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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. dreaddragonking

    dreaddragonking Getting out there.

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    huh, points to this Dawn Warrior guy, his plan seems pretty solid considering his resource base
     
  2. DbDRAKE

    DbDRAKE Possibly some sort of Actual Dragon?

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    People seem to think that SI won't be right there with Dawn Warrior and co.

    He likes people taking proactive yet reasonable actions to better themselves, he wants mass acceptance of post human enhancement, he was talking about the Indian genocide earlier, and he has never had much sympathy for people who have fucked others systematically and systemically for so long they just kinda think that's the way it is.

    This should be pushing all his "yay! but seriosly, don't go murder crazy or I will be VERY upset" buttons.
     
  3. Yog

    Yog Know what you're doing yet?

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    I am fairly sure that Diana of Themyscira is publicly known to be Wonder Woman of Justice League, with her superhero activity part of her general "ambassador to the Man's World" duties she maintains through the embassy.
     
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  4. Threadmarks: Jungle Gym (part 12)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    18th March
    15:09 GMT -3


    "Would you pardon us for a moment, please?"

    Dawn Warrior hesitates at the door, then shrugs.

    "Sure. Take me a couple hours to get home without you flying me."

    I nod, smile, then make eye contact with my colleagues. "Team meeting."

    Beatriz, Beryl and Raquel approach. Dr Munro takes a step towards me as well, then reconsiders and heads over to talk to Dawn Warrior. Once they're within convenient confab distance I stick an orange shield around us and make it as opaque as I can.

    Raquel exhales heavily. "So. That happened."

    I nod. "It does simplify things quite a lot."

    "Ah. How?"

    Beryl looks at me curiously, but nods. "Because if enough people get involved, it's not exactly a crime anymore."

    "Pr-etty sure it is."

    "No, it's a political protest. And since we're crime fighters and it's not our job to preserve the integrity of Brazil's borders, our job is completed once we confirm that the attack on the logging site was done as part of that."

    "Seriously?"

    "I'm not saying we should just leave, but technically… Yeah. Brazil as a country is descended from the Portuguese colony which conquered the area. These people are descendants of the people who were here first. If they choose not to recognise Brazil's claim to their land… That's not exactly a crime."

    Even if we're looking at a rerun of Hugo Danner's original putsch attempt, with Sons and Daughters of Dawn who aren't vulnerable to disease and are at least ten times more numerous than their grandparents' generation. Against a Brazilian military which hasn't improved by anything like the same degree.

    "It's not a crime because the thing at issue is who has the authority to make things a crime within a given territory. Civil wars are only a crime if you lose."

    Raquel nods. "Most a' the guys who lost the American Civil War got let off. An' I get where you're comin' from. Don’t think Mister 'Fair Play' Terrific woulda tried enforcin' segregation back in the sixties. Or Indian Reservations."

    I nod. "As I told Kaldur when he asked me what I'd do if Atlantis had a civil war… Unless one side commits an atrocity, it isn't our job to back one side or another."

    Beatriz doesn't look entirely sanguine about that statement.

    "So you don't care about Brazil having a civil war."

    "It's not that I don't care, it's just… There are, what, eight..?"

    I look at Beryl.

    "Does Rhelasia count?"

    "Not if there hasn't been any shelling this week."

    "Twelve."

    "Twelve ongoing insurgencies or flat out civil wars in the world right now. And I'd rather there wasn't, but stopping them isn't my job. And unless the Security Council rewrites the Justice League's charter, it's not their job either. Because..?" I raise my eyebrows.

    Beryl shrugs. "No one really wants powerful superheroes deciding that they can tell governments they're not allowed to have wars anymore." Raquel opens her mouth. "Except all of the people living wherever the war is happening. And probably most of the people doing the fighting."

    "So we just go talk to them, and if they want to start a war we just tell them that's fine?"

    "No, we try and persuade them not to, and we try to persuade the Brazilian government to offer a compromise, but we aren't obliged to help either side until the other one starts committing war crimes. And Dawn Warrior seemed pretty certain they weren't planning on going beyond property damage, at least to start with."

    Beatriz gives her head a small shake. "And then what happens?"

    "A few hundred Danner enhanciles can smash anything Brazil can throw at them that isn't a jet aircraft, but they can't hold territory and probably can't run a government. I doubt that they're going to try conquering the rest of the country. They're getting support from other tribes so they won't be exiling them, and there aren't all that many other people in the jungle. If the Brazilian army attacks them, risk to civilians is minimal. The risk to civilians would come if they attacked a Brazilian city, and then… What are they attacking? Government buildings? Military bases? They're relying on superstrength, not guns. They're not where the collateral damage will be coming from. Though, in the spirit of the Spanish Civil War, if anyone here wants to back either side..?"

    Raquel shakes her head. Beryl shrugs.

    "How, exactly?"

    I raise my eyebrows at Beatriz.

    "You're a Brazilian citizen, so you have a personal stake in this that we don't. So if you've got a plan on how to stop-."

    "I can't stop a hundred Children of Dawn!" She exhales sharply, then shakes her head. "Let's just go and see what they want."

    "Good show. Orange Lantern to…" I should really send a message to Garth, but if he's in the middle of a ritual… "Overgirl."

    "Overgirl here."

    "We're going to see Dawn Warrior's tribe. We're not expecting anyone to attack your location. Will keep you updated."

    "Understood."

    I dismiss the barrier and head towards-

    "…or nine? I don't get back often, and we're pretty spread out…"

    Dawn Warrior shrugs, then turns to us.

    "You ready to go?"

    "Yes, all ready." I create a map construct. "Where are we heading?"

    He points… That's a long way from anywhere.

    "I can't guarantee that no one will be able to track me when I take us there."

    "And do what?"

    "Airstrike?"

    "Can you keep watch?"

    "While we're there, yes. But it's extremely unlikely that we'll provide direct assistance."

    He shrugs. "When we move, we all move. Don't worry."

    "Alright then." I tag everyone with a filament. "Transition in two, one."
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  5. Yog

    Yog Know what you're doing yet?

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    Wait, what? I thought Luthor and OL resolved Rhelasia's crisis and the country was well on the path to reunification in a generation.
     
  6. Shotiegun11

    Shotiegun11 Making the rounds.

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    No, both leaders at the conference said they would not reunite. They would demilitarize the borders.
     
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  7. Lucidum

    Lucidum Verifiably Bored

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    I'm assuming you meant 'asked' there. Otherwise, Kaldur is able to do some pretty weird stuff that I wasn't aware of.

    Overall a pretty interesting chapter, I don't think I've ever put too much thought into how the Justice League deals with Civil Wars and Political Protests.
     
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  8. Ganurath

    Ganurath Apologizes For Nothing

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    In the true tradition of comic book superheroes, they prevented the problem from getting worse. Remember, Luthor sells weapons to both sides.
     
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  9. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Not too sore, are you?

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    Ah yes. Do you have the moral obligation to stop people from making what are mistakes from your point of view or the moral obligation to allow them their own opinion?

    Of course the question becomes mute when one person can reasonably claim that they know the future or at least know it better than the parties in question, like a precognitive or a super intelligence.

    The Gaurdians have a claim to that. Could OL interfere in a war by rejecting his League membership and only act in his OL Corps persona?
     
  10. Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    Say what now OL? Like if you want to bail because its become a political conflict of interest just say 'well its a civil war and the Charter says we're not supposed to get involved in those' the 'well its not really a crime thing'... doesn't work
    That seems very low
     
  11. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker, Rookie Proofreader

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    Superhuman speed and near-inexhaustible stamina for the win. Bet he's popular with the ladies for that last part.

    Yes, yes it did. Now, how is it going to change things, I wonder.

    It's not quite a war, though. A protest?

    If anyone takes it further, well...

    Not the first native population to want to stand against colonists... But they do stand a better chance of success than previous ones.

    Oof. Though that does make me wonder how close the modern Mister Terrific is to starting his hero career, if he even does. I suspect Raquel would have words for him too.

    Now, now, that's not what he meant... Okay, it probably was, but...

    I'm sure things are still quiet over there.

    Well, yes. And superheroes will do their best to keep them safe. They just can't do it politically...

    Generally, whichever side is commiting war crimes usually ends up being the wrong one. No-one's hands are clean, though... I suspect the cartels would push for 'pacifying the natives' but it would be a bit hard when said natives can flip tanks and peel armour plates with their bare hands.

    Admittedly, they can make quite the mess of anything, whatever they target...

    Do you particularly like your government, Bea?

    Diplomacy it is! Jolly good.

    "If someone does attack, please try not to damage anything or anyone too badly."

    Ah, Arnold getting a primer on the tribes his father indirectly empowered...

    Well, if it wasn't, they'd probably have gotten into trouble sooner.

    Would the military even be watching this?


    Welp, Time to try and talk the super-folks down. Hopefully, OL's luck doesn't turn.

    Corrections:
    ...and make it as opaque as I can
    I nod. "It does simplify things quite a lot."
     
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  12. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    The charter only applies to the Justice League. And going to war isn't a crime.
    Superman isn't supposed to pick a side, but he's not above floating over a border and glowering at people.
     
  13. Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    ... then he must be spending an awful lot of time in the sub continent, and Africa, and for that matter wider asia, because well after decolonization all those ethnic groups that hated each other before Europeans showed up went back to fighting each other with AKs.

    I feel that this should have probably more directly referred to twelve ongoing civil wars. Like I could probably find you twelve separate insurgencies between the countries that are just in Southern Asia, or Central Africa, and depending on how you define insurgency in central and latin america (never mind South America), which actually is probably a good out with regards to the situation of the charter as to why the league isn't supposed to get involved, because bad feelings about US interventionism, because DC Earth including Earth 16 certainly appears to heave close to Real World relations, for example Bialya and their neighbors disputes
     
  14. The Chosen One

    The Chosen One Getting out there.

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    The point is that, if there were no supers involved, the sheer scale of this conflict would still be beyond the purview of municipal law enforcement/the criminal justice system, so, yeah, the concept of "crime" no longer applies, until someone breaks international laws which actually apply at the same scale.
    As a dedicated crime fighting unit, the Team is already discharged of their duties, and could kick it up the chain whenever they felt like it. OL isn't 'bailing' so much as 'indulging' the others by doing even this amount of diplomacy.
     
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  15. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Not too sore, are you?

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    If this happened in the Renegade timeline, how would it go down? On one hand, Grayven would love it if humanity made itself physically superior. On the other, he might prefer it if he has more intel in that area and might set up some deniable assets to assist the natives and have more of a say in what happens.
     
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  16. moralrelativity

    moralrelativity Know what you're doing yet?

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    Indulging others, sure but he's also indulging himself. Paul wants to do this too. He likes helping peoples reach compromises. After all, a rising tide lifts all boats and the tide is going to have to lift a long way before they're out of the Reach's reach. :oops:
     
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  17. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

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    I prefer the original, where (IIRC) Oz says that he's not a Republic serial villain.
     
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  18. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    I updated it. Oz was speaking in a different era.
     
  19. Profipfreely

    Profipfreely Verified Pun

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    Zoat, if he's floating, he's very clearly above them.
     
  20. Jormuungaand

    Jormuungaand Out of work World Serpent

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    Are we allowed to beat other posters to the ground with rolled up newspapers?
     
  21. ForeverShogo

    ForeverShogo Know what you're doing yet?

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    Fire could probably do alright even against 100 Danner Enhanciles. Even if her fire has trouble flat out burning them, she could probably just use her flames to suck up all the oxygen and asphyxiate them.

    And I have to admit, the justifications for not interfering in this update is kind of amusing to me. None of these kinds of political concerns stopped the team from stepping in when Queen Bee was using her ability to try to bloodlessly annex one of her neighbors.
     
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  22. Khettien

    Khettien Perpetually confused

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    Civil disobedience, I think.

    Depressingly accurate.
     
  23. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    As of now, yes.
    That was one nation attacking another.
     
  24. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Eh it's not quite the same thing, Queen Bee was a known super villain who was suddenly buddy buddy with a leader who up until recently openly hated her and upon investigation was mind controlling him and, iirc, holding his daughter hostage to ease her conquest of a foreign nation

    Whereas here it's citizens of the country in question, albeit superpowered ones, protesting against their government, making it a civil political issue and thereby outside of the League's purview
     
  25. DrThoth

    DrThoth Know what you're doing yet?

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    Technically it's not an issue of 'if,' it should also be happening in the Renegade timeline as well (along, of course, with all the other Earth-16 SI timelines). I'd definitely be interested in how that goes, as well. IIRC, Black Manta is doing some work that's loosely related to assisting marginalized groups. Though the Brazilian government would probably try to stay far away from Renegade's radar, given his history in toppling governments (even if no one knows about his role in Darfur).
     
  26. rdfox

    rdfox Making the rounds.

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    To quote the manual to the old 1986 game "Balance of Power" (a wonderful Cold War-era geopolitics simulation by the then soon-to-be-legendary Chris Crawford), "every nation in the world is blessed with its very own insurgency." In game terms, yes, this meant the primary opposition to the government, which, in some of them (mostly stable Western democracies) ended up being the Opposition/Minority party; for example, in game, the US's "insurgency" was listed as the Democratic Party, since the game came out when the GOP held power in the US. That said, in less stable areas, the in-game insurgency would be a group more commonly associated with the term, such as FARC, the Contras, the Mujehaddin, and (in West Germany) the Red Army Faction.

    Even so, in the real world, just about every nation has its own semi-underground group of people who are opposed to the government and want to see it overthrown; many of them actually have multiple such groups, each with its own take on how things should be. I suspect that Zoat's meaning here was twelve cases of a civil war or what US law refers to as an "armed insurrection" against the government on the level of, say, The Troubles in Northern Ireland, where open acts of violence are commonplace, widespread, and openly endorsed as a means of action by the bulk of the anti-government forces, and said anti-government forces are powerful enough to pose an actual active threat to the stability of the government. By contrast (and I'm deliberately picking older examples here to avoid violating forum rules--but I'm pretty sure anyone can identify more recent examples that would qualify), the political violence in the US in the 60s and 70s being perpetrated by groups like the Weather Underground and the Symbionese Liberation Army would not be considered an active insurgency for these purposes, but rather criminal acts being committed for political purposes.

    The lines between a terror campaign committed by an active insurgency and a series of terrorist attacks by a small group of thugs motivated by political goals are blurry, but they're an important distinction in this case.
     
  27. Profipfreely

    Profipfreely Verified Pun

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    I came out here for a good time and I'm feeling very attacked right now...
    entirely by the newspapers.
     
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  28. Stsword

    Stsword I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    You're thinking of either the fire magic Green Flame version or the post gene bomb turns into green flame that flies around version.

    Zoat went with the "can breathe fire up to eight inches away from her face" version.

    There's a reason Paul thought Tora was the more useful potential recruit of the two.
     
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  29. Chaoswind

    Chaoswind Lord of nonsense

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    She can fly and throw fire a longer distances now, she leveled up after Linda/Noriel aka Loriel got recruited and taught Paul the modified magics Loriel is using and learned after thousands of years of being one of the angels of creation with her specialty being fire.
     
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  30. Lord Ernest

    Lord Ernest At the End...

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    When did that happen? 'Cause I don't remember reading that or where if it was implied somewhere, maybe? In fact, I can't remember the angel bitch sharing any specific knowledge of fire magic or something... and now that I think about it, I'm still salty that they let her take the 'Supergirl' title, even if Kara didn't want to be a superheroine. It just feels stolen.
     
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