With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[BR549]

...The back end is a botanical Latin term.

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It's not just botanical; it's the literal term for the sperm-carrying arm of a cephalopod.

...honestly the Narn engineer trying to bowlderise the Centauri dick joke of the ship's name only made it worse.

Minbari vessels were quite a step above human vessels, I understand, so using anything less than lethal force against them would be challenging.

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More than that; even using lethal force against them was challenging. Minbari ECM systems were so potent that it was literally virtually impossible for EarthForce ships to so much as hit them at anything other than point-blank, aimed-visually-down-the-barrel-of-the-guns range. And of course trying to get there just meant being "to shreds, you say"-ed.

(This is even how the Earth-Minbari War actually started; Dukhat requsted the Valen'Tha scan the approaching human vessel to get a better feeling of the capabilities of the species that was choosing to approach them for the first time. The ship's mere scanners were so powerful that they disrupted Prometheus' systems severely; combined with the Minbari tradition - equivilant to the gun salute of a returning warship - of approaching a vessel with weapons ports open to show respect, that started the whole ball rolling downhill. Captain Janikowski is widely painted as a belligerant, jumpy idiot for nearly getting humanity killed off by choosing to fire on the Minbari, but honestly with a large ship of unknown capabaility approaching with gunports open and starting to fry your ship's systems, what would anyone else have had him do...)

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Huh.

The main thing for Superman would be resolving his 'I want to good things for people' versus 'I don't want to do these sorts of thing' dilemma. Kal-El isn't someone who'd be comfortable just executing people in the way that the SI would be, but it's possible that someone like Luthor might find himself holidaying in the Phantom Zone.

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So, he'd keep his moral code for the most part, but would also end up getting kooky about it? And he'd also end up becoming more willing to resort to unconvential punishments for supervillains to make sure they're permanently taken off the board without killing them?

 

[Mr Zoat]

So, he'd keep his moral code for the most part, but would also end up getting kooky about it? And he'd also end up becoming more willing to resort to unconvential punishments for supervillains to make sure they're permanently taken off the board without killing them?

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I suspect so. Enlightenment removes internal contradictions, it doesn't turn you into a psychopath. He might not go as hard as 'dump them in the Phantom Zone'. He might just talk to Batman about doing something like what the League did in series three.

 

[Vaermina]

He widens his eyes slightly. "The Six-Fold Delver."

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Wow, that's like calling a human ship balls deep.

"I do alright."

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Most of the species use a digital banking system, you're as rich as you want to be unless the Shadows or Vorlon's notice you mucking about.

"And I don't really want to fly back to the narn homeworld without gravity." I frown. "Do you know why Earthforce didn't reverse engineer artificial gravity from minbari wrecks?"

He looks dismissive. "Your people didn't wreck enough minbari ships. And when they did wreck them, the minbari fleet pushed them back before they could salvage anything. The only other people your species has fought in significant numbers are the dilgar, and they didn't have the technology."

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They actually could have bought artificial gravity technology from the Vree, but the version the Vree use is incompatible with human design.

I shrug. "You're in charge of renovations. Make sure that accommodations are liveable-." I frown. "Can humans and narn eat the same food?"

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Mostly, same with Centauri and Minbari food.

 

[boo600]

...what do they do? I'm not getting a straight answer from reddit/google, or the wiki, and google's slop machine keeps trying to convince me they execute criminals/give them a 'mark of caine.' Which is clearly nonsense.

 

[Jankl]

I suspect so. Enlightenment removes internal contradictions, it doesn't turn you into a psychopath. He might not go as hard as 'dump them in the Phantom Zone'. He might just talk to Batman about doing something like what the League did in series three.

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Would other forms of enlightment do the same to him? Like say Hope, willpower, Rage or even Life? Enligthment of Orange light removes internal contradictions but would the others do the same?

 

[CrazyNoVa]

I suspect so. Enlightenment removes internal contradictions, it doesn't turn you into a psychopath. He might not go as hard as 'dump them in the Phantom Zone'. He might just talk to Batman about doing something like what the League did in series three.

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Well, it obviously doesn't remove all forms of contradictions or self-doubt, because we've seen Paul question and doubt himself several times after he got enlightenment. Besides, when it comes to desires, it's entirely possible for someone to desire two things at the same time, even if those things are opposite to each other.

But the question is, how would Superman adjust or react to his ability to perceive everyone's desires, including his own? And would his friends and loved ones notice his civilian identity's change in personality?

 

[The Chosen One]

Well, it obviously doesn't remove all forms of contradictions or self-doubt, because we've seen Paul question and doubt himself several times after he got enlightenment. Besides, when it comes to desires, it's entirely possible for someone to desire two things at the same time, even if those things are opposite to each other.

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Well, no, enlightenment doesn't remove all uncertainty from the universe when it comes to how he should best achieve his goals, but, if I understand correctly, it DOES give him perfect awareness of what his goals actually ARE. If two of his desires cannot be pursued simultaneously, then he knows, perfectly, which is more important to him, and acts on that one.

 

[mastermenthe]

Well, no, enlightenment doesn't remove all uncertainty from the universe when it comes to how he should best achieve his goals, but, if I understand correctly, it DOES give him perfect awareness of what his goals actually ARE. If two of his desires cannot be pursued simultaneously, then he knows, perfectly, which is more important to him, and acts on that one.

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Which is why i find it so tiring when commentors complain about OL leaving the Illuminati alive and unconfined.

 

[Mr Zoat]

28th September 2013
13:43 GMT -5

"Hey." Zatanna tilts her head my way as we march across the grassland. "How bad is it?"

I see her face… Just her face, and the grass below her, and the distant tree line…

This must be what it's like for telepaths when they talk to robots.

"To quote 'The Life of Brian'."

"Oh no."

"'You come from nothing, you're going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!'."

"Doesn't..? He say that..? When they're getting crucified?"

"Yes." I sigh. "Aside from-." No, wait, do I-? "For a couple of years now, whenever I've looked at a person I can see their desires. If I don't' push it's just a coloured blur, but I knew it was there. And now I don't see anything. It's like looking at someone's face with half the features removed."

She nods sympathetically. "Or like a telepath talking to a robot."

"That's what I was thinking. I've only been able to do it for a couple of years, but it's like… When I started wearing glasses."

"You don't wear glasses."

"I don't need to anymore. My ring fixed my short-sightedness. My vision wasn't even particularly bad, but once I had glasses and distant shop signs stopped being a blurred mess, I never looked back."

"I get it. Dad nearly had a heart attack when he found out I inherited his magic, but I can't imagine being without it." She considers me again. "But if it did vanish one day, it wouldn't change how I think."

"I think it would. There are-."

"Paul."

"It's confusing. It's what I imagine early stage Alzheimer's is like. I've gone from knowing what I'm doing to being in a confused haze."

"The same haze almost everyone else in the galaxy is in."

"Hey, it's the same haze I spent most of my life in. But when you've been out of the haze, you know what a mess it is."

She looks unimpressed. "Thanks."

Ugh, was that a mistake I wouldn't have made..? What am I even trying to do, talking to her? If I-. I'm not trying to reassure her, she's trying to reassure me. To make sure that I'm not freaking out. So…

"I'll manage. Once this is over, I-."

Oh no. It just…

"What?"

"It just occurred to me that Yap might have stolen my capacity for enlightenment, as well as enlightenment itself. Which means that without major thaumic chirurgy I wouldn't ever be able to get it back. And the Ophidian might be freaking out because I don't share her perspective any more..."

"Couldn't Xalitan Xor handle that now?"

"I… Yeah… Depends on how the two of them relate."

"Hasn't he spoken to her?"

"Yes, once that I know about. But he doesn't have the same sort of relationship that I have with her. Or… Maybe that's the pride talking. No, it's-. I hatehatehate having my mind altered like this."

"Your eyes just… Glowed."

"Warn me if my irises turn into orange sigils."

"Why?"

"It's a sign that I've taken leave of my senses and am ignoring everything other than the desire I'm currently feeling. I can be reasoned with in that state, but don't take any unnecessary risks."

She looks away. "Right."

Yeah, that's not really a fun thing to-. Or maybe she's thinking about how she acted under the influence of the Star Sapphire? I'm not-.

Timothy dashes forward at a dead sprint while Hiro stops and gasps! What did-?

Ah. heck.

Lonnie Machin has been speared to the tree, feet hanging two metres above the ground. His mask is moving as if it's his face, silently gasping in agony. The spear was thrust downward, and I think he's trying to push himself up the shaft to escape while it's getting lubricated with his blood and causing him to slip. He… Shouldn't be alive. Probably shouldn't still be bleeding either, unless…

"Pots gnitruh flesruoy!"

Zatanna runs after Timothy, who's reached the base of the tree and is looking for a way to climb up.

"T'nod eid!"

Okay, they can-.

Next to me, Hiro is staring in horror.

I-. Don't-.

What would Alan do?

Ah.

I trigger my armour's flight system, launching myself at the tree, holstering my gun as I go. I slam into the tree next to him and grab the branches with my legs and free arm.

"Uuh."

"Zatanna, get ready to catch!" Knife to the spear behind him… And enchanted wood beats science fiction knife. Fine.

"Netfos dnuorg!"

I cut into the tree, slicing wedges out easily enough. Lonnie appears to spot what I'm doing and braces himself. There, I can see the head of the spear, cut from beneath-.

Lonnie drops, spear clasped through his chest. He turns to his side as he hits the ground, trying to prevent further trauma to the spear wound. But instead of a heavy impact, the ground undulates underneath him like a bouncy castle. Ripples expand across the surrounding field, vanishing into the distance as the point of impact returns to normal level.

I push off the tree, using my thrusters to slow my descent in case that was a Lonnie-only thing.

Zatanna's next to Lonnie. She pulls his costume jacket away from the site of the wound

"Hself stink rehtegot sa eht raeps sevael!"

She then.. pulls, the spear slowly sliding free of Lonnie's body as Timothy helps prop him up.

I land next to Hiro. "You alright?"

He nods, eyes wide and staring at the field chirurgy.

"You're clearly not alright. He's alive, and he's going to stay that way. Have you never seen a wound like that before?"

"Not-not in person. On the screens, yes, not… Like this."

"Love to be able to tell you this is the last time you will, but that would be a lie. Think about that when we get out of here."

 

[Ngamer11]

I wasn't expecting that. I'm guessing this translocation was either completely unexpected, or went in a different direction than what Anarky expected.

 

[lancelot]

I'm not sure how you couldn't see this coming from a mile away. Lonnie Has been ignoring everyone and everything that's been telling him what he's doing is really, really fucking stupid. Now finally he's moved from the fuck around portion of his antics, to the find out portion.
If he wasn't such a complete fucking genius I'm pretty sure the ship is repelling to prove himself right would have killed him a long time ago. It would be nice if this was enough of a disaster for it to be the wake up call he needs to stop screwing around. But I'm pretty sure the only way that's going to happen is with a major body count.

 

[hkim]

I'm not sure how you couldn't see this coming from a mile away. Lonnie Has been ignoring everyone and everything that's been telling him what he's doing is really, really fucking stupid. Now finally he's moved from the fuck around portion of his antics, to the find out portion.
If he wasn't such a complete fucking genius I'm pretty sure the ship is repelling to prove himself right would have killed him a long time ago. It would be nice if this was enough of a disaster for it to be the wake up call he needs to stop screwing around. But I'm pretty sure the only way that's going to happen is with a major body count.

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Counterpoint: arcane fuckups don't tend to get you nailed to a tree unless you're Jesus. ...or Brian, I guess?

This smells more like interference, which while still not great for wee Lonnie could have happened to anyone.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

28th September 2013
13:43 GMT -5

"Hey." Zatanna tilts her head my way as we march across the grassland. "How bad is it?"

I see her face… Just her face, and the grass below her, and the distant tree line…

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Ah. Without his Enlightenment, his empathic sense takes actual effort to use, and he can't even muster that much. At least it seems like he can still feel desires, so Yap didn't rip all of that out entirely. But he's back to human levels of focus now...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

This must be what it's like for telepaths when they talk to robots.

"To quote 'The Life of Brian'."

"Oh no."

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At least he's in shape to quote non-existent (in this universe, more or less) comedians.

"'You come from nothing, you're going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!'."

"Doesn't..? He say that..? When they're getting crucified?"

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Doesn't make it any less profound-sounding. Fitting for someone mistaken for a messiah.

"Yes." I sigh. "Aside from-." No, wait, do I-? "For a couple of years now, whenever I've looked at a person I can see their desires. If I don't' push it's just a coloured blur, but I knew it was there. And now I don't see anything. It's like looking at someone's face with half the features removed."

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And he's finding out how much he relied on that ability to work with people.

She nods sympathetically. "Or like a telepath talking to a robot."

"That's what I was thinking. I've only been able to do it for a couple of years, but it's like… When I started wearing glasses."

"You don't wear glasses."

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Orange Ring. Soon as he had it, he improved himself, including his eyes. Wouldn't be surprised if he gave himself enhancements like the whole 'optic nerve behind the retina' thing other people have received from him.

"I don't need to anymore. My ring fixed my short-sightedness. My vision wasn't even particularly bad, but once I had glasses and distant shop signs stopped being a blurred mess, I never looked back."

"I get it. Dad nearly had a heart attack when he found out I inherited his magic, but I can't imagine being without it." She considers me again. "But if it did vanish one day, it wouldn't change how I think."

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As long as you aren't using it for frivolous things, that's probably fine. A constant passive telekinesis effect, for example...

"I think it would. There are-."

"Paul."

"It's confusing. It's what I imagine early stage Alzheimer's is like. I've gone from knowing what I'm doing to being in a confused haze."

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The lack of central focus from lacking Enlightenment. His desires all tangled together in a confused mess, without the ability to concentrate on a single goal to the exclusion of all else... I can see why he feels lost now.

"The same haze almost everyone else in the galaxy is in."

"Hey, it's the same haze I spent most of my life in. But when you've been out of the haze, you know what a mess it is."

She looks unimpressed. "Thanks."

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Come on, Zee. You remember when you were suffering Violet Light overload, that mono-focus on gaining his 'love'? Imagine being able to experience that kind of single-mindedness but for just about anything.

Ugh, was that a mistake I wouldn't have made..? What am I even trying to do, talking to her? If I-. I'm not trying to reassure her, she's trying to reassure me. To make sure that I'm not freaking out. So…

"I'll manage. Once this is over, I-."

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I suppose when all his thoughts have been tinted by desire for years, it's a little harder to process the rest of the spectrum 'naked', as it were.

Oh no. It just…

"What?"

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Indeed, what?

"It just occurred to me that Yap might have stolen my capacity for enlightenment, as well as enlightenment itself. Which means that without major thaumic chirurgy I wouldn't ever be able to get it back. And the Ophidian might be freaking out because I don't share her perspective any more..."

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I suspect the Best Snek would feel motivated to sort that matter out for him.

"Couldn't Xalitan Xor handle that now?"

"I… Yeah… Depends on how the two of them relate."

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She's probably of the opinion he's fine, but her first real Agent is better.

"Hasn't he spoken to her?"

"Yes, once that I know about. But he doesn't have the same sort of relationship that I have with her. Or… Maybe that's the pride talking. No, it's-. I hatehatehate having my mind altered like this."

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If anything, its' more the fact someone else did the altering, isn't it. Or unaltering, depending on the effect's original intention.

"Your eyes just… Glowed."

"Warn me if my irises turn into orange sigils."

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Ah, trusting her to talk him down if he goes full Larfleeze. Or just stop him outright...

"Why?"

"It's a sign that I've taken leave of my senses and am ignoring everything other than the desire I'm currently feeling. I can be reasoned with in that state, but don't take any unnecessary risks."

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In other words, look to take him out non-lethally, but put him down before he does something he'll regret.

She looks away. "Right."

Yeah, that's not really a fun thing to-. Or maybe she's thinking about how she acted under the influence of the Star Sapphire? I'm not-.

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It could be both, you know. The kind of feelings the Violet Light acted on don't go away completely even if she decided they were wrong.

Timothy dashes forward at a dead sprint while Hiro stops and gasps! What did-?

Ah. heck.

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It says a lot when the rookies are more aware of their surroundings than the veteran heroes...

Lonnie Machin has been speared to the tree, feet hanging two metres above the ground. His mask is moving as if it's his face, silently gasping in agony. The spear was thrust downward, and I think he's trying to push himself up the shaft to escape while it's getting lubricated with his blood and causing him to slip. He… Shouldn't be alive. Probably shouldn't still be bleeding either, unless…

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Wait, Lonnie in partial civvies, or in his full 'Anarky' regalia? Because there is a spiritual difference under these conditions, I wouldn't wonder.

"Pots gnitruh flesruoy!"

Zatanna runs after Timothy, who's reached the base of the tree and is looking for a way to climb up.

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It could entirely be a state of mind, Lonnie having discarded his 'heroic foolishness' leaving it pinned to a tree while he goes off as himself to do 'real' things.

"T'nod eid!"

Okay, they can-.

Next to me, Hiro is staring in horror.

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Yeah, just because it looks like they got this doesn't mean you can't help, OL.

I-. Don't-.

What would Alan do?

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Help. Because he's that sort of man from that sort of era.

Ah.

I trigger my armour's flight system, launching myself at the tree, holstering my gun as I go. I slam into the tree next to him and grab the branches with my legs and free arm.

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Cutting the knot, as it were. Not trying to work from below, but attacking the problem from above.

"Uuh."

"Zatanna, get ready to catch!" Knife to the spear behind him… And enchanted wood beats science fiction knife. Fine.

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Ah, Magic, the ultimate 'fuck you' to conceptual sharpness.

"Netfos dnuorg!"

I cut into the tree, slicing wedges out easily enough. Lonnie appears to spot what I'm doing and braces himself. There, I can see the head of the spear, cut from beneath-.

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Because with nothing to hold it in place...

Lonnie drops, spear clasped through his chest. He turns to his side as he hits the ground, trying to prevent further trauma to the spear wound. But instead of a heavy impact, the ground undulates underneath him like a bouncy castle. Ripples expand across the surrounding field, vanishing into the distance as the point of impact returns to normal level.

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...How fitting given the cartooniness of everything else around here.

I push off the tree, using my thrusters to slow my descent in case that was a Lonnie-only thing.

Zatanna's next to Lonnie. She pulls his costume jacket away from the site of the wound.

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Gently, mind. Admittedly, unless the shaft is covered in splinters or spikes, the only damage now would come from twisting, not grinding.

"Hself stink rehtegot sa eht raeps sevael!"

She then.. pulls, the spear slowly sliding free of Lonnie's body as Timothy helps prop him up.

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At least it wasn't a Gae Bolg or the like. Barbs on the head would have made that harder.

I land next to Hiro. "You alright?"

He nods, eyes wide and staring at the field chirurgy.

"You're clearly not alright. He's alive, and he's going to stay that way. Have you never seen a wound like that before?"

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He's a teenage boy, and not used to fieldwork. Of course he's off his game.

"Not-not in person. On the screens, yes, not… Like this."

"Love to be able to tell you this is the last time you will, but that would be a lie. Think about that when we get out of here."

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It's cruel, but a necessary cruelty.

Fitting that Hiro be icked out by seeing real wounds in the flesh. You can watch all the violent videogames or gory 'Rekt' videos you like, desensitise yourself to violence on a screen, but the real thing is far more intense. Hopefully they can heal Anarky up and find out what's going on, even find a hint as to how to ending it.

 

[Vaermina]

"Yes, once that I know about. But he doesn't have the same sort of relationship that I have with her. Or… Maybe that's the pride talking. No, it's-. I hatehatehate having my mind altered like this."

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You've been walking around with your mind altered for years, this is just returning you to sanity.