the after-effects of the righteous face-punching from Crisis of Two Earths (I do miss the old DC original animated movies before they became more standardized and boring, albeit with some exceptions), but I feel like it’s such a delicate yet messy and complicated situation that I don’t see any satisfactory resolution that could be reached in a single episode, and I don’t believe this is a double-parter. Granted, the fact that there’s no quick fix does fit the current (and likely overall) narrative, it’s just difficult to get fully engaged with everything. It’s still great worldbuilding as ever though, so I always enjoy that.

    I think this general situation does regrettably happen often in real life, and would be rape (since there’s no actual consent), just with the caveat that it was unintentional rape since the perpetrator genuinely believed consent was given. Fear of violence or retribution being the primary impetus behind going along with sexual activity is pretty coercive in an emotional sense. The victims don’t telepathically know that the perpetrator in these cases would actually respect their refusal either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  16. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Not too sore, are you?

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    I'd disagree, Lamprey, Ultraboy and some others have sympathetic backstories at least. I'd put it more like 'none of these people are good or especially nice' although some are rational and have mostly normal reasonable desires (like Ultraman who mostly just wanted to be left alone to run his small to medium sized "business").
     
  17. iamnuff

    iamnuff Connoisseur.

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    You don't really need to be telepathic to know that the person who's fiance you murdered (and ate) and who's life you control via fear (The fear of physical harm, and the fear that he can now see everything she sees, hear everything she hears and feel everything she feels, so she'll never be able to act against him again, or even hope to escape from him.) is scared of you.

    No, telepathy isn't required, merely a moderate amount of 'not being completely stupid'
    That's assuming that his attempt to make her his wife alone wouldn't qualify. The fact that her parents went along with it doesn't really mean that it's not still basically kidnapping and rape. It just means that they don't care enough about her to actually try to avoid it.

    In real-life miscommunications can happen where one side misinterprets the intentions of the other and believes that they'll be hurt if they say 'stop' even though the other party had no ill intention.

    Given what Lamprey did though, that really doesn't seem like the case here. Even if you say he'd have actually stopped, he couldn't have been unaware of the fact that she was terrified of him, given that that was (i assume) his entire intention when he ate parts of her and cast a spell that him spy on everything she does.

    Even if it wasn't intended as coercion-into-sex, it was still coercion-into-obedience via violence and fear, and when you're trying to enter a sexual relationship with someone (like forcing them to marry you, for example) coercing them into sex, and coercing them into obedience are very much the same thing.

    I know Zoat said that the pain he caused her was a 'side effect' and the spell was the actual intent, but wasn't the intention of the spell itself to make her too afraid to act against him again? And he can't have been unaware of the emotional impact that her physical injuries (followed by a threat to eat her brain) would have?

    Dude knew.
    He doesn't even have plausible deniability. Not unless Sea Witch is a very good actress.

    Edit: Fucked up a quotebox. Sorry Cuchulin
     
  18. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Not too sore, are you?

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    Don't worry about it.
     
  19. Stsword

    Stsword I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Yes, they are many species.

    As for their treatment of foreign powers, well they're kind of like a benign Roman empire, they assimilate.

    If you attack them, they give you all their science and technology.

    Shortly after becoming a post scarcity post death society with infinite energy, star trek style energy to matter replicators capable of making anything including new bodies if you die, getting genetically optimized to give you Kryptonian style powers, and getting hooked up to an interplanetary internet that connects them to the Cooperative, the attackers become part of the Cooperative.

    In Milestone, that worked every time but once, they unfortunately came across a species that well, when it comes to combat shared the attitude of the Orcs of Warhammer 40000, so they just attacked them with better weapons.

    Worlds too primitive to share all the technology with are basically put under watch until the Cooperative thinks they are advanced enough to make the jump to techno utopia.
     
  20. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Had a thought, considering OL's use of stealth and cloaking technology. Could his ring enable size shifting as well? And would he see any value in it?
     
  21. Stsword

    Stsword I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Well if it can't, it's not because it can't in the comics-

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

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    Definitely if he got the Atom’s tech. But I don’t think he’s been featured yet
     
  23. Threadmarks: Doppelgängered (part 17)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    5th February
    20:49 GMT -5


    A cowboy escaped from the eighteenth century sets his guitar aside as the last of the notes fade away. Dull red leather jacket, blue bandana covering the lower part of his face and a decidedly black hat… The costume puts me in mind of Gregory Saunders, but he's a very old man back on Earth 16. I'm pretty sure that his lycanthropy is the only thing that keeps him functioning, and I don't know if werewolves have indefinite lifespans. This fellow's younger. Great grandson of the local version, maybe?

    A small crowd of Made Men have… Not 'gathered' but.. perhaps 'congregated' around him as he sits on the edge of the fountain in the middle of the Shadowcrest garden. The building is in the equivalent location to that of its Earth 16 double, which made me a little worried until Mister Scott explained to me that the exterior is protected by heavy duty illusions and wards. We can see out, but no one who comes this way will see anything very interesting. Speaking of the old revenant, he's over to one side of the garden talking to the local version of Hawkman and RobotmanManhawk and Automaton. Old cronies from the Crime Lodge days.

    Back on Earth 16, I've given Doctor Crane a little post-mortem fame by bringing his failed attempts to gain legal personhood back to public attention. Here, he's famous for not caring one bit about having a human form. Over the years his brain box has been plugged into wheeled and tracked vehicles, bipedal and quadrupedal robots, factory machines, mainframe computers and on one notable occasion an Apache helicopter gunship. His Syndicate file indicates that they have him working on facility management in one of their storage depots at the moment, because while physical frailty isn't as much of a problem for him as it is for his contemporaries he's still an old brain in there.

    "Any y'all got any requests?"

    Heck, this is as good a place as any to get some attention. I generate a construct banjo and let my hands glow with orange light as I pluck a few notes.

    Through the crowd I see the guitar player jerk his head around to look at me.

    "And who you suppos' to be?"

    I smile, shrug and play the refrain again as the crowd starts to part between us.

    He takes hold of his guitar. "Guitar leads this duet, jackass."

    I shrug. "I'm not stopping you. You're just not playing."

    "That how y'all want it?" He stands, guitar at the ready. "Alright. Ah'm game. Keep up if'n y'can."

    He skips ahead, playing the next riff. I take a couple of steps closer, echoing it as I go. He's already moving onto the next part as I finish. I'm not sure if he's annoyed about being forced to share his stage or he just wants to find out how good I am. Which makes me feel very slightly bad, as I've never played a banjo in my life and am barely having any input in where my rings are sending my fingers. I couldn't outplay an actual musician without studying an awful lot of professionals and taking on board huge amounts of data, but for something relatively simple where I only have to play off-

    He's getting faster, and he's smiling under that bandana. Yes, he thinks he's testing me.

    -one person rather than a whole orchestra, conductor and audience this works fine. Since the only part that's not being handled by my ring is the movement of the rest of my body, I make a show of copying his body language at the same delay as the notes are being played. He's still getting faster, and I really think that at this stage he's trying to make me fail. Maybe a little fail that only he will notice. A supervillain musician hazing.

    Sorry, it's a well-known tune and power rings don't trip up over keying.

    He reaches a fast pace as the song approaches its end, his smile calcifying as it requires all of his concentration to maintain his breakneck pace. We're only about a metre apart now, and I think that without my rings I'd need to splint my hand to recover from moving my fingers at this speed. But… He seems to be enjoying himself, and from the expressions on the faces of the crowd I'd say they are too.

    The music reaches a fever pitch, then with a final strum dies. Evil Vigilante and I stare each other in the eyes for a moment.

    "Hah!" He pushes his guitar to the side and holds out his right hand. "You're alright. Put 'er there!"

    I allow my construct to dissipate as I take his hand in mine and shake it, musician to fraud.

    "Name's Desperado. Fastest guitar in the west. You another Power Ring?"

    I hold up my ring. "I'm afraid so."

    "Three rings? You compensating fer something there, partner?"

    Best serious face on. "There's no such thing as too much equipment."

    There are a few sniggers at that, both from the crowd and from the man opposite me.

    "Y'know, you do kinda look like Bluey."

    "Family resemblance. Pleased to meet you."

    Okay, got a degree of attention. Now, how best to make use of it.

    "And I'm sorry about stealing your stage, I'll give it right back."

    "Oh yeah? I've run with rodeo clowns before. Show me what you can do."

    He walks away from the fountain towards his accomplices Black Knight and Pulsar. And.. now most of America's most wanted are staring at me.

    "You all know why we're here. Slade Wilson's people are pushing when they used to hide, income is down and the new bosses are telling you to take it and hide. And -understandably- you're pissed. An arse-kicking is a lot less fun when you're receiving rather than giving, and Doctor Chaos was talking some good shit, wasn't he?" I generate a construct helmet matching the one he housed his consciousness in. "Killing a few hundred people didn't work, clearly the answer is to kill thousands!" I dismiss the helmet. "After all, things improved so much after Connecticut."

    "The sad fact is, business as usual? Is not going to work. We've gotten to the point where we are so hated that it's overwhelming their fear. It's not that they're less scared -and as I look around here I can see some very scary people- it's that they don't care that they're scared. People with nothing to lose will do crazy things. Kill all a man's friends, and he might just pop over to a parallel universe and recruit more. Kill a man's wife, and he might surprise you by invading your home with enough fusion bombs to split the moon in half. A little fear smoothes the wheels. A lot of fear throws everything out."

    "None of you are stupid. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. You know that the same old scams aren't working. And you're all looking around for the new scam. So let me lay it out for you. Wilson's people are perfectly happy to repeat Connecticut in every state if that's what it takes to win. And I'm sure some of you would be as well. But ask yourself this: who profits? If we expended the Syndicate's entire strength, all our secret weapons projects, everything… What do we get? A giant, smouldering wasteland to rule over. Do you want to live in a wasteland? Because I don't."

    "I didn't become a supervillain-" At all. … I think. "-to live in a wasteland. I became a supervillain to enrich myself. Maybe a few people around here like fighting for the sake of it, but I doubt you'd do it for free." In the second row, Vamp shrugs. "I'm not going to live somewhere without running water. I want goddamn running Champagne! Who profits? It should always be us. And if something doesn't profit us, then we shouldn’t be doing it! And right now, the United States of America is far, far too hot for us to operate profitably."

    "Someone with superpowers and no moral hang-ups can always make money. So that's what we're going to do: make money. Go places where we can make money, do things that make us money. Over the next few weeks, you're all going to be getting marching orders and shipping out to places where there's money to be made and no US army on every street to stop you. I'm sure you all remember how to take over other people's syndicates and make them work for us, it wasn't all that long ago you did it for the old Management. But if you've got a better idea, come and talk to me about it. People with good ideas could find themselves getting rapid promotion. And if you don’t have a better idea, but don't like my idea anyway and are going to piss and moan about having to work for your money, then fuck off. You know where the door is, and if you're really lucky you'll make it five paces before the Justice Underground shoot you dead."

    I take a moment to look around. Most of them are maintaining a disinterested front, but they're all paying attention. And I can see the undercurrent of fear that they can't completely ignore any more.

    "Syndicate, it's time to adapt or die. Your choice."

    I raise my right hand in a wave of goodbye, and turn away to head back into Shadowcrest. Now, the other part of handling the Syndicate. Talon inherited a lot of Owlman's old projects. Where's he gotten to?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  24. Twilight666

    Twilight666 Not too sore, are you?

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    .... I see what you did there...:p
     
  25. King of Frost

    King of Frost Wishing I was somewhere colder no doubt.

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    Yeah, with the government lowering itself to their level out of sheer hatred for them, leaving definitely seems to be the better option.

    It wasn't my first thought, but my second thought was this could be a trap he's laying for them or something, spread them all out and deal with them before the majority figure out what's going on where Wilson will have a significantly harder time touching them, sounds sensible enough to at least consider.

    Even if it's not a trap for them, this might be a good way to hurt Wilson's authority. Get the other countries pissed off that he made them all scatter out of the United States.
     
  26. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Not too sore, are you?

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    I don't.

    The smarter Syndicate members must realise this only delays the problem, right? Sooner or later the whole world won't tolerate their shit anymore. And then the mexican stand off resumes.
     
  27. Valint

    Valint I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Finally, Paul admits the truth the readers have known all along.
     
  28. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker, Rookie Proofreader

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    Classy fella.

    :p Nice one. I bet he enjoyed himself in there, too.

    In other words, you can only do so much to stave off senility.

    "Just a stranger, passin' through..."

    When in doubt, cheat.

    Diplomacy check success.

    Is he using the guy's heroic alternate's name here? If so, it should be capitalised.

    I don't think OL's riding small in the saddle, now.

    Double entendres are always fun.

    Speech, speech!

    Quite the combination...

    And even a cornered rat will bite.
    (Also: 'smooths'.)

    There he goes again, lumping himself in with them... I understand why, but...

    Yes, appeal to their greed. How appropriate. :D

    I want goddamn running Champagne!

    So that's what we're going to do: make money.

    Heh, baiting Egos and drawing out idea men all at once. Nicely done.

    And that's an ultimatum they can't ignore.

    Either planning to burn everything down, or run off to a tropical island and drink himself to death?

    Well, that speech will either clear house faster than a fire alarm, or set America ablaze...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  29. fictionfan

    fictionfan If you see a God on the road fuck it!

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    It's a big universe. Or if needed multiverse. They will find their nitch somewhere or die.
     
  30. BR549

    BR549 This is filth! FILTH!!

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    The catch is that one, they've seen the end state of the game they played but are stuck with the bed they made, and going elsewhere lets them avoid 'getting too big' there as Nega-Alan put it; and two, having them spread out over the world instead of concentrated in New England makes them individually easier to handle.

    Or, if needs be, pick off.
     
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