With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Vaermina]

I am not sure where you get this idea from as the Brakiri are shown as having some significant mystical elements to their culture and are not anything like pure secular atheists that will fall apart due to inability to deal with the spiritual aspects of telepathy. This is most evident in their mystery cult religion of Derchalia and the widespread Day of the Dead festival. Their current society has some deeply abusive elements but that is not an automatic death sentence or something that that is intrinsic to their species.. They seem perfectly set up for the "redefining" that is described as what species undertake in the Third Age as they can have some manner of social revolution that replaces their current corrupt gangster society with something better.

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Material as in wealth, not material as in spiritual vs material.

Also, if I remember my deep lore right, that "Spiritualism" is caused by a comet that has a connection to the Third Space aliens. In actuality the Brakiri are almost completely non-spiritual. (Also, the Brakiri are a heavily corporate society, not gangster.)

My understanding is that the Vree's only telepathic limitation is that it can only be used on their fellow Vree. How is this going to lead to some manner of civilization or population collapse and what do you mean they lack drive? The Vree are described as being very competitive and focused on advancement on an individual and group level so they do not seem to be suffering from some manner of malaise that will inevitably lead to their decline and end.

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No, the problem was that it made the Vree into racial sociopaths to the point they literally have no real driving force to them.

And without that driving force a race is functionally incapable of surviving the transition to a third age race.

 

[GhostKing 666]

They become energy? What does that mean and is becoming an energy life-form actually a good thing? Having a physical body is pretty nice as long as it's working properly.

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Here are the Vorlons.

Spoiler: Vorlon Physiology

Spoiler: The Core

The core of the Vorlon is the physical part of the Vorlon; essentially, it is the Vorlon's body though the term is of little relevance. When seen, it resembles a being of glowing light, with tentacles and surrounded by a fiery corona of energy. Before the Vorlons transcended base matter and became beings of energy, this core was an organic body(the product of millions of years of evolution and genetic engineering, but a recognizable body nonetheless).

The core is a crystalline structure, which contains the intrusion of the Vorlon's soul into realspace. The core is composed of four distinct sections. Firstly, there are the external manipulating tentacles, which are composed of a silicon-carbide gel, laced with a nanometer-scale gride of sensors and energy effectors. Each of these tentacles is strong enough to tear through the hull armor of a Sharlin-class warship, but is also precise and gentle enough to manipulate brain tissue without causing injury. For the majority of Vorlons, these tentacles – and the entire core body – are largely redundant, as few Vorlons have needed to manipulate matter directly for millions of years.

The outer shell of the core superficially resembles the pre-transcendence form of the Vorlons but is primarily a crystalline memory aleph with a storage capacity of 10100 bits, wrapped in an armored casing. The Vorlons no longer possess internal organs; they do not need to breathe or ingest any food or liquid. The shell's crystalline structure stores energy as well as information – the Vorlon shell is essentially battery powered, although a Vorlon could function without a recharge for thousands of years as long as it did not exert itself.

The third and most important section of the core is the brain, although this complex crystalline computer does not resemble an organic brain in the slightest. The Vorlon soul is incarnated within this brain to allow the Vorlon to think and reason; without a core brain, the soul is static and unchanging, being nothing more than a self-replicating pattern of information and energy.

The fourth section of the core consists of various implants and technological devices. Each Vorlon has his own suite of special abilities derived from the gadgets and devices contained within his suit or core.

Spoiler: The Soul

The Vorlon soul is not an abstract philosophical concept or superstition; it is a precisely engineered construction in the intersection between hyperspace and realspace. The personality engram of each Vorlon has been encoded in an information matrix and inscribed into the very structure of space-time. This is the Vorlon soul – eternal and unchanging. The soul can be destroyed – Ambassador Kosh, for example, was killed by the Shadows, who shattered his core body and then dissipated his soul by scrambling its information – but barring attacks of that sort, the personality of each Vorlon is indestructible. The soul cannot change, so the Vorlons cannot change or learn while in soul form. Therefore, the soul is incarnated– downloaded, essentially – into a core. This core can be contained in virtually any form – an encounter suit, a ship, a base and so on. Using their telepathic abilities, the Vorlon scan transfer soul fragments into the minds of other species. These fragments can then think and observe independently of the Vorlon core.

Spoiler: The Halo

The halo is the collection of devices, agent programs, ships and other techno-organic devices that are linked to an individual Vorlon. They may contain fragments of the Vorlon's soul, making them thinking, reasoning parts of the Vorlon whole, or they may simply be imprinted with the personality matrix, in which case they are not truly sentient but are 'sympathetic' to the commands of a matching core. Ambassador Kosh's ship, for example, was imprinted with his personality and was essentially a part of him. A Vorlon warship might contain a hundred cores, each of which has a copy of the same soul. The entire warship then would be a single Vorlon mind simultaneously incarnated into multiple bodies. Vorlons differentiate between types of object. Some Vorlon tools are just that, but more complex organic devices like ships or computers are as intelligent and sentient as any Human; they are a part of the Vorlon and so are included in the halo(so too are servants; to another Vorlon, Lyta would have been a part of Kosh).

Spoiler: The Song

The final part of a Vorlon is the song, the total consciousness of the Vorlon race and all its creations. The song can be considered a telepathic network linking the Vorlons together, but it is also inherent in the mind of every individual Vorlon. It is constantly evolving belief in order, a fractal philosophy of union and structure. The aspects are movements in the song; individual Vorlons are chords and notes.

Telepaths can dimly perceive the song; those truly touched by the Vorlons are never without it, for they are a part of the song. It was the establishment of the song that brought the Vorlons into their Fourth Age.

Several First One races went through a process called Transcendence where they converted themselves into immortal energy beings. Granted, not all of them did so, it's not a requirement or a limitation.

And as for Vaermina, lets go through your list.

The Abbai are on the edge of a population collapse due to the ongoing deterioration of their reproductive capabilities.

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... That's not the Abbai. You are thinking of the Hyach, the Abbai are fine. Nothing in the show or the rpgs suggests that the Abbai are going through a population crisis.

The Brakiri will undergo a complete cultural collapse the moment they get close to their third age as their entire existence is built around the material.

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First, they already are in their Third Age. Everyone is, the moment the Shadows and Vorlons agreed to leave the Younger Races alone and left for the Rim, every Younger Race entered their Third Age. The Second Age is when everyone was being manipulated by First Ones "for their own good" and Third Age means they don't have any First One race "looking out for them" and must stand on their own.

Second, so? None of the Younger Races are anywhere close to becoming a post-scarcity society like the First Ones. Everyone is millennia away from reaching that point so how their societies are currently structured don't really mean anything.

The Drazi have been winnowing their own population continually since the genocide of the purple Drazi.

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... Ok you really need to refamiliarize yourself with what actually happened.

The central governing body of the Freehold is a council of five Drazi known as the Shadak. Each member representing one of the five branches of the Drazi race. Every five cycles the Shadak is dissolved and the entire Drazi race divides into two camps, Green and Purple, the two sides then spend an entire cycle fighting one another. The winning side, the one that proves itself the strongest, gets to select the new Shadak from within its ranks and the two sides become one again.

The sides are chosen randomly by all the Drazi in a given area blindly drawing either a green or a purple sash from a great barrel. Leadership of a given population is also random as in each barrel, two of the sashes (one of each colour) bear the mark of leadership, represented by a golden star. Whichever Drazi happens to draw the leader cloth becomes the leader of the given faction and all local Drazi of that colour will unquestionably follow that leader.

Tradition holds that this practice goes back to a time when the five branches of Drazi were melded into a united race through a great war, though the true source lies in seeds long ago planted by the Shadows. The contest of strength is supposed to be non-lethal, and the attacks usually stop once the opponent is beaten into unconsciousness. However in 2259, the attacks turned lethal when the Greens on Zhabar started killing Purples. Once the news spread to the outer colonies and outpost, others followed suit. The situation even affected Babylon 5 and its population of almost four thousand Drazi. It was eventually defused when Earthforce Commander Susan Ivanova took the Green leader cloth, inadvertently becoming Green Leader and then ordered all the Green Drazi to the station quartermaster's office where they would all have their cloths dyed purple.

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That wasn't genocide or ethnic cleansing or anything, it was a political dispute with one side breaking the rules.

The Gaim got fucked hard by the Drakh plague because their first, and possibly only, attempt to create a progressive Queen died on Earth.

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Unfortunately, we don't know much about this as Crusade was left unfinished.

And the Vree's are one of the Vorlon's bigger failures when it comes to telepathic integration and as a result lack the drive to successfully bring them through a third age transition.

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Again, everyone is already in the Third Age after the conclusion of the last Shadow War. Whether they reach the Fourth Age and transcend, is impossible to say because that would be trying to predict something tens of thousands of years in the future.

As of the time right now though, the Vree are a highly advanced race(better than League average, though that was admittedly do to them getting very lucky and finding a Valen War era battlefield filled with 1000-year-old Minbari wrecks to study and reverse engineer early on in their time as an interstellar civilization) with a thriving economy so they are doing pretty damn well for themselves.

 

[Vaermina]

... That's not the Abbai. You are thinking of the Hyach, the Abbai are fine. Nothing in the show or the rpgs suggests that the Abbai are going through a population crisis.

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No, I'm talking about the Abbai, their maximum reproduction capacity is down to a single child every 3-4 years due to an inability of the male to produce viable sperm faster then that.

The League of Non-Aligned Worlds: Fact Book

The choice of which egg out of dozens to fertilise can be
a difficult one for the male Abbai, especially as a healthy
male only has one fertile seed at a time and takes upwards
of three to four years to make another. Most Abbai allow
fate to determine their choice, reaching blindly into the egg
mass and taking the first one that 'feels right'. Fertilisation
is almost always successful, with failure rates of less than
0.0002 percent in the event of two healthy parents and
clean water conditions.

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First, they already are in their Third Age. Everyone is, the moment the Shadows and Vorlons agreed to leave the Younger Races alone and left for the Rim, every Younger Race entered their Third Age. The Second Age is when everyone was being manipulated by First Ones "for their own good" and Third Age means they don't have any First One race "looking out for them" and must stand on their own.

Second, so? None of the Younger Races are anywhere close to becoming a post-scarcity society like the First Ones. Everyone is millennia away from reaching that point so how their societies are currently structured don't really mean anything.

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Sorry, meant Fourth not Third.

And yes, we are talking about long term doomed not short.

... Ok you really need to refamiliarize yourself with what actually happened.

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Actually I think you need to.

The League of Non-Aligned Worlds: Fact Book

Two Sides of One Race –
The Purple and the Green
Climate changes and geographical isolation eventually led
to the formation of two distinct bands of Drazi, both of
which developed separately but concurrently. The more
temperate and fertile northern hemisphere became more
prosperous; its tribes growing faster than the more arid
south. While the numbers between these groups were
equivalent to begin with, the north became twice as
populous before its explorers travelled far enough below
Zhabar's equator to discover the tribes of the south.

Drazi being Drazi, this initial discovery was not a peaceful
one. Because the southern tribes had to fight harder to
survive, they had become very territorial. There was
precious little hunting to sustain their numbers, much
less provide for outsiders. The first bands of exploring
northern Drazi were driven off at spear and knife point.
Returning explorers were killed and their bodies used to
mark macabre boundary lines in the hopes of preventing
further sojourns.

These fences of the dead had the opposite effect on the
tribes of the north. Declaring war, thousands of green
scaled Drazi moved across the equator in a massive wave.
They clashed with brood-bands of southern Drazi, their
scales tinged with purple because of the scorching sun
they had been exposed to for so long. These battles lasted
decades, with more northern Drazi moving south to
reinforce their holy crusade against the 'barbarians' of the
desert lands. This in turn unified the disparate southern
Drazi, and what could not be accomplished for the sake
of peace centuries before hand was achieved in part due to
constant war.

The Drazi were now two massive brood-tribes, the colour
of their scales the only real difference between them. For
many years, war raged along the equator of Zhabar, neither
side gaining an advantage for long enough to make a
difference. Conflict became commonplace, with bloody
battles between the Purple and the Green a daily event.
Whenever one side would press too far into the territory of
the other, more tribes would rally to the losing side's cause
and the tide would turn back and forth.

Eventually, it was invention born of desperation that ended
the stalemate. The Green Drazi discovered how to smelt
steel, a metal hard enough to penetrate the scales of their
hated rivals and strong enough not to break when wielded
by their powerful warriors. This discovery proved to be
more than the Purple Drazi could withstand and on every
battlefield, they fell before the Green's terrible new weapons.
The Green Drazi, driven by the rush of victory and a blood
rage born from decades of hostility, became genocidal and
before their vision cleared, they had eradicated the Purple
Drazi from the face of Zhabar.

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Unfortunately, we don't know much about this as Crusade was left unfinished.

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You want the Lurkers Guide to the Gaim.

 

[Mr Zoat]

After some time searching, I cannot find what you are referencing. Please enlighten me.

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFD-MxelDlo

May contain badly drawn naked catgirls having badly drawn sex with badly drawn cavemen.

 

[GhostKing 666]

No, I'm talking about the Abbai, their maximum reproduction capacity is down to a single child every 3-4 years due to an inability of the male to produce viable sperm faster then that.

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That's not a population collapse brought about by a deterioration of their reproductive capacity, that's just their normal reproductive cycle. As long as each couple have two or more kids, then their population numbers will remain stable or even climb.

Sorry, meant Fourth not Third.

And yes, we are talking about long term doomed not short.

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In which case you are pulling shit out of your ass because it's impossible to determine anything about that. It took Humans and the Minbari One. Million. Years in order to reach that point so making any statement is absurd. Especially going "well they are a materialistic society so naturally they won't be able to make it"... there's a First One race that's obsessed with gambling of all things, so saying the Brakiri and Vree are inherently doomed is nonsense.

Actually I think you need to.

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Yes, and not only did that happen a very long time ago, unlike the Hyach it didn't screw the Drazi over long term. The Drazi population now is far greater than it was back when they first figured out how to forge steel weapons, I don't know why you think they make a point to habitually kill each other any more than can be expected for a race as aggressive and prone to fighting as the Drazi.

You want the Lurkers Guide to the Gaim.

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I just read it... Dude, all it says is that one High Queen got infected, ended up driving her entire bloodline nuts, forcing the remaining five High Queens to make a new High Queen(plus bloodline) before purging the infected bloodline out of fear it could infect their own bloodlines. A big blow yes because that's a full sixth of their species, but not the end of the Gaim.

 

[The Chosen One]

Noel Mann.

No Man.

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Have we considered the possibility that Noel Mann is some kind of island?