With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Senevri]

Come now... There's no need to cast doubt on how prolific the good doctor has been. Why must you insult his work so?

Click to shrink...

I never heard him doing anything to Estonia.... and even if he did do something truly global, I doubt all countries bothered to charge him with something. Some countries might not have even existed at the time.

Frankly, Sivana should just have built an auto-pardoning machine if that was his goal.

 

[Agent Orange]

It's amusing that Renegade and Paragon mirror each other in so many ways. One is a family man bachelor, the other's dating but with no plans for kids. One is close to their League and Team, the other is.. not. One refuses to modify himself for relatively odd reasons, the other hit the power-up button with his face repeatedly... And they support opposing Presidential Candidates.

Click to shrink...

Um... I agree with all of these but this one. Both OL and Gray are (relatively) close to the Team [you could argue that Gray's not spending time with the Team but considering that most of them are New Gods you can't say he's any less invested than OL - "I don't make friends I make investments." They are all part of his... I wanna say 'Peerage' but that's Highschool DxD talking. They are all tied to him on a conceptual level because he made them into New Gods.] and... 'having working relationship' with the League at best?

I guess OL's nominally part of the Team and equally nominally taking orders from the League but... that's because he's willing to humour them more than anything else.

One refuses to modify himself for relatively odd reasons, the other hit the power-up button with his face repeatedly.

Click to shrink...

This. So much this. You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Ardy]

My father taught law and lectured me on these points, so yeah, I know the specifics, but I didn't feel like giving a full thesis-level post and decided they can be lumped together for the purposes of discussing here and now. Also, from a personal standpoint, I disagree with retributive punishment as a foundational element for jailing individuals.

If you feel like this subject needs a better summary than I've given and want to include more technical details, feel free to do so.

Edit: For the sake of completion, I went back and added a note about retributive punishment.

Click to shrink...

I would but I have a paper to write and I think the mods would frown upon me just posting the whole thing here and asking you all to check for typos... probably.

Man, I wish I had a power ring to check my grammar.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Um... I agree with all of these but this one. Both OL and Gray are (relatively) close to the Team [you could argue that Gray's not spending time with the Team but considering that most of them are New Gods you can't say he's any less invested than OL - "I don't make friends I make investments." They are all part of his... I wanna say 'Peerage' but that's Highschool DxD talking. They are all tied to him on a conceptual level because he made them into New Gods.] and... 'having working relationship' with the League at best?

I guess OL's nominally part of the Team and equally nominally taking orders from the League but... that's because he's willing to humour them more than anything else.

Click to shrink...

Hmm, yes. Good point, I've modified that part of the statement.

 

[Prince Charon]

If only they'd treated them like they did.

Click to shrink...

Depending on the writer (to the point that one must pick which writer or writers to ignore, to have consistency), it seems that most of the Jedi did treat the clones as people, at least in Legends.

 

[Ngamer11]

This might be the wake up call that the US government needs to realize that Paul isn't someone you can mess around with. I feel like, unlike with the Renegade, Paul was still seen as a B-lister that's friends with the Justice League. Learning what he can really do and his connections will make him a much more serious ally/threat.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Depending on the writer (to the point that one must pick which writer or writers to ignore, to have consistency), it seems that most of the Jedi did treat the clones as people, at least in Legends.

Click to shrink...

Did they lead armies of slaves? If 'yes', they fail the test.

 

[Ganurath]

Are any of Sivana's crimes at the state level, rather than federal?

 

[DrThoth]

Does Paragon not remember anything about Father Time? I feel like that should be a concern, even if tabled at the moment because of the Sheeda.

 

[Darko]

Does Paragon not remember anything about Father Time?

Click to shrink...

Probably.

Though remember that Father Time isn't exactly a character that most DC comics readers would recognize.

 

[Valint]

There are upwards of 170 countries, and as it is they rarely agree unanimously on anything, ever, and this is as controversial as it gets. You'd have much better luck trying help Sisyphus with his rock.

Click to shrink...

It's probably worth noting that a presidential pardon only covers federal crimes, and a lot of Sivana's crimes (including most or all of his murders) would be state crimes.

If he wants something legally binding (and assuming he's operated in a lot of different states), he would need to get a pardon from each and every state governor as well.

 

[Darko]

It's probably worth noting that a presidential pardon only covers federal crimes, which doesn't include murder.

If he wants something legally binding (and assuming he's operated in a lot of different states), he would need to get a pardon from each and every state governor as well.

Click to shrink...

He may already know this and just wants the president to sort it all out with the various governors.

 

[jasonh23761]

We follow the presidential aide into one of the bunker's meeting rooms, and I note with approval that in addition to the Secret Service agents on duty there are also a couple of Atlantean wizards and… Lance Corporal Reid, staff in hand. I suppose that's about as covered as they can get, though to be honest 'Specialist Lance' isn't all that threatening without his god-tier upgrade.

Click to shrink...

Relevent meme.

A minor thing, @MrZoat but as a US Marine, Lance Corporal Reid would never be promoted to Specialist, which is an Army rank. For the Marines, Lance Corporal (E-3) promotes directly to Corporal (E-4), whereas in the Army Private First Class (E-3) promotes directly to Specialist (E-4) and then it's a lateral promotion to Corporal (E-4). To make things more confusing, the rank of Private First Class (E-2) exists in the Marines. In neither service is Specialist Lance a rank.

That's my bit of sillyness from across the pond. Nice chapter, now back to OWB I go!

 

[Idkusername]

It's probably worth noting that a presidential pardon only covers federal crimes, and a lot of Sivana's crimes (including most or all of his murders) would be state crimes.

If he wants something legally binding (and assuming he's operated in a lot of different states), he would need to get a pardon from each and every state governor as well.

Click to shrink...

Is someone counting how many times this has been brought up in this thread?

 

[Sockmonkey]

His children are still alive and this was probably not the first time someone tried to kill them, so he may not be all that mad about it because he's used to it.

Click to shrink...

Nah, remember that they generally tangle with Captain Marvel, who plays nice.

 

[Darko]

Nah, remember that they generally tangle with Captain Marvel, who plays nice.

Click to shrink...

But they do also tangle with other people on occasion, like they apparently did with China in this story, and I doubt the Great Ten play nice.

 

[Coda]

Wait, was Vaermina just right about something? Cheezy petes, I need to sit down..

Click to shrink...

It happens from time to time. More often than you might expect, even.

Lance Corporal Reid,

Click to shrink...

Har har, clever choice of rank.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

It happens from time to time. More often than you might expect, even.

Click to shrink...

Wait...Vaermina's still around?

Oh....Oooooooh, THAT's who "Show ignored content" is. It's been so long, I'd actually forgotten.

Anyway, to the chapter.

You know, this is one of the hardest things I think, for me. The idea of what I would do if I had universe level super powers like a power ring, and had to deal with politics.

Like, the idea would actually be scary. I really don't think I could put up with those people.

The US President is often called the most powerful man in the world. Yet I, with my power ring, could liquify him. I'm not saying it would be a good idea....just that it'd be in the forefront of my head the second he annoyed me. I have a really hard time with people weaker than me being very arrogant or obnoxious towards me. I just got used to the mutual respect and kindness of the Martial arts world, that at times, it's a culture shock.

From reading this story, I've honestly been inspired to do my own take. But considering how busy I am at my new job, and how much I hate typing. I've been given pause. Further given pause when I ponder my own reaction to the events OL goes through and honestly? I'm not sure someone would want to read about me and how I'd react.

There have been so many times, and to be fair, in this chapter there were NONE of them, when, had I been OL, I'd of blasted the offending person into chunks. So what to do then? If I'm being honest in writing an SI, I know what he would do. Or do I warp him until he really isn't me anymore?

It's an issue to be sure.

As for the Captain Marvel villain getting a pardon....meh. I have no opinions because I'm not super up to date on his character. I'm only mentally comparing his super science to OL's struggles with his power ring and once again pondering why OL's ring seems to suck so hard in comparison to the other gear he carries.

But this is just a division between Zoat and myself. To me, as an author, the ring would be enough. Zoat likes to play with other things. Which is okay, don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to complain.

I've just been jonesing for some super hero action, and am tempted, once more, to try my own hand at this. Not that I could ever match the update schedule. I don't even know where Zoat gets the time or motivation.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Relevent meme.

A minor thing, @MrZoat but as a US Marine, Lance Corporal Reid would never be promoted to Specialist, which is an Army rank. For the Marines, Lance Corporal (E-3) promotes directly to Corporal (E-4), whereas in the Army Private First Class (E-3) promotes directly to Specialist (E-4) and then it's a lateral promotion to Corporal (E-4). To make things more confusing, the rank of Private First Class (E-2) exists in the Marines. In neither service is Specialist Lance a rank.

That's my bit of sillyness from across the pond. Nice chapter, now back to OWB I go!

Click to shrink...

I didn't realise the Marine Corps had an actual rank for people with super powers. Now I feel silly.

I'd... Give OWB a little while. The caps system is now even less helpful and even more annoying, and several things flat out don't work.

 

[nobodez]

All of this is still shit-tier reasoning for someone who lost a loved one and has to watch the mad man who murdered them get off free of all charges.

Click to shrink...

But, see, he's already effectively free on all charges, and has been for at least as long as Paragon has known him, what with the whole "living on Venus" thing going for him.

Yes, that's not an excuse, but it's how things are, and there's little to no chance of him being captured and brought to justice, whatever form that might take, in the foreseeable future.

And since it happened in 1978, it's outside of the 20 or 25 year limit of current events here on QQ, so I can mention that Roman Polanski is a fugitive from justice in the United States, has been for over 40 years, and there's no chance he'll submit to justice despite an Interpol Red Notice for his extradition.

 

[Vaermina]

I didn't realise the Marine Corps had an actual rank for people with super powers. Now I feel silly.

I'd... Give OWB a little while. The caps system is now even less helpful and even more annoying, and several things flat out don't work.

Click to shrink...

They do... They are called SEAL's...

 

[Darko]

Wait...Vaermina's still around?

Click to shrink...

Sadly yes.

Oh....Oooooooh, THAT's who "Show ignored content" is. It's been so long, I'd actually forgotten.

Click to shrink...

Lucky you.

But, see, he's already effectively free on all charges, and has been for at least as long as Paragon has known him, what with the whole "living on Venus" thing going for him.

Yes, that's not an excuse, but it's how things are, and there's little to no chance of him being captured and brought to justice, whatever form that might take, in the foreseeable future.

And since it happened in 1978, it's outside of the 20 or 25 year limit of current events here on QQ, so I can mention that Roman Polanski is a fugitive from justice in the United States, has been for over 40 years, and there's no chance he'll submit to justice despite an Interpol Red Notice for his extradition.

Click to shrink...

Sivana also tends, well tended, to pick fights with Captain Marvel, who is a League member, and can call on them to help him capture the evil old Doc, and some of them may actually be able to do that.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

They do... They are called SEAL's...

Click to shrink...

SEALS are Navy, not Marines. The closest USMC equivalent is probably Delta Force.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Well, considering the crimes committed by DCAU Lex, whom was a bit less public about his crimes until it spilled over into direct brawls in the streets with the League, and He got a Pardon for dealing with the Lords with a 'no powers for you' gun. He did have Superman, the guy he was actively attempting to murder, be the one asking for it. Maybe the Pres would feel better about the request coming from Captain Marvel himself. Don't think he had quite the (obvious) body count at the time, and had a better press presence.

 

[Notreallythere]

I'll take theological. He's clearly the son of Satanus and Best!Spider and therefore should be immune to consequences.

Click to shrink...

As a materialist, his contributions to the advancement of the species are great enough that he should be pardoned, lured into a false sense of security and then harvested for the perturbed scientist gray mater based Neural^2 network.

 

[jasonh23761]

My turn to feel a bit silly I think, ah well I'm used to it.

As for OWB, yeah a fair few things are a tad broken and it's been a bit of an adjustment, but new content and the fact I lack reliable internet (except for my phone) right now means I'm stuck between OWB and rewatching what movies I have saved on my laptop.

Ah well, I'm still really enjoying the update. Lanius and crack pairing waifu is awesome. Plus Katherine Torni and the Alamo chapter are just a lot of fun. Finally, the Ironmongers know the truth that the red ones do indeed go faster.

 

[jasonh23761]

SEALS are Navy, not Marines. The closest USMC equivalent is probably Delta Force.

Click to shrink...

The Marine Raiders (MARSOC) do exist but no one ever remembers them. A sad rah for all the rehomed tankers.

 

[Mr Zoat]

The Marine Raiders (MARSOC) do exist but no one ever remembers them. A sad rah for all the rehomed tankers.

Click to shrink...

I prefer the Marine Air Corps, by virtue of them being the navy's army's air force.

Ah well, I'm still really enjoying the update. Lanius and crack pairing waifu is awesome. Plus Katherine Torni and the Alamo chapter are just a lot of fun. Finally, the Ironmongers know the truth that the red ones do indeed go faster.

Click to shrink...

The Alamo Chapter aren't my favourite people. I played Rio Grande as Rosado and they... Weren't very helpful, despite Rosado having worked with them for years. I literally have focuses based on what great friends we are, but they just weren't feeling it.

Seriously, you couldn't spare one power armour division? You had do give me those dopey two-demo support divisions?

And the most interesting factions don't even get a unique focus tree! Nothing for Robot City and their dating simulator AI overlady, and nothing for the Bound Choir and their immortal psychic gestalt. And the stupid caps system keeps making me disband units.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

You know, this is one of the hardest things I think, for me. The idea of what I would do if I had universe level super powers like a power ring, and had to deal with politics.

Like, the idea would actually be scary. I really don't think I could put up with those people.

The US President is often called the most powerful man in the world. Yet I, with my power ring, could liquify him. I'm not saying it would be a good idea....just that it'd be in the forefront of my head the second he annoyed me. I have a really hard time with people weaker than me being very arrogant or obnoxious towards me. I just got used to the mutual respect and kindness of the Martial arts world, that at times, it's a culture shock.

Click to shrink...

Do you habitually murder/assault every rude customer, every child that cry's loudly in the street, every teenager who acts like an uppity prick, every boomer who condescendingly states "back in my day" simply because you are bigger and stronger than them? No? then I'm sure you can handle it. (you should believe in yourself more friend)

As for the US President being the most powerful man in the world, there are different types of 'power' for example, I believe you have far more martial arts training than me and are more fit than I am therefore in a fistfight you would kill me, however, if I hit you with an 18 wheeler going 40kmph or a .45-70 first, suddenly you lose that fistfight.

Wait
From reading this story, I've honestly been inspired to do my own take. But considering how busy I am at my new job, and how much I hate typing. I've been given pause. Further, given pause when I ponder my own reaction to the events OL goes through and honestly? I'm not sure someone would want to read about me and how I'd react.

There have been so many times, and to be fair, in this chapter there were NONE of them, when, had I been OL, I'd of blasted the offending person into chunks. So what to do then? If I'm being honest in writing an SI, I know what he would do. Or do I warp him until he really isn't me anymore?

It's an issue to be sure.

Click to shrink...

Don't worry about writing to the update schedule, just follow it when you can, if you want to write a story write it for an audience of one (you) and do it because it's fun.

Personally, I've written (and still am writing if I'm honest) an SI back on SV and stayed mostly true to myself... you can do a murder, death, kill power fantasy in a setting if you want I'm sure there are some people that would be interested.

Wait
But this is just a division between Zoat and myself. To me, as an author, the ring would be enough. Zoat likes to play with other things. Which is okay, don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to complain.

Click to shrink...

Can I ask what you mean by, "The ring would be enough" because if you are in a DC setting there are lots of things that can overpower a power ring.

Or do you mean that you would be satisfied with the level of power?

 

[jasonh23761]

I prefer the Marine Air Corps, by virtue of them being the navy's army's air force.

The Alamo Chapter aren't my favourite people. I played Rio Grande as Rosado and they... Weren't very helpful, despite Rosado having worked with them for years. I literally have focuses based on what great friends we are, but they just weren't feeling it.

And the most interesting factions don't even get a unique focus tree! Nothing for Robot City and their dating simulator AI overlady, and nothing for the Bound Choir and their immortal psychic gestalt. And the stupid caps system keeps making me disband units.

Click to shrink...

Admittedly I do wish the Alamo Chapter did more then just wait and prepare for the inevitable onslaught of Santa Anna. It would have been nice to join Rosado and Rio in holding back the tide, especially since the Alamo Chapter can mess up his naval invasions while holding the land fairly well. The whole secret of Fort Hood is interesting but seems to come too late timeline wise to make much of a difference.

Although that might be an intentional theme, the whole standing alone as a chapter leading to getting their butts kicked when it could have been avoided. Especially since the Alamo Chapter is explicitly made up of Brotherhood hardliners within the Texas Chapter. Some interesting hooks for 3.1 though in the far off future.

Also I agree, the Chained Choir would be a lot of fun with a focus tree, especially since they're basically a massive Stranger Things reference. Robot City would have been fun and I kept wishing whoever ends up conquering Shale and his brood of mutants could loot the shop tec assistant. Ah well, we shall see what happens.

As for the Caps thing, what are you paying your guys, max benefits? So long as you don't go crazy with intel upgrades it should be pretty easy to stay above water money wise.