1. Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. If you wish to change your username, please ask via conversation to tehelgee instead of asking via my profile. I'd like to not clutter it up with such requests.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. We have added another rule, please check the Rules post for more information.
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Due to some issues with Freenode, the QQ IRC Channel is moving. See here for more information.
    Dismiss Notice

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

Loading...
  1. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    9,381
    Likes Received:
    393,632
    Thank you, corrected.
     
  2. thebishop8

    thebishop8 Umm, ackchyually...

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2019
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    1,763
    Almost unthinkable? What does that mean; like anti-memetic?
     
  3. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    7,420
    Actually you can't kill the Queen.

    At least, not unless Zoat massively nerf's her, because she has contractual immortality to anything that's not a descendant of Aurakles or the sword Excalibur.
     
    LostPath, Cuchulin and caspian1a like this.
  4. caspian1a

    caspian1a I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2019
    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Maybe so but there are things much worse and far more painful than death.
     
    ChestBurster, Gilhelmi, RGFJ and 11 others like this.
  5. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    Maybe something like that perception filter in Dr Who.

    As in it literary makes it difficult for people to think of the ship even when it's attacking the planet.
     
    Gilhelmi, RGFJ, Ardy and 7 others like this.
  6. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    7,420
    He can certainly try.

    But with the change made by Paul to the multiverse, her forces are effectively infinite short of actually destroying their timeline of origin.
     
    Gilhelmi likes this.
  7. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    I love the whole god-challenge complexity thing.

    Their narrative powers are really fascinating.
     
  8. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    Renegade is a very powerful New God, has allies who are powerful godlike beings, has allies who are very skilled magic users, has a sword that can kill someone as powerful as the First of the Fallen, one of his allies is capable of defying destiny etc.

    Yeah I'd say that renegades chances of killing her are pretty high.

    Could you elaborate on this because I don't understand what the fuck you're saying.

    Granted that's nothing new, I can honestly barely understand what the fuck you're saying half the time.
     
  9. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,177
    Likes Received:
    18,811
    Ah, Grayven dealing with the matter of that Harrowing they're attempting on HIS world. This shall be delightful.

    Ooof, that's going to leave a mark on the American psyche in this universe. Even if they recover the captured people, there's going to be scars.

    Patience, Doctor. You'll have your vengeance soon enough. Swatting a few bugs won't be enough for you, will it?

    Besides, shipyards can be rebuilt. You're only going to get one shot at ol' Glory-Bra herself. She won't show her face here again if you fail. And trying to chase her to her era is asking for trouble.

    And the fish has bitten the bait. Time to reel them in.

    If Independence Day exists in this universe, just point them at that and say "These people are more advanced than those ones." Let them draw their own conclusions.

    Even if she doesn't take the whole bait, you'll still bring down one of their prized harvesting vessels. I doubt replacing one is so easy as they would a few bugs. They may well be in the Imperium of Man's situation, with limited or no capability to build such a ship from scratch, merely repair it.

    So, hit them with things they can't adapt to quickly enough. Or things that change constantly enough that it's much harder. Quite the challenge.

    At least he's getting plenty of ambient Fear for his constructs to be devastating.

    The Godspeech equivalent of 'Come at me, Bro, if you think you're hard enough!' I don't foresee Queen Tit-strap being hard enough...

    Yoo-hoo, anybody home? He's right here, boys. Grab your balls and try it!

    To borrow a meme: Calculated. Very sensible, placing himself where only one gun could target him.

    And in her castle, she's snarling in rage, though not showing one iota of it on her face...

    Of course, all this relies on Queenie having enough magical power to pick up on the Godspeech. No doubt she does, but it's going to be very embarrassing if she can't.

    Win-win. Just imagine what they can loot form the ship, assuming it survives in any reasonable condition.

    Typical adaptive defences bullshit. Let's see them resist a punch to the face. Or a Daiklaive!

    Which would thereby lessen his stance, concerning their perceived insignificance. Would it be worth the drain? Clearly Grayven doesn't think so.

    Yeah, no point pumping yourself up if you blow it by flailing like a little girl.

    No doubt missing the cloaked ones backing them up, because why would you reveal all your forces in one go?

    Pfft. You have minions to do that for you. Sure, you don't call them minions, you don't even think of them as such, but they are. And they love you for it. :sneaky: Truly devious.

    Got to love talented friends.

    And Mother Box is 100% behind him. After seeing the Sheeda at play, I'm not surprised.

    Presumably with what ships he managed to get into the air before their shipyard got smoked? That'll be a useful lever for influencing negotiations.

    Appearance is everything here, after all. Why show concern for the foe if you don't believe them a threat?

    Putting on a fine display of Drukhari chic, I see. Putting on her own show of complete disdain for any threats.

    Yes, quite. I doubt any picture you could show would be worksafe enough, even here.

    Well, that's laying it out square for her. Wonder what her response will be?

    Ah, this is damn satisfying. Seeing Grayven stick two fingers up at Queen Glory-Bra Tit-strap is going to be very fun to watch. At least, I hope we get to see her laugh at him, before he reveals his trump card... ;) He does have a trump card, right? Besides the Sword of the Fallen?

    Unless he's hitting them with the original series, I think you mean 'cannon'?

    Godspeech awaits you!


    Honestly, I don't know why you even engage with Vaermina any more. Just ignore him and let his contrary barking fall on deaf ears. I'd hate to see you get dinged by the mods again so soon. x3 We'd miss your proofreading skills!
     
  10. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,987
    Likes Received:
    6,961
    He’s expressing it badly, but essentially even if the origin point of the Sheeda is removed in THIS universe, there’s nothing saying that they can’t come from an alternate timeline anymore, as per the change Paul made. There are no longer a set number of timelines that are kept, so the Sheeda will always evolve in some alternate reality. It doesn’t matter anymore whether they evolve on this earth, because there will always be an infinite amount of timelines in which they do evolve. There is no obvious difference between Mandate Paul and the Sheeda so far as existence status or whatever you call it goes, and dimension hopping technology seems to be a lot easier to create / acquire as Zoat writes it than time travel.
     
  11. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    7,420
    All of which would require Zoat nerfing her contractual immortality to be in any way effective.

    By altering the multiverse so it's branching it becomes impossible to actually stop time travelers because for every universe where you do stop them there's a universe where you don't.

    Which means unless you erase their timeline of origin, there will always be more Sheeda showing up.


    I may tear up... Someone who actually understands multiversal theory...
     
    Cuchulin likes this.
  12. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    See the problem with this is that why would an infinite number of Sheeda attack this particular version of Earth 16, instead of say another version of it?

    Renegade can win this battle and the Sheeda will no longer bother him or his universe, even if they keep attacking some other version.

    Zoat can leave that bit in, but that doesn't change the fact that renegade has a whole lot of things that can make that contractual immortality seem pointless and weak.

    Mordru basically had a very powerful form of immortality and that didn't exactly stop renegade from figuring out a way to kill him.

    I'm also fairly sure a godkilling weapon like the Sword would be able to make mince meat out of Gloriana and her little immortality.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
  13. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,987
    Likes Received:
    6,961
    They will attack another version of Earth 16. They will also attack this version of Earth 16. They will attack as many versions of Earth 16 as they want until they are somehow stopped. Also, this might be the “root” or “main” earth 16. Earth 16-0 if you will. If it helps, there’s probably an alternate timeline where they didn’t attack this version of Earth 16 right now, but this just happens to be a universe where they did. Your point as to why they would attack THIS version of Earth 16 is irrelevant either way because you can argue why NOT attack this version just as easily. Such are the implications of multiverse theory.
     
    Cuchulin, Austin Pharos and Vaermina like this.
  14. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    • Rule 1 - No Personal Attacks
    I have an almost instinctual drive to mock and correct idiots like Vaermina on their mistakes and stupidities.

    The sad thing is that a lot of Vaerminas contrary barking doesn't fall on deaf ears, and there are people who actually consider a lot of his words to have some degree of truth to them.

    Yeah he can make some intelligent comments sometimes, like when he mocked Tangseid, but most of it is still just garbage that sadly some people actually buy.

    That you for your concern though.

    And thank you for complementing my skills.
     
  15. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    Or Zoat can just make it so that this version of Earth 16 gets lucky and doesn't experience anymore Harrowings.

    There's literary nothing stopping him from doing that.

    Infinite timelines and probabilities can make it so that this version is one that just experiences this one Harrowing and that's it.
     
  16. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    7,420
    Because there are a finite number of pasts but infinite numbers of futures.

    Which again, would be nerfing it, because those aren't named exceptions to her contractual immortality.

    You seem to be forgetting that it didn't actually kill Mordru, just kicked his energy self out and put his human host in a position to be killed.

    The Sword doesn't kill gods...

    In fact, the Sword doesn't kill anyone, the most it can actually do is force reincarnate them separated from their mystical power, which they can get back.

    Further even assuming Grayven can somehow inconvenience the Queen, that just means Melmoth will take over. And then Grayven will be out of luck, because his stuff very specifically only works once.
     
    Cuchulin likes this.
  17. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,987
    Likes Received:
    6,961
    True, but that’s not stopping them. If they lose here, they can also just create a timeline where they won 20 years ago or something.
     
    Cuchulin likes this.
  18. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    More like the fly has landed in the fly trap, given their insect like nature.

    Now I wanna see renegade make innuendos about the Queen, like when he was talking about his Earth 50 'counterpart'.

    She may be seeing them as an Apokalips like civilization.

    Which is pretty accurate all things considered.

    Evil civilization doing evil things because their leader is an utter piece of shit.
     
    Cuchulin and Chojin Patriarch like this.
  19. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    7,420
    An important fact Grayven forgot, the Sheeda had a Fatherbox.

    It was one of their Seven Imperishable Treasures.
     
  20. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    5,275
    ...A fatherbox from the future?
     
  21. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    And Zoat can just make it so that in a lot of those futures the Sheeda just died of something, like say plague or civil war, or even never came about.

    Also this raises an interesting idea.

    What if there aren't a finite numbers of pasts, but an infinite number?

    What is our present was once considered someones else's future, so if our past is changed then our present would also be changed, potentially in countless ways.

    Nerfing is making a character weaker.

    Zoat may decide to give his version of Gloriana the same powers as her comic self, but he may just decide to make his characters powers be superior to hers.

    That's not nerfing.

    Gloriana in the comics basically faced a bunch of ragtag misfits, but in this story she's going to face a very powerful and very advanced threat that's been preparing for her arrival for months now.

    So Gloriana will still be dead for some time and they can destroy her army.

    And if she comes back he can just assimilate her.

    Or Zoat can make it that Sheeda stay perma dead after being stabbed.

    In order for someone to reincarnate they'd have to be dead first.

    Only two people have been able to get their power back after being killed by the Sword, the First and Zauriel.

    Zoat can just make it so that in order for someone to get their power back after being stabbed with the Sword they'd need a strong connection to the Source.

    If you dislike this idea and think it's wrong then provide a list on the abilities and limitations of the Sword, if you don't do this then kindly shut up.

    Zoat can also make it so that Melmoh is really dead in the renegade side like how he made it so that Xor's ship actually arrived at that prison instead of malfunctioning like in the paragon side.

    Also why would renegades shit only work once?

    The Sword can work multiple times, like how the First was stabbed by that Succubus and later on by Paul in the Prayer episode.

    Or renegade can stop them with anything Sivana and his Mother Box have.

    They've been preparing to fight them for months now so they may have foreseen some time manipulation bullshit from the Sheeda and decided to make it so they don't experience that, like trapping the Sheeda once they enter the present day.

    And Zoat can just make it so that this version of the Sheeda never had a Father Box.

    No, the past.

    If I remember correctly they got it from some New Gods.

    Aurakle was basically an uplift experiment on a neanderthal made by some New Gods.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
    Xmaster3000, RGFJ, Cuchulin and 3 others like this.
  22. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,987
    Likes Received:
    6,961
    Basically, the only way Renegade wins this is by killing the Sheeda Queen, Melmoth, whoever else might have wanted to keep them alive, and any possible future Sheeda leaders. Because if he doesn’t, they can simply travel back in their past and warn themselves the invasion they’re about to kick off didn’t work. The only other real alternative is that any time travel at all splits and creates an alternate 2nd timeline (the Stein’s Gate scenario), and this isn’t the case because the Sheeda have invaded in the past. Even if they somehow lock down time travel now, there is no way to win. They’d have to follow the Sheeda back to the future and exterminate all of them there before they can warn their past selves.

    This is now a Terminator scenario: whichever party is in the future always eventually wins if they can simply go back in time and create themselves or warn themselves of enemy invasion plans or anything like that, except in this case, Skynet doesn’t even have to invade: the neutral course of events is for them to exist (since Melmoth made sure of that as per Paragon story)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
    Cuchulin and Vaermina like this.
  23. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    I think we can all agree that the writers of Rick and Morty were right to stay away from time travel, it just doesn't make any sense.
     
    Ardy and Mquz like this.
  24. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,987
    Likes Received:
    6,961
    True, it leads to some interesting story telling, and sometimes makes sense if it runs on a limited resource (before Paul changed multiverse theory here it’s limited because you can’t permanently change the timeline) , and Doctor Who (at least the new series) has “anything the time traveler literally observes becomes something they can’t change without causing a paradox due to changing why they did things and what they did”, but that’s obviously not a limit in DC comics and we haven’t seen anything like it from Time Trapper. Otherwise, when you have fans who argue, they can and will continue arguing endlessly until there is some WOG or bullshit that trumps time travel or just until they get bored. And some, (Vaermina), will continue arguing after that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
  25. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    9,381
    Likes Received:
    393,632
    No, he hooked it up to a Death Note and the Element of MDK.
     
  26. moralrelativity

    moralrelativity Recovering pendant.

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    2,287
    Second that.
     
    Darko likes this.
  27. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    I'm sorry I just have an instinctual need to correct idiots and those who are wrong about something.

    But thank you for your concern.
     
  28. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    5,275
    So I am on a re-read of this fic, and I saw something.

    "And I found out this morning that the fishmen I fought on Saturday are descended from a civilisation that was probably wiped out by the Sheeda."

    "Fairies?"

    "No, the inhabitants of Earth in the far future. Some of them look a bit like fairies and they can use magic… They loot past civilisations to keep their own going."

    This is Paragon talking to Constantine about existential threats, after the Beast fiasco. So John in Paragon’s timeline heard about the Sheeda, and other threats.

    So my speculation: Is that what John has been doing quietly? Using his powers as a Lord of Chaos to deal with these threats? Taking care of stuff like that? For all I know, he might appear this episode to help with Sheeda. I don’t think this explains why he has been out of contact, however.

    Thoughts?
     
  29. Chaoswind

    Chaoswind Lord of nonsense

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    1,773
    The changes time trapper Paul made weren't about creating an infinite number of time-lines whenever a small change would occur. It was about changing the mechanics so that time lines born of large changes would spun on their own without rewriting/destroying one another.

    A new time line isn't created whenever you make a choice, that would be fairly ridiculous.
     
  30. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    95,200
    In fairness all time travel can be ridiculous.

    Also what would we even consider to be small and big events?

    For example imagine that in one timeline you choose to eat an apple, while in another timeline you ate a banana.

    This can seem like small and insignificant things, but what if they aren't?

    The apple was responsible for giving you a stomach virus so you had to stay home or in a hospital, while the banana didn't do such a thing.

    Without you being sick you could go out and meet someone that you would have a child with, and that child would then go on to do some things that can dramatically change things, like maybe bring about universal peace, while if you ate the apple you wouldn't meet that person and have a child with them.

    The conclusion of this is that time travel is a ridiculous concept.
     
    Gilhelmi likes this.
Loading...