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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Darko

    Darko I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Zatara could still have stopped being a Nabu hatstand if OL had talked to Orin and asked him to recommend some mages who could serve as hosts to Nabu.
     
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  2. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Want to guess how many top-tier Atlantean mages would be remotely interested in that sort of pact?
     
  3. Galler

    Galler Getting sticky.

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    You have it the wrong way round, Zatara couldn't do anything. Its Nabu who could have stopped possessing Zatara. By the point that OL and every one involved in Team Nabu were ready to discuss there plans with the League they were all too angry. Enough so that they were seeing everything to do with Nabu in its worst light.
     
  4. Stsword

    Stsword I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Actually Circe claimed her father was Hyperion in the comics, so it seems the ancient Greeks confused their solar deities there.

    So she's related by marriage to Lilith Clay, who is the daughter of Hyperion's wife.
     
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  5. TheEyes

    TheEyes Versed in the lewd.

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    I can't imagine that the actual governance structure of the Team is that informal. After all, Wayne is one of the founders; if nothing else, he'd want to have an official structure so he could keep some of the looser cannons, like Robin and OL, in line.
    Both of these are disingenuous arguments. OL didn't talk to the League about Nabu because he had reason to believe that the mind controlling alien artifact had compromised the League. Is he now thinking that the Jewish Defamation League has mind controlled the Justice League?

    As for Vega, is that what OL took away from the incident? That anyone can do anything they want, and it's the people who might object whose responsibility it is to keep him in line? That's basically Vandal Savage morality, and a big departure from the guy who generally wanted to be helpful and non-threatening.
     
  6. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Not too sore, are you?

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    He also knew that the Justice League had a very different view of Nabu than him due to the legacy Kent Nelson and them being mostly unaware of there being much of difference between Doctor Fate with Nabu more or less in charge and with out. So even if none of the League members were compromised there was a good chance they would compromise his effort to free Zatara by talking about it to the wrong person.
     
  7. Steelplaza

    Steelplaza Custom Title

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    I have to disagree, it seems very in line with the League's own vague governance.

    The Team collectively, and Kaldur as their leader invested with authority by the members, have a lot of independence from the League. They certainly have the authority to invite someone to work with them on a temporary basis. OL sold Kaldur on his "try to reform the Nazi" plan and so they're going forward with it.

    If the situation were reversed and someone on the League, say Captain Marvel, wanted to have Overgirl work with the League in an attempt to reform her then it would be appropriate and necessary for Marvel to consult the other League members about what he wanted to do and get their concurrence. But would Captain Marvel be expected to get Kaldur's permission? Of course not.

    So why is it different with the Team? No, let me go ahead and answer that. It's different because the Team is made up of children who are under the authority of adults and need to get adult permission before they try something like this, right? Except the Team doesn't really act like that when it comes to other major decisions and risks.
     
  8. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Been said, but yes.

    As someone who has a load of Superman comics, he avoids a lot more attacks then pop culture or the cartoons would suggest to you. Just like Rouge or Wolverine back in the old 90's cartoon. Superman gets hit in the shows more often than anyone because he's the one character who can take all the beating, and the audience wont question it when he gets up unharmed.

    So, I have a, issue where there is a little side story where some teenage punk gets Strength and Durability powers. So of course, he knocks over a bank. Hurts a load of guards and police trying to get out.

    Superman shows up and, after talking him down fails, gets a sucker punch followed by a combination beat down and a car smashed on him.

    But wait? How could Clark NOT dodge that punch as the kid has already been shown to lack speed powers?

    Well, Superman gets up without a scratch, kinda rubbing his jaw. The kid gloats, throws another punch, only for Clark to catch it. A little crackling crunch and Clark says something like "...About a 4." The kid throws another punch that Clark braces for, and almost breaks his other hand. Then Clark levels him.

    Clark literally let him hit him the first time just to see where he fell in the Strength range. Then he knew, and controlled his own strength to overpower, but not just kill, the kid.

    Furthermore, when Superman just stands there and lets someone unload on him, particularly when he was just getting established, he did it to literally say "Look, you can't hurt me. Please just quit now."

    And then for the public that stood there and saw a guy put his hands on his hips while someone unloaded a M-60 into his chest, before walking through a barrage of anti-tank rifle fire. His actions were to say "Look, they can't hurt me. Everything is going to be alright. Have hope, everything be fine."

    Which is why one of his newest expies literally has the catchphrase "I am here." With the understanding being "Everything will be fine."

    He's not an idiot. He's proving a point. Or he is putting himself in between someone squishier.

    I have another book where Clark bobs and weaves under Darkside's punches like Mike Tyson (Look it up) before ripping into his body with perfect hooks, and sending him flying with a (really well drawn) uppercut.



    OL does what OL wants to do. He has since page one.

    For a while, he worked within confines, but lets face it yeah? OL is a rules lawyer. Yes, but no, because this, and then that.

    See all the legal shields he made sure where in place before hitting Nabu.

    OL does what OL wants. One way, or another. Probably has something to do with all that Orange balance, Ophidian's heart soul stuff.

    It is interesting that he'll extend a hand to the Nazi, because she "never had a choice" while Nabu got a mild olive branch and then brain-deaded. I think it's probably safe to say that Nabu did perform more of a net good then Overgirl ever has, but OL had already made up his mind.

    I guess literal goose stepping Nazi is above what he calls a body snatching Lich.

    I suppose it comes down to choice. She was born a Nazi, he chose to become a body wearing Helmut.
     
  9. Ardy

    Ardy Not too sore, are you?

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    Well that and she's assaulted fewer innocent people than Nabu did in her time on Earth-16. Nabu essentially kidnapped/enslaved Zatanna and Mr. Zatara, Overgirl hasn't hit a single person in anger.
     
  10. Threadmarks: Jungle Gym (part 3)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    17th March
    18:11 GMT -6

    Harleen regards me dispassionately for a moment, then turns back to the barkeep.

    "Next one's a double."

    "So-."

    "Bh!"

    Keeping her attention on the barkeep as he pours her drink, she raises her left hand towards me.

    Alright then.

    I wait patiently as the barkeep finishes pouring and puts the glass down in front of Harleen. She picks it up with her right hand and raises it to her lips. And drinks.

    "Aren't y-?"

    "Bh!"

    And down the whiskey goes. She then puts the glass back down on the bar, but… Her hand hasn't gone down yet. So I keep waiting.

    Harleen closes her eyes, breathes in and then holds it. One, two, three and out slowly.

    Then she lowers her left hand and turns towards me.

    "Okay."

    "Okay."

    "So on Earth 10, the Nahzis rule the woruld."

    "Various far right groups rule the world, with the German National Socialists being paramount amongst them. Directly ruling a world using a relatively small population base is actually quite difficult."

    Not that has stopped all sorts of people from trying. Hah, thought the person from Britain.

    "So everyone's a Nahzi, they're just ain't all Joiman."

    "There's a range of political opinion, but ethnocentrism is a fairly common thread."

    "Okay. Okay. So… Do I need t'go in hidin'?"

    "I.. wouldn't think so?"

    "You do know I'm Jewish, don't yah?"

    I frown. "Should you be drinking on a Friday evening?"

    "Ah, yeyah? Why-?" She shakes her head. "I ain't practisin', but I don' think Nazis care 'bowd that."

    "You know those ridiculously racist Second World War era caricatures of Jews? With the hook nose and-." She nods. "That's what she thinks Jews literally look like. So you wouldn't need to hide even if she wasn't being overseen by a Justice League member or affiliate twenty-four seven."

    "Rilly? Did the Nazis kill awll the smawt people too?"

    "No, but they needed to maintain faith in their ideals, so they didn't ease up on the propaganda after their extermination campaign ended. 'This is what our enemies looked like, accept it, don't question it'. Which is why I came to-."

    "To me, because you think I know how to convince her nat to be a Nahzi."

    "She's not doing badly. Considering. She's managed civil conversations with homosexuals and black people. She's upset but not irrational about the realisation that her mother-figure is probably homosexual as well, and doesn't plan on informing her country's authorities. But she's-."

    "She's makin' exceptions and feelin' weird abowd it, not reassessin' her fundamental worldview."

    I nod.

    "Which is obviously a problem, because she might be able to get away with the-. N-word, she-."

    "Which n-word'?"

    "The.. five letter one?" She nods. "Because she's foreign and it hasn't acquired the derogatory association in some countries that it has in America, but she also calls some people 'sub-human'."

    "Yeyeah."

    "So any advice you've got on how to handle her would be much appreciated."

    "It ain't rilly my field. She ain't crazy. She ain't even a criminal." A tiny frown and a tiny shudder. "She thinks she ain't a criminal. I know you know bowd how maladjusted mosta the people in Belle Reve are."

    "Yes."

    "An' she ain't."

    "I know." I look away for a moment. "'Individuals aren’t naturally paid-up members of the human race, except biologically. They need to be bounced around by the Brownian motion of society, which is a mechanism by which human beings constantly remind one another that they are... Well... Human beings.'"

    "That a quote?"

    "Terry Pratchett. As far as I can tell he was never born here."

    "Clevah." She picks up her glass and taps the edge of the base against the surface of the bar a couple of times. "She's used tah fittin' in with awal the other Nahzis. If she ain't deliberately tryin' to keep to herself, she'll pro'bly come around gradually without rilly meanin' to."

    I nod slowly. "Because she doesn't see herself as part of a criminal minority, so she hasn't developed the psychic defences they need to maintain their egos when they resist the herd."

    "'Herd', huh?"

    "Animals form herds for sound evolutionary reasons. They learn how to behave from all of the other animals around them. I didn't mean it as an insult. And in this case it should be helpful."

    "Unless she internalises bein' an outsidah."

    "So I've got to persuade a group of superheroes to be nice to a self-identifying National Socialist. I mean I… Think they understand what I'm trying to do, but if she acts out in front of a camera it's going to massively undermine Justice League credibility."

    "And you ain't got no one you can share Overgirl-babysittin' duty with."

    "No, Kid Flash has a sort of horrified fascination with her. In the short term… On the practical side, I'm more worried about her acting on differences in rules of engagement. Policing works more or less the same on her Earth, but 'threats to the state' are met by lethal force by default."

    "And if a threat comes from someone she thinks is 'subhuman', she ain't gunna hold back none."

    "Not… Reliably."

    "Okay, well, there's a few things you could do…"
     
  11. Razorfloss

    Razorfloss Getting sticky.

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    Harley isn't drunk enough to deal with this yet
     
  12. Idkusername

    Idkusername Know what you're doing yet?

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    Can any layman be considered ‘drunk enough’ to deal with this kind of shit? Especially since we’re talking about OL’s own unique flavour (of shit - that part’s important).
     
  13. Flux Casey

    Flux Casey The Colonel

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    Oh, god. The Bawsten is hard to read.
     
  14. thebishop8

    thebishop8 Umm, ackchyually...

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    The n-word with the hard "r" is six letters, if that's the one you mean.
     
  15. Darko

    Darko I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    OL is also extremely biased against those who hurt his friends. Nabu hurt Zatanna so he had to go.
     
  16. Queshire

    Queshire Not too sore, are you?

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    No one is drunk enough to deal with this yet.
     
  17. Ardy

    Ardy Not too sore, are you?

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    Nah, this one ends with an o
     
  18. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

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    I think he means Nigga/Negro, not Nigger.

    Can we please not be children about this.
     
  19. Zig

    Zig Getting sticky.

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    It's encouraged
     
  20. King of Frost

    King of Frost Wishing I was somewhere colder no doubt.

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    Holy shit this entire storyline is making me extremely uncomfortable, and the story itself is extremely interesting.

    Good job if that's what you were going for Mr Zoat.
     
  21. Darko

    Darko I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Is this episode going to be about Overgirl further adapting to this new earth?
     
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  22. Aeess

    Aeess Not too sore, are you?

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    She was speaking German, so the word she likely used was 'Neger' which basically means the same thing, but has 5 letters.
     
  23. Massgamer

    Massgamer Know what you're doing yet?

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    And that is a damned shame.

    Would it be cool of OL to make copies of work and send them out freely under his name? Can he use ring to perfectly recall books and put them to paper?
     
  24. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Not primarily, but any episode with her in it will at least touch on that subject.
    Only if he memorised them before getting his ring, which he didn't.
     
  25. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I had foolishly hoped we had gotten away from "Oh the poor nazi"

    Still, this, heading in before Grayven's pony princess adventure?

    Slick move Zoat.
     
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  26. IndigoAbyss

    IndigoAbyss Isaac of the Abyss

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    You seem to not like Overgirl much.
     
  27. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    And yet again I'm missing the 'insightful' response.
     
  28. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    "I don't have pet peeves. I have major, psychotic fucking hatreds." -George Carlin.
     
  29. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker, Rookie Proofreader

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    As Razorfloss said, Harley's gonna need to be a lot drunker to deal with OL's shit this night.

    Let the lady brace herself for your questions, OL, she'll need it.

    Wow, she is desperately in need of some numbing, isn't she?

    How polite, OL. Give her a moment.

    Now she's ready for this shit.

    And as usual, she's mangling the English language. I know the phonetic accent is your style, but ouch...

    Self-deprecating humour. How British of you, you non-tea-drinker.

    A nice way of putting it...

    Gee, the Jersey Yiddish sure didn't give it away at all.:V

    I don't think Overgirl's got any followers locally. Not ones she'd tolerate, anyway. I can just imagine her cleaning up the global neo-nazi populations. Hopefully non-lethally.

    Well, they did tend to be anti-intellectual...

    Not in person, obviously.

    Which is very human of her. Hypocrisy is in our nature, after all...

    Indeed. Not even LA gangbangers would like her saying it.

    Admittedly, for her it's just a statement of something's nature, like calling the sky blue or pointing out a dog... It's just the baggage that word and those like it come with given her beliefs that bothers everyone else...

    For some of them, that's an understatement...

    Well, I'm sure she's well-adjusted for her home universe. It's here where she's abnormal.

    And the YJ Universe is a poorer place for it.

    That's... An unusual way to look at it, OL.

    She presumably has the human instinct to fit in with an in-group, much as OL did when he first arrived. That's a big lever to moderate her tendencies...

    Never mind the Tabloids, the regular press is going to go postal. Just imagine the local Fox News equivalent's reaction. I picture lots of frothy-mouthed screaming at the camera. Actual words optional.

    Not surprising. If the superheroes are closer to a state military arm, It's not unlikely that major threats are treated mercilessly.

    Which we don't get to hear about, no doubt. It's the Unspoken Plan Guarantee in action...

    Well, Overgirl's presence continues to weigh down the story like the gravity of a neutronium mass... I suspect by the time Grayven's Grand Pony Adventure gallops along, it'll feel like a palate cleanser. Hopefully, the League and Team can keep her from making any mistakes we'll all regret... <Fingers crossed.>
     
  30. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

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    I completely disagree with you and consider you highly irrational, but you get a like for the George quote. That guy was my spirit animal.
     
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