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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Versed in the lewd.

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    To be fair, while short-sighted, he wasn't completely wrong. He has a stupidly versatile tool/weapon he never takes off (except for when he does) that makes his "unarmed" cqc skill completely irrelevant. Even if he trained every single day for the past two years(?) I very much doubt it would've mattered against an opponent who presumably trained and fought for most of her life.

    He probably should've downloaded some unarmed/meele combat skill package (Matrix style) by now but that would make scenes like this even more ridiculous. Zoat is already struggling to write interesting fight scenes without nerfing OL and removing one more of his weak spots is counterproductive to that end. It's the same reason he went out of his way to avoid making his body less squishy. You know what's better than wrapping your frail human flesh in powerarmor and forcefields? Giving yourself a superthoughness and then wrapping yourself in powerarmor and forcefields.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  2. m_d

    m_d Fascinated by storytelling

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    After he got his arms blown off in Otherworld 10, requiring him to summon his rings back with his environmental shield down in the middle of a fight, he decided to improve his survival odds in Otherworld 18 by doing that. I don't recall fully whether or not he intends this to be permanent.
     
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  3. Doccer

    Doccer Not too sore, are you?

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    I always knew from the first time I read Paul training with Canary and him saying it was pointless because if he didn't have his rings to help him his first priority would be to get them, that this would happen.
    Granted I thought more along the lines of his rings being locked in a vault with magic sigils to keep the Orange Light un responsive or something and he actually having to fight thru gaurdsmen villains monsters, steal gear transport and all the things the other professionals in his new livelihood knew he had to do and kept reminding him of but he was too intelligent to listen to professional advice.


    Toss her a ring! Oh...wait...
     
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  4. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    In all fairness he did take lessons in fighting and is fairly capable in it, but he wasn't going to focus on fighting ordinary, albeit well trained, humans.

    With his ring taking care of such people is child's play, so he focused on fighting super strong or powerful opponents.
     
  5. Korfayron

    Korfayron Making the rounds.

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    Throw a ring at her, she then has it and he wins.
     
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  6. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    The rings are sadly in his body right now and he may have lost control of them until this duel is finished.
     
  7. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Not too sore, are you?

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    I find it amusing that everyone's using that moment as an "I told you so." when in point of fact that there's not a chance in hell that basic hand to hand training is going to meaningfully effect the outcome here. This is a new god enhanced grundy person. Even if he does get a hit in with his blade it's unlikely to finish things. Either the effect will be broken/minimized or he'll figure out how to actually use some of the new god tricks producing godspeech earlier demonstrates him theoretically capable of.
     
  8. Doccer

    Doccer Not too sore, are you?

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    Until it wasn't.
     
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  9. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    This woman is far from being an ordinary well trained human.

    If he tried to fight her with just his physical capabilities then he would be killed.
     
  10. Doccer

    Doccer Not too sore, are you?

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    He IS fighting her with just his physical capabilities and whatever is left of his armor capabilities.
     
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  11. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    I know that, but your first comment about him not taking advice from Canary seemed to imply that if he did take her advice then he would be more easily capable of beating her with just his fighting skills.

    If you meant this then you would be wrong because unless you're Batman or Karate Kid you're not going to be able to defeat a super strong god with just your fists, even if you do know how to use them very well.

    If you didn't mean this then I apologize for any misunderstanding.
     
  12. Doccer

    Doccer Not too sore, are you?

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    I meant that he never took his PT or CQC seriously. He used the fact that his ring kept his body at peak physical perfection to not train si he never got use to the effort and strain that can drain one's stamina. Never really thought or cared about the physical training that his teachers insisted he do unless team bonding or forced on him. And even then he did it grudgingly, bare minimal effort beyond what it took to complete. The skills and instincts of combat never really became muscle memory to him the way it is to others. Just as he had time allocated for Ring Training he could have done the same for physical stuff. Or at least take what training was forced upon him or available to him seriously at minimal. Most physical combat he has experienced with is in his fully kitted out power armour alone. No I don't expect him to fight with little more than his fists and whatever he can lay his hands on. But it's not the first time his Ring powers have been disabled and have to do without. And whenever he does?

    Less time complaining, more focus O.L.!

    Much the same reaction to previous attempts to get him to move in ways that cause sweat. Only this time his power armor can't be used in ways that can't be directed defined as 'armor'.
    At most it'll help as a physical boost. If he thinks quickly maybe he can sheath his blade on one side to unleash his blade on the other. As that would be 'switching hands'. But mostly this battle is the one with greater skill and so on that will win unless Paul gets any better ideas till Canis or someone helps.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  13. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    The reason he didn't spend so much time in physical training is because he wasn't going to primarily fight people in hand to hand combat, but rather use his constructs to take them out.

    He has trained in using his ring for CQC, but that was for fighting super strong opponents, not ordinary people.

    OL doesn't have super strength without his ring so he needed to use his ring for that type of training.

    OL can actually fight without his ring but doesn't do it that much due to the fact that he doesn't need to do it and because he's not stupid enough to take it off for something like being insulted that he's worthless without it or for an honor duel, not unless he has a trick up his sleeve at least, like for his fight with Ragnar.
     
  14. LZB1285

    LZB1285 Getting out there.

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    Does anyone else remember the saying about the best swords(wo)man vs the worst swordsman. You can't predict what the twit's gonna do...
     
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  15. Agumentic

    Agumentic Know what you're doing yet?

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    The point is, even if Paul took his unpowered training totally seriously and spent a lot of time on it, he would still be outmatched here and at best have a bit more time to come with some clever solution. That rather small increase in a very unlikely situation would come at the cost of a big decrease in his other capabilities he uses 99.99% of time. Not spending a lot of time on compensating your weakness directly makes sense, it is much more efficient to compensate for it indirectly. Just because OL now fell into an edge case situation doesn't make this not true.
     
  16. rkyeun

    rkyeun Cabbitus Maximus

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    This is why when you find weird cocoons with bodies in them in evil fairy godking's lair, you have the Praexis Demons eat first, and ask questions never.
     
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  17. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Not too sore, are you?

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    Those don't exist anymore. Have been gone for quite a while actually.
     
  18. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    Sadly he lost most of his demon constructs when Agony and Ecstasy destroyed them during the Ressurectionists episode.

    The only demon construct he has now is the Hellwarith thing and maybe that amphibian from that city the Sheeda forgot missed that was assimilated by the Ophidian during the Titanfall episode.
     
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  19. Doccer

    Doccer Not too sore, are you?

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    When his Ring is NEGATED. Not willingly removed. NEGATED. Like now.
    You had my intent and reasoning correct in your last post. I just wanted to try and clarify further how even his attitude towards physical skill training didn't help him. If he had he wouldn't be complaining about not being able to use his powers till after the fight was done. If he put effort in he'd probably feel more confident than to complain. Thus more focus into the fight and finding a solution.
    He might win as is now but more than likely he'll find another solution. Which is fine. He is a Lantern. Physical combat isn't how he'll typically win, it's how he will stays alive untill he does. Thus my point about the confidence/focus thing.
    The only abnormal part of this fight is that many of his power armor offensive capabilities are down. Small mercies her armor is powering her somehow so his can keep the physical gap disparity small, instead of (at worst) powering down into an armored coffin.
     
  20. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    I think that even if he trained more for physical combat that he'd still complain.

    He would have still most likely focused on his ring use rather than physical combat, so even if he trained a bit more he'd still most likely complain because his greatest advantage was taken from him.

    It's also kinda hard to feel confident in your fighting skills when your opponent has super strength and you don't.

    I guess he lost some of his armors offensive capabilities because the challenge made them equals, so now he just has enhanced strength because she has enhanced strength, but lacks any long range weapons he may have had because she doesn't have any long range attacks.
     
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  21. Coda

    Coda I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Well, there's two ways to approach an equalizer like this.

    Everyone's focusing on giving buffs to Aurakos that the SI will benefit more from.

    Nobody's suggested nerfing the SI so that Aurakos has to fight in an area outside of her own skillset.

    If Paul shucks the armor, then Aurakos gets brought down to baseline human. If she tries to use New God technology at that point, the SI gets to use orange light.
     
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  22. Alexcorvin

    Alexcorvin Goodbye

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    @Mr. Zoat apologizes if this has already been posted, but could you give me a link to an image of Paul's armor? I'm curious what it looks like. Thank you in advance.
     
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  23. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    The SI doesn't have any. There are still plenty unassimilated ones about.
    I'll be able to post that just as soon as someone draws it.
     
  24. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    Can you at least give us a hint as to what it looks like, like say does it look like the armor worn by Spartans in Halo, or something similar?
     
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  25. Tyrantviewer

    Tyrantviewer lord of all I survey

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    Is the Zatara's logomancy being that way WOG or are extrapolating from word of god- I always saw it being like Wishcraft from Fate/Stay Night. The eizenberns had a sorcery trait that lets them substitute MORE POWER for the nitty gritty of magecraft- but it scales poorly enough, and we see few enough of them, that we don't see them pulling things like copying other magi styles with sheer power- instead they focus on physical alchemy, as a field where throwing a ton of power will leave tangible results behind, and as one that with their specialty in Homunculi, lets them create the equivalent of magical generators. Plus their big family goal is achieving the Third magic again, which as one of the effects of mastery, makes the user an infinite source of magical energy.

    That went on longer than I planed but basically while the Eizenberns have the ability to just throw more power at a problem instead of developing the intricate spells to accomplish something (the whole holy grail war is a set up to leverage just enough spellwork and enough magical power so that their wishcraft (the head of the family at the time sacrificed herself to be part of the system) can make up the difference and reach the root) I always saw the Zataras as basically having a similar shortcut.

    TDLR i don't think the Zataras do the backwards talk because they know JUST SO MUCH about magic, but because they have a bloodline given ability that lets them substitute the backwards talk for other spellwork- ie Talking backwards instead of invoking gods or making ritual circles. And like the Eizenberns their are limits to it, probably in terms of knowledge and practice or else they would be gods that could backwards talke their way into anything.

    I think it might depend on how exactly Grundymen work- my guess is that the souls don't leave the body properly- heck the whole practice might exist due to whatever Melmoth did to make a zombie new god work- ei blocking souls from moving on.

    The issue is surviving removing a ring long enough to hand one over, and since his other sword just won't work since the zomgod only has one, there is the risk that the god magic might consider it uneven if the remaining implanted ring is implanted instead of worn like the one he could hand over. So he has to risk cutting open his chest to remove that ring and hope the one in his skull will start working so he can survive that, and at the moment he is stuck in his armor in the middle of a fight so he can't stop to carefully do self surgery.

    Also has melmoth stoped talking or is Paul's muting him still working indicating that ring functions not aimed at making the fight uneven might be working-
     
  26. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    My guess is that the mute functions are still working.

    I doubt Melmoth stays quiet unless he's muted.
     
  27. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    No. Honestly, it doesn't look like armour that anyone would want to try fighting in. It's bulky and the head is built into the torso.
     
  28. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

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    So... The institute power armor from fallout...

    [​IMG]

    I guess the moral of this story is he should stop trying to design stuff himself and hire actual specialists to do the job.
     
  29. PDV

    PDV The Revelation That Uncertainty is Itself a Answer

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    Hmm. How do you fight, if you're distinctly under-skilled in the combat you have to fight? First couple of ideas:
    • Frame judo: Pull a McNinja and try to switch sides, or try to argue her down rather than fight
    • Plan 'Final Strike': really, explosively destructive suicide. Ends the fight, and Paul will recover much more easily than her.

    How is it backfiring? Inability to give her a ring, I guess?
     
  30. Tyrantviewer

    Tyrantviewer lord of all I survey

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    More specifically implanting the rings means he cant remove them when an enemy's countermeasures would make that a good idea- in the season 1 finale he took his ring off to shoot at klarion since the bugger was leaching off of it with help from a Genie? if I remember right- basically he avoided the common way of disarming him, but made it nigh impossible to counter an exotic way of disarming himself- I don't think he ever considered someone being able to keep him from using a ring without taking it away from him, which is fair since he han't fought anyone with the right sort of exotic abilities for that- ie a new god who basically has limited reality hacks- since the orange light is already high up their conceptually.

    This is the first time he would be facing someone who could nullify his access to the rings- and most ones I could think of would be godlike to the point that he would have bigger things to worry about- New gods just have the specific kind of reality warping that lets them hit above their apparent weight class- which is the whole reason they call themselves the new gods, they all have the potential to basically have cheat codes for reality via their domain abilities- yet then they basically just shoot or stab like a typical super but MORE because since they are a god they are inherently MORE.

    In the end this is a very niche ability- hard countering any gadget or tool focused fighter- heck i wouldn't be surprised if his power armor only works because the zombgod is so strong and fast, or because it locking up would be uneven itself. IT is a very fitting power for someone who apparently is the child of a new god neanderthal- the sort of tech level of the opponents she would have normally faced is impossible to gaige due to the time travel and new god aspects- but an ability that enforces "equality" in weapons would hard counter anyone more prepared than her, and as a new god she can always default to punches and kicks... I wonder if it would be possible to nerf her if she used it on the wrong opponent, unlikely since it is purely equipment.

    It reminds me of Kuwagawa from Madaka Box- his base power is literally bringing people down to his level- which bit him in the ass when he uses it instead of the very broken Alll fiction power he had gained in a fight with the protag- since for all his twisted pride in how weak he was, he and the MC had a hell of a slugfest when on the same level, largely because he was truely determined and brave despite his self depreciation, so the ability he thought would utterly demoralize his foe still left her with the will to win, because he still had it himself.


    On ways Paul could get out of this- the way the god magic seems to be working it only nullifies equipment- maybe paul could pull a Malthusian and control the orange light directly long enough to turn the tide, maybe via moving his rings?
     
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