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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. MrCogmor

    MrCogmor Getting some practice in, huh?

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    Mr Hamil and most transgender individuals are not delusional. If a transman says "I am a man" they do not mean that they have male genitalia just as saying that Red Tornado is a robot man does not necessarily imply that Red Tornado has male genitalia. The universe feels no obligation to neatly conform itself to human invented typologies so you get things like platypuses, penguins, a variety of hairless bipeds, individuals that have characteristics of both sexes and the distinction between clinical death and brain death. The meaning of specific words in natural language is fuzzy, changes over time and is dependent on context. You can argue about definitions and word usage but since all words are ultimately made up such arguments need to be done on the basis of practicality and how things will be interpreted by the audience. There should be a reason why you want to use words in a particular way or engage in pedantry.
     
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  2. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

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    Did you see - they perms-suspended Zoat’s account on sv for your final post about transsexuals vs trans people.
     
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  3. Sceptic

    Sceptic Critical Irrationalist

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    "Because someone is being wrong on the internet" isn't reason enough?!?
     
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  4. Biigoh

    Biigoh Moderator

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    Please be mindful of rule 8. No discussion of current day politics.
     
  5. King of Frost

    King of Frost Wishing I was somewhere colder no doubt.

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    I think I may see a bit of a flaw in Zoat's reasoning for burning his bridges with his last SV post and coming here. The rules say that current politics is against the rules. What got Zoat suspended from SV is very much current politics. It all depends on if it means the actual current political system and the people within, or hot button issues like what got Zoat banned that I'm not going to say.

    Anyway, his first jump from SB to SV was for a completely bullshit reason that the mods even lied a bit about when defending themselves, this jump from SV to here was quite a bit more of a gray area, so then I can only conclude that if Zoat were to be banned from QQ it would be for something that's actually a pretty huge deal.
     
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  6. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    In point of fact, Red Tornado's 'John Smith' body does possess a reasonable facsimile of human male genitals.
     
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  7. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat The Dawn Will Cum

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    Before or after Paul rebuilt him, stronger, better, harder than before?
     
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  8. Grek

    Grek aaaaaaaaaaaa

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    If Mr Hamill is a she, how come Red Tornado and Firebrand and Siskin and Nabu and all the other robots and golems in this fic aren't all 'it's?
     
  9. Sceptic

    Sceptic Critical Irrationalist

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    Because they're built with some semblance of gender?

    I'm guessing there's a lot of mad scientists out there compensating for something...
     
  10. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat The Dawn Will Cum

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    Firebrand and Tornado both have playstations.
     
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  11. bobsimmo

    bobsimmo Simmr001 on SV/SB

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    Just to clarify Poison Pill is term i picked up from my time in MMO's to describe leaving somewhere in a dickish manner.

    should have gone with that.

    also, and i don't think this was infractionable but here we go, your definition kind of creates the scenario where breast cancer survivors are potentially not women.
     
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  12. AidanMorgan

    AidanMorgan Only Mostly Mad

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    I can't remember Nabu being referred to with anything but searing hatred, Androids and gynoids do actually have sex (Android comes from Andros, which means male, Gynoid from Gynos for female. They're made in those configurations.) Siskin's spirit pre-Terror Thing assimilation appeared like he did in life, iirc.
     
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  13. Grek

    Grek aaaaaaaaaaaa

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    Nabu is a helmet.
     
  14. CrossyCross

    CrossyCross LADY OF LOVE

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    Also, the very human habit of anthropormism . Why ships, cars, weapons, even tools and instruments get referred to by certain people/languages with a gender or referred to as if they're a living thing.

    "She's a beauty ain't she?" Is a well known line in such cases.

    Also he/she gives the feeling of being PEOPLE more than it. It's why that planet-lantern is referred to as 'he' rather than it, even though planets have no gender. Stuff like that.
     
  15. Misiok

    Misiok Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    Seems there is. Anyone who wants a story only thread can press on the top right side of the thread "Reader mode" to get the updates only without any other postings?

    Can't link an image for whatever reason but oh well.
     
  16. Sceptic

    Sceptic Critical Irrationalist

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    There you go, then. Nabu is a helmet, and the person wearing him is gets the shaft. How is that not masculine?
     
  17. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat The Dawn Will Cum

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    Anthropomorphism, rather than animism. The latter is a religion type.
     
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  18. Queshire

    Queshire Not too sore, are you?

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    I'm a fan of the webcomic Skin Horse where they have a character whose brain was transferred to a helicopter and he ended up identifying with that to the point that after being put back into a human body he's feeling dysphoria. For a moment I thought Zoat was talking about, but it doesn't fit. It's done respectfully. Most attack helicopter memes are not.
     
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  19. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

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    In that case, both arguments should be valid and at most Zoat should have been shamed by a small portion of readers - those 10 or so (at most from what it seemed) who cared about his opinion on the issue, not suspended. Saying that this is the meaning of the word as defined by trans people is different from saying that this is the meaning of the phrase as defined by the actual majority of people. Being as people have pointed out WOKE enough to use proper vocabulary that changes every few years should not be a requirement to be a good writer. While the attack helicopter thing might have gone a bit far - especially if it’s a meme, we shouldn’t necessitate the use of correct vocabulary - I mean really, since when is transsexual considered an impolite thing to call someone instead of just the semi-scientific term? Likewise remember that Zoat is an atheist and doesn’t believe in a soul - therefore the soul doesn’t have a gender as far as he is concerned and the only gender that can possibly scientifically matter is the physical, even if someone is uncomfortable with it and wants to be something else.
     
  20. CrossyCross

    CrossyCross LADY OF LOVE

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    Whoops. My mistake.
     
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  21. CTrees

    CTrees Chasing the ring

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    Also in one or both timelines (it has been awhile), OL/Grayven campaigned hard enough for AI rights that, in the US, they are legally "people." So "it" may not be correct, regardless, when the various examples all present one way or the other (and have been referred to accordingly).
     
    Obliviated fan likes this.
  22. GoodAntagonist

    GoodAntagonist Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    @Zoat , followed your story here because i really like it and want to know how it progresses. (Does the @-plus-name even work here)

    That said, I know myself well enough that i’ll soon get curious enough to look what other stories there are around here and i’m far from sure if i’ll thank you for that.;)

    As for the reason of your move;....
    Frankly i’m quite baffled, the whole gender-issue is something that completely went by me until now.
    It simply didn’t affect me or my friends. (Still doesn’t really)

    I had to google why people use attack-helicopter in conjunction with that discussion. I’m still baffled after the google-spree, perhaps even more so now.

    But that’s neither here nor there.
    I’m just happy the story goes on.
     
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  23. thegamma

    thegamma Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    I have a question orange lantern considers Mr.Harris a woman because he currently has a female body despite previously being a man and still considers himself as such yet orange lantern thinks of himself as 30 year old man when he has the body of a seventeen year old isn't that hypocritical?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  24. 9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    So your experience has people use the attack helicopter to be jerks to trans people more than people use the FSM to be jerks to Christians, fine. Mine is the opposite.

    The point is that the two rhetorical devices are very much parallel. They take someone's sincerely held belief, and apply the same principle to something absurd (and NOT sincerely held) to confront the form of the argument.

    Do you want me to respect your faith-based belief in the Biblical God? Fine, then you have to respect my faith-based belief in a creature made of spaghetti.

    Do you want me to respect your self-identification as a woman? Fine, then you have to respect my self-identification as a non-human vehicle.

    I don't have a personal problem with using either of these devices, but my point is that anyone who wants to ban one and sees no problem with the other, is clearly not being ideologically neutral. It's the typical double standard.
     
  25. Biigoh

    Biigoh Moderator

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  26. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    That sounds like the one. I can't find links to the particular bits I remember reading, though.

    I suppose that the point of differentiation is that while many people might say that identifying as another sex is wrong because identifying as a helicopter is wrong, I think that identifying as a helicopter is every bit as valid as identifying as another sex. Ideally, a person could be whatever they want to be. The fact that we don't have the technology for some of the things people want to be doesn't have any relation to the validity of that desire.

    As they said in Life of Brian, you can have a right to do a thing which is physically impossible for you to do.

    On a slightly more Young Justice note, I thought that Victor Stone's transformation was much better here that in the Justice League animated film. And now you all know what those ploongs sounded like!
     
  27. Belenus

    Belenus Not too sore, are you?

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    Just want to say that I'm very happy to see this here.
     
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  28. 9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    Most young adults identifying as gender fluid or transgender today, are not actially suffering from gender dysphoria. They are responding to a trend.

    The unwillingness of many to distinguish between those actually suffering from a brain-body mismatch (who need our support and care), and people who just want to put others off by messing around with their wardrobes and pronouns, is a big part of the problem.

    The idea that even mentioning this is "hateful" and "transphobic" is a bigger part of the problem.
     
  29. Sceptic

    Sceptic Critical Irrationalist

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    I'm reasonably sure that only happened on the paragon side, and then bit him on the arse when it turned out to not exclude demons.
     
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  30. Queshire

    Queshire Not too sore, are you?

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    Sure, and the swastika is a buddhist holy symbol rotated 45 degrees.

    Honestly in a transhumanist space future I'd love to try out what being a space ship would be like. I do agree with you. I really do, but that still doesn't mean that it wasn't a bad idea.
     
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