With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Can you give us any hints if this episode will be viking related?

 

[Mr Zoat]

I know that they didn't get their starbolt powers in the paragon side because he rescued them before the experiment could happen, while the renegade was dealing with the A-L equation the experiment happened.

Do they have additional powers in the renegade side outside of their starbolts?

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Same as the comics: booster strength and endurance.

Can you give us any hints if this episode will be viking related?

Click to shrink...

It won't.

 

[Darko]

Did paragon Diana adopt Match?
Did she do it to help Clark, he seems like he wants to have some kind of relationship with him(more like brothers than sons, like canon Kon and Kal), but it would be difficult to explain where he came from in his identity as Clark Kent?
What is renegade Match up to and is he as interested in kryptonian culture as renegade Kon is, or is he more interested in themysciran culture like the paragon Kon?

You said that even non-new gods divinities can Awaken people, but is it possible for non-gods, that is those that aren't divine, to Awaken people?
If it is possible would they have to be powerful magic users, do they need to perform some type of ritual or can they simply touch a person and Awaken them like renegade does?
Is it possible for them to awaken themselves, either unknowingly (doing some ritual to gain power and becoming Awakened by accident) or knowingly (performing a ritual to gain power but knowing that it will be divine in nature)?
Can a magician who looks at the soul of a god(either a regular earth,or alien one, or a new god) alter themselves so as to gain godlike powers, like Dr Mist made himself immortal when copying some of the White Entity and how it exists?

 

[Pinklestia]

Though there is a chance that this will make him sane enough that they can finally execute him for all of those murders he committed, including those of his college mentor, great grandmother, grandmother and father.

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How does that work if he was insane or under the influence while he committed those murders?

If the legal defence of being under the influence when a crime was committed is accepted, then how being sane can get him the death penalty if any defence lawyer can argue that he was more stoned than a herbil used to test cosmetics?

 

[Mr Zoat]

British pride.

Did paragon Diana adopt Match?

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Yes.

Did she do it to help Clark, he seems like he wants to have some kind of relationship with him(more like brothers than sons, like canon Kon and Kal), but it would be difficult to explain where he came from in his identity as Clark Kent?

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That was probably part of why.

What is renegade Match up to and is he as interested in kryptonian culture as renegade Kon is, or is he more interested in themysciran culture like the paragon Kon?

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He isn't as in to Themyscira as Kon is, but he doesn't have a much stronger attachment to kryptonian culture either.

You said that even non-new gods divinities can Awaken people, but is it possible for non-gods, that is those that aren't divine, to Awaken people?

If it is possible would they have to be powerful magic users, do they need to perform some type of ritual or can they simply touch a person and Awaken them like renegade does?

Is it possible for them to awaken themselves, either unknowingly (doing some ritual to gain power and becoming Awakened by accident) or knowingly (performing a ritual to gain power but knowing that it will be divine in nature)?

Can a magician who looks at the soul of a god(either a regular earth,or alien one, or a new god) alter themselves so as to gain godlike powers, like Dr Mist made himself immortal when copying some of the White Entity and how it exists?

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That's basically how it usually works. Awakening as the Renegade does it is just more digital rather than analogue.

How does that work if he was insane or under the influence while he committed those murders?

If the legal defence of being under the influence when a crime was committed is accepted, then how being sane can get him the death penalty if any defence lawyer can argue that he was more stoned than a herbil used to test cosmetics?

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The permanent change to his neural chemistry came about as a result of repeated exposure to experimental batches. Prior to going full supervillain he was more careful.

 

[Sceptic]

How does that work if he was insane or under the influence while he committed those murders?

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If you commit a crime while under the influence of something that impairs (and is known to impair) your judgement, and if you self-administered it, then as I understand it you're still considered responsible for your actions.

 

[Whenever Possible]

Does he actually need a pin? I know it's more visceral, but wouldn't it be more practical to just use a pin construct? Or teleport blood?

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It's a magic artifact. Observing the proper forms is important

 

[Coda]

normal fear-causing stimulate

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Usually "stimuli" unless there's some dialect variation I'm not familiar with.

 

[DrThoth]

That's basically how it usually works. Awakening as the Renegade does it is just more digital rather than analogue.

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How similar would Nabu's soul (prior to brain death or orange assimilation) have been to that of a New God? As an alien Lord of Order, I suppose his soul is fundamentally different to Earth-based spiritual entities, which also prompts me to ask if Old God souls are metaphysically the same as New God ones, with the latter just having more permanent physical/corporeal forms as well. Celestial Archer could use God-speech, so I'd assume they're not that different. None of the angels ever use it though, as far as I'm aware, and I'm not fully clear as to why that is, though I appreciate that canon welding all the multiple cosmologies of DC into a perfectly coherent whole is a bit too much to ask for.

 

[Darko]

DrThoth or Mr Zoat can you give us an example of Tao using godspeech?

 

[DrThoth]

DrThoth or Mr Zoat can you give us an example of Tao using godspeech?

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In the Renegade chapters based on the canon season 1 finale, where the Team discovers that the League has been brainwashed by Starro-tech (I believe that would be Episode 23 or 24 in this fic). Renegade, a recently Awakened Zatanna and Tao sense something awry with Batman's metaphysique and hold a Godspeech conversation to secretly plan an attack to free him and the rest of the League present. The other Awakened members of the Team didn't pick up on it because they weren't as advanced as Zatanna due to either being even more recent (Aqualad) or less mystic/spiritual at the time of Awakening (Artemis) or both (Kid Flash).

Which prompts me to ask, did Renegade ever Awaken Cassandra Cain? Or is that on hold till she's more used to human society? I don't remember what she's up to.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Usually "stimuli" unless there's some dialect variation I'm not familiar with.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

How similar would Nabu's soul (prior to brain death or orange assimilation) have been to that of a New God?

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Compared to what? It would look fairly different.

As an alien Lord of Order, I suppose his soul is fundamentally different to Earth-based spiritual entities, which also prompts me to ask if Old God souls are metaphysically the same as New God ones, with the latter just having more permanent physical/corporeal forms as well.

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Old Gods arise from the Dream and intrude upon the material world.

Celestial Archer could use God-speech, so I'd assume they're not that different. None of the angels ever use it though, as far as I'm aware, and I'm not fully clear as to why that is, though I appreciate that canon welding all the multiple cosmologies of DC into a perfectly coherent whole is a bit too much to ask for.

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Angels don't exactly have free will as we understand it.

In the Renegade chapters based on the canon season 1 finale, where the Team discovers that the League has been brainwashed by Starro-tech (I believe that would be Episode 23 or 24 in this fic). Renegade, a recently Awakened Zatanna and Tao sense something awry with Batman's metaphysique and hold a Godspeech conversation to secretly plan an attack to free him and the rest of the League present. The other Awakened members of the Team didn't pick up on it because they weren't as advanced as Zatanna due to either being even more recent (Aqualad) or less mystic/spiritual at the time of Awakening (Artemis) or both (Kid Flash).

Which prompts me to ask, did Renegade ever Awaken Cassandra Cain? Or is that on hold till she's more used to human society? I don't remember what she's up to.

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No. That's a decision he's leaving to Scott and Barda.

 

[Darko]

Cassandra Cain was adopted by Scott and Barda Free in the renegade timeline?

Will we see Cassandra Cain in the paragon side, also when is Jason Todd going to make an apperance in the paragon side?

Will paragon OL have an encounter with the Joker in the future, and if so what year?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Cassandra Cain was adopted by Scott and Barda Free in the renegade timeline?

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Yes.

Will we see Cassandra Cain in the paragon side,

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I have no plans to use her.

also when is Jason Todd going to make an appearance in the paragon side?

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At some point. Not sure.

Will paragon OL have an encounter with the Joker in the future, and if so what year?

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He'll reappear, but not for quite a while.

 

[Diraniola]

Is it possible for them to awaken themselves, either unknowingly (doing some ritual to gain power and becoming Awakened by accident) or knowingly (performing a ritual to gain power but knowing that it will be divine in nature)?

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There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here. Where magic is concerned in DC, divine tends to mean connected to the angelic host and the Source. New gods, despite the name, are neither related to the jeudo-christian God or the "jumped up elementals" that make up more polytheistic pantheons. Instead, new gods have a complex soul structure that they can directly manipulate to an extent and can subtly affect the world around them.

 

[Darko]

This isn't DC canon but a fanfic.
The renegade mentioned that new gods connect to the Source and their souls form structures that make them gods of particular things.
Paragon mentioned that Eriss soul is made of earth magic as its core and has a chaos magic outer.
The soul is used to manipulate magic, so technically new gods and their divine counterparts from other worlds share that in common.
Non new gods seem to be connected to the Dreaming and bind themselves to the concepts floating around there rather than to the Source like new gods do.
Angels have been referred as source functionaries/gods by themselves and other people like Ragnar and use theurgy that may be connected to the Source. I even have a theory that the Abrahamic god may be a theurgist whose powers were taken to eleven, Highfather could talk to the Source in the comics and the renegade said that the people of earth do not technically worship the source but something else.

 

[Grimnar]

"I have certain beliefs about the way the universe should operate."

"We've all got those. You still aren't-." Her eyes widen.

"What?"

"Nine. Only nine of them left."

"The.. Guardians? Yes."

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I could have sworn it said earlier in the fic that there were either 11 or 12 guardians left. It was just after he got stewerts ring and was plundering the database (which I can't find again, because Zoat doesn't give chapters descriptions)

EDIT:

Found it. Control F would be a lot more helpful in this case if Zoat didn't have Eleven in his bloody sig.

Kon floats forwards a little. **How can you tell?**

**Too much space. There aren't enough Guardians left to need this much space even if they all got together in one place, and they don't do that anywhere but Oa. If it were recent, there would be headroom for the Green Lantern Honour Guard who'd be manning the ship.**

**How many Guardians are there?**

**A total of eleven actively participate in running the Corps. There might be others around, I don't know exactly what the membership requirements are.** I recognised some names on the list; Ganthet, Sayd and Appa Ali Apsa exist here. According to Lantern Stewart's ring the others mostly disdain the use of names. It only knew Sayd's because Ganthet once used it in Stewart's presence. The two of them appear to have the personalities I was expecting. Appa on the other hand appears to be some sort of social scientist. A quick check showed that he was frequently absent from briefing sessions.

Click to shrink...

 

[Mr Zoat]

14th March
13:08 GMT -6

Harleen regards me with fascination from the other side of the Belle Reve canteen table.

"Did it wyrk?"

"He spends his nights in absolute terror -and he consented to having an electroencephalograph attached so we can prove it- and wakes up raring to go. His behaviour has improved tremendously… He's asking to see the data we're gathering -which since it's medical data on him he's allowed to- but I don't see any reason not to."

"Except fuh the fact that he's obsessed with feyuh and this ain't gunna help."

"I'm not sure anything will. The various substances he's dosed himself with have altered the structure of his brain. I can't change it back without a 'before' image-. And that's pretty ethically questionable anyway. And so's fiddling around with neurons and hoping for the best."

She nods.

"The Caulder Method."

In the comics I-. Alright, in the one-off appearances Doom Patrol members had in comics I read, Dr Niles Caulder was the leader of a team of people whose superpowers came with adverse physical or psychological handicaps. In the original comics he got them back on their literal and metaphorical feet and led them in the fight against evil. That was retconned later into him having some sort of freak fetish and actually causing all of the events which caused their mutations and injuries, though that definitely wasn't the original intent.

The version here hasn't done any of that yet, though he has written extensively on superhuman psychology. I've read some of his work, and… Though we'd probably treat a lot of our patients in the same sort of way he's.. a bit more into enablement than I am.

"Not.. exactly. I'd like to fix Doctor Crane. I just don't think it's possible."

"What did Melinoë say abowd it awl?"

"I haven't spoken to her yet. If she was annoyed she could contact me. The very fact that Doctor Crane is still having nightmares strongly implies that she's not annoyed about it."

"An' the fact that you ain't havin 'em."

"I'm not actually sure if she can affect me through my wards. But if she couldn't and she was seriously annoyed I'm sure she'd find a way around it."

"How popular you think these things 're actually-"

My ring blinks.

"-gonna be?"

"I'm-" I raise my left hand slightly. "-sorry, but I have to take this."

She nods and shrugs.

"Orange Lantern Illustres, go ahead."

Guy's head appears.

"So are we doin' that whole title thing every time now?"

"You can if you like. I didn't check the caller ID."

He grins.

"Honor Guard Lantern Guy Darrin Gardner reporting in!" He looks thoughtful. "Oh, hey, that's right: ain't you supposed to say yer name when you do this?"

"How many Illustreses do you think we have?"

"We've got two, so…"

"Were you calling me because you're bored, or..?"

He nods, his expression growing more serious.

"Yeah. Y'know where you came through when you showed up in this universe?"

"I'm unlikely to forget."

"I was practicin' scanning fer stuff with my ring, and… Something screwy's goin' on."

"Can you narrow it down?"

"Ah… No." He winces slightly. "There's some kinda microscopic hole-."

I frown. It hasn't been my focus recently, but during my first few months I investigated my emergence point pretty thoroughly. "That wasn't there before."

"And I say microscopic, but if you kinda squint you can just about see the light comin' out right now."

"Is it getting bigger?"

"Oh, yeah. It's still not big, but-."

"Have you called Accomplished-?"

He rolls his eyes.

"What, you gonna try teachin' me how t' suck eggs next? Yeah, Physician an' Mist 're up here, an' Atom an' Bats are too. I didn't wanna freak out over nothin', but…"

"With you momentarily."

I close my left fist, cutting communication. So. Possible portal to Earth Prime opening up. I've got a message buoy ready to go if it actually is one-.

"You doin' okay?"

Harleen's switched from friendly chat mode to counsellor mode immediately.

"Yes. Home isn't my trigger." I slide my chair back and stand. "But this does warrant my personal attention. Excuse me."

"Shuwer. Let me know how it goes."

I raise my right hand to my forehead-

14th March
19:11 GMT

-and appear in near-Earth space. Ring?

Anomaly located.

I transition closer, looking around for Guy as I do so. He's… On the Watchtower, okay. He was right about the glow. I can see it with my unaided eyes, and-.

Anomaly growing.

The size of a full stop on a page to the size of a penny. To the size of a fifty pence. To the size of an old fifty pence. It's like a hole in the fabric of space, except that it doesn't match any of the dozen or so phenomena I know of that can look like that. It's red with darker patches, though I can't tell whether it's emitting the light itself or something on the other side is.

Fifty pence to hub cap and I'm backing up and armouring up.

"Orange Lantern Illustres to Justice League, I didn't do-"

Hub cap to sunshade.

"-anything. Should I retreat or attempt to contain?"

Sunshade to-. No, that's.. it, it's not growing-.

Something shoots out, the aperture wobbling and shrinking back in on itself. The object-. Woman, a blonde woman in a figure-hugging grey costume, which for-

I put an environmental shield around her.

-some reason covers her arms but leaves her legs bare. Her chest emblem is a red lightning bolt on a black triangle. Kryptonian? No, part kryptonian, badly burned and emitting a dozen different types of exotic radiation. Ring, drain.

Compliance.

"One injured human/kryptonian hybrid. Can I take her to the Fortress?"

"Supes says 'go for it'."

"On my way now."

 

[Mr Zoat]

I could have sworn it said earlier in the fic that there were either 11 or 12 guardians left. It was just after he got stewerts ring and was plundering the database (which I can't find again, because Zoat doesn't give chapters descriptions)

EDIT:

Found it. Control F would be a lot more helpful in this case if Zoat didn't have Eleven in his bloody sig.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Before anyone else gets it in:

IT'S NAZIS. #calledit #bitcheslovecannons #fuckmotheringvampire

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Specifically, Overgirl of Earth-10, where Nazis won World War II, and Superman is Overman.
(And I was just watching Hellsing Ultimate Abridged. Commentary later.)

 

[Flux Casey]

And that's pretty ethnically questionable

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Ethically.

 

[Queshire]

Hm? Is this a version of Supergirl from the obligatory Nazi parallel?

EDIT: Darn, Ninja'd

 

[Razorfloss]

Ooo Nazis this is going to be fun. Any Jewish heros on the league? I hope so that will be a fun conversation

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Harleen regards me with fascination from the other side of the Belle Reve canteen table.

"Did it wyrk?"

"He spends his nights in absolute terror -and he consented to having an electroencephalograph attached so we can prove it- and wakes up raring to go. His behaviour has improved tremendously… He's asking to see the data we're gathering -which since it's medical data on him he's allowed to- but I don't see any reason not to."

"Except fuh the fact that he's obsessed with feyuh and this ain't gunna help."

Click to shrink...

Oh god, Harleen's accent is thicker than maple syrup today. I can feel the English language's pain...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"I'm not sure anything will. The various substances he's dosed himself with have altered the structure of his brain. I can't change it back without a 'before' image-. And that's pretty ethnically questionable anyway. And so's fiddling around with neurons and hoping for the best."

She nods.

"The Caulder Method."

Click to shrink...

YEah, messing with people's brains makes for some iffy territory...

In the comics I-. Alright, in the one-off appearances Doom Patrol members had in comics I read, Dr Niles Caulder was the leader of a team of people whose superpowers came with adverse physical or psychological handicaps. In the original comics he got them back on their literal and metaphorical feet and led them in the fight against evil. That was retconned later into him having some sort of freak fetish and actually causing all of the events which caused their mutations and injuries, though that definitely wasn't the original intent.

The version here hasn't done any of that yet, though he has written extensively on superhuman psychology. I've read some of his work, and… Though we'd probably treat a lot of our patients in the same sort of way he's.. a bit more into enablement than I am.

Click to shrink...

So, he'd allow the Freaks to dress in costumes, though not allow them weapons?

"Not.. exactly. I'd like to fix Doctor Crane. I just don't think it's possible."

"What did Melinoë say abowd it awl?"

"I haven't spoken to her yet. If she was annoyed she could contact me. The very fact that Doctor Crane is still having nightmares strongly implies that she's not annoyed about it."

Click to shrink...

And presumably she's got no interest in him beyond the professinal, I hope...

"An' the fact that you aint haven't 'em."

"I'm not actually sure if she can affect me through my wards. But it she couldn't and she was serious annoyed I'm sure she'd find a way around it."

"How popular you think these things 're actually-"

Click to shrink...

You'd be surprised, I bet. There are a lot of people who'd probably try it at least once, because some people love being afraid. How many would try it again after that? Well...

My ring blinks.

"-gonna be?"

"I'm-" I raise my left hand slightly. "-sorry, but I have to take this."

Click to shrink...

Haha. The joy of always being on call...

She nods and shrugs.

"Orange Lantern Illustres, go ahead."

Guy's head appears.

"So are we doin' that whole title thing every time now?"

Click to shrink...

Ah, what's Guy need this time?

"You can if you like. I didn't check the caller ID."

He grins.

"Honor Guard Lantern Guy Darrin Gardner reporting in!" He looks thoughtful. "Oh, hey, that's right: ain't you supposed to say yer name when you do this?"

Click to shrink...

"Really, are we doing that now?" Ah, good-natured ribbing.

"How many Illustreses do you think we have?"

"We've got two, so…"

"Were you calling me because you're bored, or..?"

Click to shrink...

Hey, it's Guy. He might well have.

He nods, his expression growing more serious.

"Yeah. Y'know where you came through when you showed up in this universe?"

"I'm unlikely to forget."

"I was practicin' scanning fer stuff with my ring, and… Something screwy's goin' on."

Click to shrink...

"Define 'screwy'..."

"Can you narrow it down?"

"Ah… No." He winces slightly. "There's some kinda microscopic hole-."

Click to shrink...

... Okay, that qualifies as 'screwy'. Also 'concerning'...

I frown. It hasn't been my focus recently, but during my first few months I investigated my emergence point pretty thoroughly. "That wasn't there before."

"And I say microscopic, but if you kinda squint you can just about see the light comin' out right now."

Click to shrink...

Uh-oh. It just went from 'concerning' to 'alarming'...

"Is it getting bigger?"

"Oh, yeah. It's still not big, but-."

Click to shrink...

Should we call in Hinon?

"Have you called Accomplished-?"

He rolls his eyes.

"What, you gonna try teachin' me how t' suck eggs next? Yeah, Physician an' Mist 're up here, an' Atom an' Bats are too. I didn't wanna freak out over nothin', but…"

Click to shrink...

Extra-dimensional breaches are always worrying...

"With you momentarily."

I close my left fist, cutting communication. So. Possible portal to Earth Prime opening up. I've got a message buoy ready to go if it actually is one-.

"You doin' okay?"

Click to shrink...

And she sees the obvious possibility...

Harleen's switched from friendly chat mode to counsellor mode immediately.

"Yes. Home isn't my trigger." I slide my chair back and stand. "But this does warrant my personal attention. Excuse me."

"Shuwer. Let me know how it goes."

Click to shrink...

I suspect it'll sound like a hollywood Summer blockbuster...

I raise my right hand to my forehead-

14th March
19:11 GMT

-and appear in near-Earth space. Ring?

Anomaly located.

Click to shrink...

Well, time to commit Science! upon this anomaly...

I transition closer, looking around for Guy as I do so. He's… On the Watchtower, okay. He was right about the glow. I can see it with my unaided eyes, and-.

Anomaly growing.

Click to shrink...

Oh, dear, are we going to see the Crisis of Infinite Pauls already?

The size of a full stop on a page to the size of a penny. To the size of a fifty pence. To the size of an old fifty pence. It's like a hole in the fabric of space, except that it doesn't match any of the dozen or so phenomena I know of that can look like that. It's red with darker patches, though I can't tell whether it's emitting the light itself or because something on the other side is.

Fifty pence to hub cap and I'm backing up and armouring up.

Click to shrink...

Perfectly sensible. I would be observing from the other side... of the Moon.

"Orange Lantern Illustres to Justice League, I didn't do-"

Hub cap to sunshade.

"-anything. Should I retreat or attempt to contain?"

Click to shrink...

Something or someone is opening a door...

Sunshade to-. No, that's.. it, it's not growing-.

Something shoots out, the aperture wobbling and shrinking back in on itself. The object-. Woman, a blonde woman in a figure-hugging grey costume, which for-

I put an environmental shield around her.

Click to shrink...

Navigating the Bleed without a shiftship? Gutsy and painful...

-some reason covers her arms but leaves her legs bare. Her chest emblem is a red lightning bolt on a black triangle. Kryptonian? No, part kryptonian, badly burned and emitting a dozen different types of exotic radiation. Ring, drain.

Compliance.

"One injured human/kryptonian hybrid. Can I take her to the Fortress?"

Click to shrink...

And keep her secured, too. Amazed he didn't recognise her.

"Supes says 'go for it'."

"On my way now."

Click to shrink...

Seriously, remember to keep her safely contained.

And the meat of the episode begins. Things are going to get funky. Let's hope it's not going to get too messy.

Corrections:

But it she couldn't...

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But if she couldn't...

 

[Mr Zoat]

Ethically.

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Thank you, corrected.

Any Jewish heroes on the league?

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No.

Corrections: But if she couldn't...

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Darko]

When i asked if it was viking related i thought of Krieger. i really should have asked if it was nazi related.

 

[Rebu]

Ooo Nazis this is going to be fun. Any Jewish heros on the league? I hope so that will be a fun conversation

Click to shrink...

Doctor Mist is a black dude. Physician is Chinese.

 

[Handlewithcare]

He's surpisingly calm for someone emerging from the same spot he did.

For a moment I really thought we would get another SI and this would become a collaboration fic.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Oh. That's neat. Earth 10 had some interesting shit. Shame they kind of swept it under the rug with some really fucking lame cop outs.

She'll probably react pretty poorly to Mist, but she might do okay with Physician. Then again, she's well beyond a "normal" Nazi. She's a comic book Nazi.

Guess we should expect Nazi Superman, too. Though I'd be genuinely surprised if this went anywhere beyond, "lol, gold kryptonite spam".

 

[Ganurath]

Wait a minute... she'd only fallen though in Final Crisis, before. Is this a precursor to the Crisis of Infinite Pauls?