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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Ace Dreamer

    Ace Dreamer Questioning The Nature of our Realities

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    I've got a Dictionary of Philosophy, would that help? :)

    "Any discussion occurs across an interface between two mental models of the world, neither of which wants to change." :)
     
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  2. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

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    There’s no ‘cheat’ because in end, she’s a full fledged Alicorn. The enlightenment is one way of doing it, but no one said it’s the only proper way to do so. Simply because it’s not widespread or new doesn’t make it any less valid.

    The Fear Enlightenment the Terror Thing/Siskin hybrid went through was no less an enlightenment even if it wasn’t with his own initiative, but rather with OL guiding him.

    Thanks. Changed it.
     
  3. WereDragon

    WereDragon Bookwyrm

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    This shows a rather startling lack of insight on Grayven’s part. Celestia didn’t realise because unlike people who have seen the Equestria Girls movie she didn’t how it would turn out.

    Side note: I was rather under the impression that Cadance moved to Canterlot before Sunset got a look at the mirror. Indeed Cadance’s accension may well have been what prompted Sunset’s obsession in the first place. If nothing else than by informing her that it was possible.

    How limited. Just because not all magic is friendship does not mean that all friendships are not magical.

    In fairness to Twilight, she has every reason to not want Grayven anywhere near anyone she doesn’t want emotionally scarred and traumatised.
     
  4. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    If I correct it before you post then it doesn't count.
    Modified.
    Yes, but they're so far behind that there's not much point including them without complete retraining.
    They'd become slight ill, but unless they were allergic they should make a full recovery.
    It would be a start. It would be more than Celestia actually did.
    If she becomes an alicorn then she is tautologically qualified to become a alicorn. Are people who build their house rather than buying it unqualified homeowners?
     
  5. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Not once did Inmention Celestia. We were talking about Yoda.
     
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  6. FeepingCreature

    FeepingCreature Not too sore, are you?

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    My Little Pony: Friendship ⊂ Magic. :V
     
  7. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    The end on cheating on a test is still a test completed. The end on cheating in a race is still reaching the finish line. The end on cheating in an election is still an office assumed.

    The entire freaking point of cheating is to achieve a result without earning the outcome.

    And who gives a shit if the method is new or not as widespread?

    Princess Luna turned into Nightmare Moon because she thought no one liked her (and that's despite her being able to achieve the alicorn apotheosis in the first place), in this very last episode Sunset showed she has more issues than National Geographic.

    The issues that led to Shimmer's literal demonization in Equestria Girls.

    Hate and fear turned Sombra into a living shadow.

    Stygian's despair turned him into the Pony of Shadows.

    In the MLP franchise, the answer to "What could possibly go wrong when someone who doesn't have the required emotional wherewithall has godlike emotion based magical powers?" has been answered multiple times.
     
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  8. Jenuwine

    Jenuwine Making the rounds.

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    Enjoying the story as always but would really enjoy another couple warhammer fantasy vignettes; maybe even fully fleshing that one out; thought it was super interesting!
     
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  9. ForeverShogo

    ForeverShogo Not too sore, are you?

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    The friendship and enlightenment thing seems to be more a safeguard of Celestia's against someone with an evil personality becoming an Alicorn than an actual requirement.

    If anything, it seems like some ultimate expression of your special talent that is above and beyond what one would normally expect somehow triggers the transformation. Cadence just defeated and redeemed an evil bitch who had the power to steal the love of others and that was enough for her. She never learned any enlightenment bullshit or even received any tutelage from Celestia until after she transformed.

    I think Celestia and Luna had their transformations as some expression of their ability to move the sun and the moon.

    Celestia claims that Twilight's transformation is because she created a new form of magic when she completed Starswirl's spell. Not sure why Starswirl never changed when he supposedly created a bunch of the magic Equestria uses, and was one of the few unicorns that could handle sun and moon duties without burning out his magic, but whatever.

    And then you have Flurry Heart, who was literally born as an Alicorn. I somehow doubt she was born enlightened.

    So just do your special talent hard enough and you might turn into an Alicorn. If you didn't you weren't half as good as you thought you were at doing the thing that makes you special.
     
  10. Coda

    Coda Versed in the lewd.

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    The Danner formula has a genetic (or at least epigenetic) component. Equestrian ponies aren't anywhere CLOSE to humans.

    Grayven couldn't Awaken them either. They're not Earth life.

    Equality is a transitive relationship. (a = b) <=> (b = a). The set of integers is not equal to the set of real numbers, even though every integer is a real number.

    Could be, actually. Building the house doesn't automatically mean you're its owner -- indeed, MOST people who build houses are building them for OTHER people. And if you build a house for yourself on land you don't own, then you're a squatter, not a homeowner.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
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  11. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Wonder if renegade can manipulate the souls of other people who are not from Earth, or an Earth where the White Entity doesn't reside?
    Not a full Awakening, but just some soul modifications.
     
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  12. Chaoswind

    Chaoswind Lord of nonsense

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    I did not and considered them mostly a waste of time.


    Well said, emotional maturity has nothing to do with being an alicorn, same as enlightenment. They are at best, ways to TURN into one, but you can BE one without them and most certainly there are other ways to become one as well.
     
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  13. nobodez

    nobodez Bringer of Context

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    I would have used “⊊” instead, to indicate that it’s a proper subset, rather than the ambiguity of “⊂” which can either stand for subset OR proper subset, but otherwise, a good meme, gentlepony.
     
  14. Siskulous

    Siskulous Know what you're doing yet?

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    When is Grayven NOT a dick? I'm pretty sure he doesn't know how to be anything else.
     
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  15. WereDragon

    WereDragon Bookwyrm

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    When being a father.
     
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  16. Chaoswind

    Chaoswind Lord of nonsense

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    When he handles children, even shitty ones.

    Disclaimer: they have to BE children, looking like one isn't enough.
     
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  17. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Wonder how Raul would be like around children?
    We know he doesn't have problem killing ones that are sufficiently evil, but what about if he tried to adopt any, or had them with Komandr?
    While renegade is a surprisingly good parent i don't think Raul and Kom should be allowed to raise children, not without Auntie Kori around at least.
    One is powered by rage and the other has... weeellll.....issues.
     
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  18. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

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    It doesn’t matter whether you explicitly mentioned Celestia or not, the conversation was about her. Putting Yoda and Dumbles at the end makes them seem like examples rather than the topic, which is what they appear to be on a second read.

    Plus, I don’t see a response to any of the pints I made.

    Oh, and btw, Dumbly wasn’t any kind of reasonable mentor for Harry, he is literally Gendo Ikari but friendlier.

    Except alicornisation isn’t a test now, is it? It’s simply a state of being. You can get there any number of ways, and as long as they don’t have drawbacks, they’re all equally valid.

    As for responsible use of power, I’d say sunset is quite qualified in the use of her power as an individual after Grayven’s lessons on being a responsible metahuman, since being responsible involves being aware of the consequences of your actions. Now, keep in mind my only exposure to MLP:FiM is this story and a crack fic I read a while back, but Celestia of all people does not seem to be doing so hot in that regard. As a ruler, she might be all sorts of awesome, but on the interpersonal level, she’s all kind’s of whack.
     
  19. AidanMorgan

    AidanMorgan Essentially Overworked

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    Issues?

    Blackfire doesn't have issues, Blackfire has subscriptions.
     
  20. Ace Dreamer

    Ace Dreamer Questioning The Nature of our Realities

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    From the sounds of it, one of the most effective things Grayven could do in this setting is to set-up the PHS - Pony Health Service... And make quite sure it has an effective (free for all ponies) mental health aspect... (Which, the NHS arguably doesn't have.)

    As the various ponies who've been empowered, by their own work, or accident, frequently look to have mental health issues this would look to be a major public good, and, as an act of 'Friendship', should get support from Celestia, etc...

    In fact, anywhere there are super-powered beings this could be argued as being a smart move...
     
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  21. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    In Stygian's case it was purely a result of being physically attacked by his six closest friends. Until that happened, yes, he felt that he wasn't pulling his weight but he was working on fixing that it a rational and methodical way.
     
  22. Ace Dreamer

    Ace Dreamer Questioning The Nature of our Realities

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    Take a pony through the portal, so you get a human, Danner-ize, bring back. Study what changes have occurred to the pony (assuming that they remain improved)? If I recall right, the formulae worked on (Earth) lab rats and mice, as well as dogs, so being generally mammalian might be enough...
     
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  23. DrThoth

    DrThoth I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Have we seen Danner formula mixed with Venom Buster? Renegade couldn't use the former because he'd already Awakened before he discovered it (and I suppose he never thought to do a global ring-scan to locate other sources of the formula, which would have led to him finding Hugo Danner), and I think the same goes for Tawny/Michael, the only other Venom Buster-enhanced individual around.

    What would happen if Renegade had Dannered Circe before Awakening her? Awwakening enhances the most 'special' aspects of you, and I think that her magic would still rank higher in that regard than her physical strength/stamina. Or would her magic aptitude be increased at a slower rate because the Awakening would also be occupied with boosting her Danner-strength?
     
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  24. DAT_NOOB

    DAT_NOOB Accused of writing in a far away land

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    getting jacked it a state of being, using steroids to do it is cheating.
    I'm unfamiliar with MLP lore but I'd assume that people that aren't born alicorns or aren't happy-go-lucky types might get turned into monsters/evil. like Psykers in 40k if you aren't careful or covered in holy symbols you turn into a chaos spawn.
     
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  25. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Nope. Flim and Flam and that earth pony who ran a resort were pretty bad and completely failed to turn into monsters.
     
  26. Aeess

    Aeess I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    The SI mentioned that Blockbuster does work very well with the Danner formula, I'd assume adding Venom would help too.

    Likely, yes to the second one, at least that's the reason Renegade gave for not using thr Danner formula on Green Arrow.
     
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  27. DAT_NOOB

    DAT_NOOB Accused of writing in a far away land

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    I meant for being a alicorn rather than being a pony.
     
  28. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    1. It absolutely does matter, because I was responding to someone talking about why Yoda is a bad teacher. So your response about something entirely different is just bad arguments.

    2. Since you refused to do me the respect of responding to what I was talking about, and changed the topic to Celestia, I didnt give you the respect of responding to what you were talking about.

    3. What an absolute load of shit. This doesn't even need refuting. It's been done often enough.
     
  29. TheMidnightRook

    TheMidnightRook Well worn.

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    None of those attempted to consume an energy field larger than their head though, so it's not exactly a fair comparison.
     
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  30. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

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    Except, doping has proven drawbacks such as health problems, etc. along with the fact that being an alicorn is in no way related to a competitive sport wherein using effort has value in an off itself.

    Literally nowhere has that been implied in this fic.

    1. Looking back I see that you were actually referring to Yoda. It’s my mistake. But that in no way invalidates my arguements.

    2. Right... an honest mistake = arguing in bad faith? Wtf

    3. What in hell... Dumbledore knew from the beginning that Harry would have to die, he explicitly put him with the Duddleys so that, and I’m paraphrasing here, wouldn’t develop a big head! He wanted to make 100% sure that Harry would accept his death at Voldemort’s hands. He looked for a backup plan for Harry in the Deathly Hallows, sure, but he would have gone through with his convoluted plan regardless. He only chose to reveal this after making sure that Harry and Voldy got a nice rivalry going. Just because he’s a manipulative bastard doesn’t make him evil. Do me the courtesy of being able to comprehend marginally complex character motivations.
     
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