Evenstar
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I'll take it!
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Are Traps Gay?
- Thread starter Horton
- Start date
I'll take it!
StellarHips
Degenerating, one image at a time
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The very name is indicative that the purpose is to lure heterosexual dudes into a trap. So yeah, if not by looks, then by the intention, traps are gay. Insidiously gay.
Subrosian Smithy
Lady of the Mysteries
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Given the vast number of trap pornography openly marketed as "trap", it's safe to say that no-one is getting "lured" into anything.
StellarHips
Degenerating, one image at a time
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Yes, but if you consider real life traps, nobody walks around with a big sign "I'm not actually a girl!".
Psyckosama
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It's a hell of a lot better than Futa.
It's Prettyboy on Girl action without the same degree of confusion
Rexis12
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Depends!
The 'Trap' penetrates the girl? Straight!
The 'Trap' gets pegged? Oh you gay son!
Subrosian Smithy
Lady of the Mysteries
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AHAHA, no.
When you actually meet "traps" in real life, trust me, they're not interested in luring heterosexual dudes into anything. A man who is effeminate enough to pass as a woman and wants to get fucked by men can find plenty of gay men willing to screw him senseless. This is no surprise to anyone who actually thinks through the implications of the facts: traps are men who want to have sex with men, and men who have sex with men are a horny bunch, who are much less likely (compared to straight men) to panic and assault you when they notice that you have a penis.
"But there are more straight men than gay men-!"
It doesn't matter if the supply of willing partners (gay men) is smaller, because the demand from interested partners (gay men) is also proportionally smaller.
Fucking hell, regardless of whether or not traps are gay, there are still legions of chasers and trap-attracted men who are willing to fuck traps with no compunctions. There is no systemic reason for traps to go looking for straight boy dick. There is no good real-life basis for the "trap" meme.
Even when IRL men intentionally try to embrace trap aesthetics and beauty -- as opposed to just being naturally twink-y, or whatever -- they do in fact announce that they're men. They're called "femboys" and so on and so forth, and they broadcast their self-identified gender in the name. They're feminine boys.
But let's consider the case seriously for a moment. What kind of person do you think would have a penis, but also go to the trouble of getting into relationships with straight men, want to be treated as a woman by a straight man, and very conspicuously not walk around with a giant "I'm a boy!" sign?
A trans woman.
Miraishougeki
Interdimensional tentacles in your [CENSORED]!
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I'm into both men and women, so I can't really give insight into whether or not traps are gay, but... I like traps regardless of the whole troll-quality they have. More importantly, I have a friend who cosplays girls convincingly. They also have a girlfriend, like girls to the point of even having a girlfriend, and also aren't trans. By my personal definition, they are a part-time trap with the most amazingly feminine legs you've ever seen on a guy.
Of course, there's a big thing lots of people miss out on. Traps, by the Japanese definition, are "male girls." Get it? Get it? 男の子 (boy) versus 男の娘 (male girl)! It's right there in the definition what a trap is. They are amazing creatures that have mastered an art, an art of femininity despite masculine nature. Trans? Get that stuff out of here! Gay? By that logic, appreciation of femininity is gay! Fools, we all know the truth, that Traps are a living work of art!
Of course, there's a big thing lots of people miss out on. Traps, by the Japanese definition, are "male girls." Get it? Get it? 男の子 (boy) versus 男の娘 (male girl)! It's right there in the definition what a trap is. They are amazing creatures that have mastered an art, an art of femininity despite masculine nature. Trans? Get that stuff out of here! Gay? By that logic, appreciation of femininity is gay! Fools, we all know the truth, that Traps are a living work of art!
Psyckosama
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CrossyCross
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Well, yeah, that's pretty much how I read it.
For me, the the trap meme is about boys who, for whatever reason or another, are fucking great at looking like cute (flatchested generally) girls. If they're incredibly convincing you never noticed they were a boy before they or someone else pointed it out/admitted it, then they're a good/great/magnificent/awesome/etc trap.
It doesn't even need to be a lifestyle. Someone doing it randomly for the first time, or just judging someone if they might be able to pull off being a trap, it all counts for me.
The whole "an actual tag in some hentai and image sites" is secondary to that general idea, though there's a lot of overlap.
Honestly, I'm more offended that it feels to me like other people keep hijacking the term to be offended when I'm not even referring to them.
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Miraishougeki
Interdimensional tentacles in your [CENSORED]!
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I call those people "attention-seeking whores." ;3
CrossyCross
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...wait, seriously asking here, but I thought trans women (the ones who started out males and got sex changed to female) have no penis?
Cause that's like, one of the major difference points here with regards to traps (who are guys with dicks who for whatever reason are dressing up convincingly female) and trans women (who have an artificial pussy).
It's kind of morbidly hilarious.
"I'm offended by what you said!"
"...I wasn't even talking about you?"
It's weird. And fucking annoying to the point I'm actually slightly offended because they feel like randos who just popped up to screech at me when they weren't even in the conversation.
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Psyckosama
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I personally just like to sum this up as the apparent testosterone allergy that Japan has developed over the last 30 years...
CrossyCross
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I like it though. It gave stuff like this:
sweet, sweet, waifubait.
Miraishougeki
Interdimensional tentacles in your [CENSORED]!
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I'd not go so far as to say it's a testosterone allergy. Men in Japan are just focusing on business and wait until later to have kids. It's the natural result of a modern country that still has regular arranged marriages...that and the fact that most young folks just wanna enjoy their youth. Of course, that's a topic for another thread.
Subrosian Smithy
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Even if all trans women wanted genital surgery, not all of us would be able to afford it, and not all of us would be able to get it on a timely schedule.
It's not like a trans woman doesn't count as a trans woman just because she isn't able to get her birthday suit tailored; and if a trans woman still counts as a "trans woman" just because she has a dick...
Miraishougeki
Interdimensional tentacles in your [CENSORED]!
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I've met someone who's stuck in a state she refers to as "tranny dick," so I'm at least aware of that. I'd not really wanna lump trans folk in with traps, though. It's a pretty stark difference that needs to be high-lighted.
Really, traps are just too good. They're both husband AND wife bait. I love it. It's also more "innocent" than my blatant love of futanari, which is all about the lewds.
Psyckosama
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No, I'm talking about what I like to call "Jojo Decay".
Witness Exhibit A
This is Jonathan Joestar.
Now Exhibit B
This is Johnny Joestar.
Jojo's character designs are in some ways a microcosm of anime as a whole
CrossyCross
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Rule 8 - Gender Roles and Gender Politics
Well that's gonna be a bother.
Heeeere we run into a different sort of issue I guess. Context.
Using "trap" on fictional characters (said waifubait I just posted) I think really shouldn't be an issue, because that's pretty much how it became popular on the internet and is the main context involved.
Cosplay? Similarly fine, because that's heavily related to anime and said waifubait.
Now, other IRL stuff? With regards to people with dicks who dress up as girls, we have heterosexual guys who just like doing it as a hobby/one-time-dare (so unless they're actively trying to seduce someone, really they're just walking around in makeup and clothes and showing off, no harm done)*, gays who prefer to dress up as a girl but prefer to keep their dicks and obviously aim for other gay guys so it's not really an issue (hetero guys who try to push themselves on someone like this are entirely in the wrong if the unwilling 'girl' reveals the truth), and apparently, biologically male people who want to be girls but for whatever reason can't get rid of the dick.
*different from hentai situations, where the 'traps' are often, in-universe, crossdressing gay guys who are getting fucked by guys (either outright gay, or a heterosexual who's just all sorts of confused and borderline with regards to fucking someone so girly). I mean really, a 'trap' going "dicks are the best" can't really be interpreted as anything else.
...huh, I guess this technically answers whether traps are gay. The hentai traps getting fucked by guys who react like that are totally gay. Still on the fence about the guys doing the fucking.
The last is the issue because they're aiming for heterosexual guys (correct me if I'm wrong here?). Said heterosexual guys want women. That means the woman can't have a dick because that's a literal guy thing.
Gender roles are fluid enough already these days, with househusbands and breadwinner wives. If you can't even fulfill that simple requirement (have a pussy, even an artificial and infertile one), then obviously most people are gonna react with little glee and perhaps even negativity when you insist "i'm a girl!"
For me, in an ideal world they'd all get a full sex change. But this isn't an ideal world and apparently this is where we run into disagreements with regards to "how the heck is a trans woman, who has a dick, who doesn't want to remove the dick for a pussy, still called a woman?" You probably have an argument/explanation, but this is the kind of thing that the random guy on the street would squint at in confusion, and I'm not too far off there.
Which is a difference in opinion that we won't be able to settle here, so agree to disagree?
...well, trying to roll back all this rambling a bit, my main point has always been how I use trap for the anime bullshit and crossdessers, and I believe your statement even sort of correlates to this?
When it's being used in the internet to refer to anime and hentai, it's obviously not about the IRL stuff. Though there's some connection too with cosplayers. But either way, the use doesn't even refer to transwomen in the first place.
EDIT: I'm not sure if I managed to convey my words right without going too political. Ugh, maybe I should just delete this?
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Miraishougeki
Interdimensional tentacles in your [CENSORED]!
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In the end, it comes down to 2D Superior, 3D Inferior! Not quite sure I can say that fully in my situation, but I can atleast say that trying to restrict a beloved 2D trope to 3D rules is a mistake. Traps are indeed often gay in doujins, though. That's sad, because I like trap boys that actively go after girls. That may just be the housewife in me fangirling as it likes to do.
Drak4806
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I think the problem is that people have different definitions for what a trap is.
I define a trap as a 2D boy with unrealistic feminine features. I say unrealistic because their facial features and body structure are extremely feminine in nature. Apparent lack of an adam's apple, wide hips, thin waist, feminine ass, narrow shoulders and of course androgynous or feminine facial features. Some may have a hint of manboobs or a more prominent ribcage. That's it. I consider traps to be based solely on physical features.
Now most traps do crossdress but not all. A lot of them are gay but not all. A few may have Gender Identity Dysphoria but most don't. And there's a difference between liking to crossdress and pretending to be a girl and actually having Gender Identity Dysphoria.
I define a trap as a 2D boy with unrealistic feminine features. I say unrealistic because their facial features and body structure are extremely feminine in nature. Apparent lack of an adam's apple, wide hips, thin waist, feminine ass, narrow shoulders and of course androgynous or feminine facial features. Some may have a hint of manboobs or a more prominent ribcage. That's it. I consider traps to be based solely on physical features.
Now most traps do crossdress but not all. A lot of them are gay but not all. A few may have Gender Identity Dysphoria but most don't. And there's a difference between liking to crossdress and pretending to be a girl and actually having Gender Identity Dysphoria.
CrossyCross
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Like I said, "I'm not even referring to you?" issue. And, well, context matters.
There's also the matter of "when it's not being said in malice, and actually being said with affection and/or approval, is it even a slur/insult?" (the whole "hey, that's a great trap")
buuut I think we're getting into political stuff. Can take it to PMs if anyone wants to continue this.
Subrosian Smithy
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And, just as I said before, there's no "trapping" anyone there, because we're talking about real people willingly choosing to engage with these fictional and sexualized characters.
It's not about IRL stuff? Well, and here I thought that Gharr was raising the issue of "real life traps"!
Not quite. Trans women are about one third straight (i.e. attracted to men), one third gay (i.e. attracted to other women), and one third bisexual.
And, amazingly, plenty of straight guys are attracted to trans women. Not all straight men, not necessarily even many straight men; but that doesn't actually matter so much. The supply of willing partners (trans-attracted straight men) might be smaller, but so is the demand (trans women interested in heterosexual men).
"But it's gay for a man to be attracted to a person with a dick!"
Maybe, and who gives a shit. Asking "are traps gay?" or "is a trans-attracted man really straight?" is like asking "is Pluto really a planet?". It's not a question concerning material reality, because the facts of material reality are basically universally recognized; we all know what Pluto is made of and how big it is; we all know what the bodies of traps are like. The question is a question of semantics: "what word do we file this phenomenon under?" "how do we define the meaning of this word?" "what category does this go into?"
It's one thing to say "I'm not attracted to you because you have a dick". Some people might have a problem with that, but I wouldn't.
It's another thing entirely to decide that a trans woman isn't trans or a woman, because she wants to keep her dick. If a natal/cis woman got herself a dick and wanted to keep it, would we say that she wasn't actually a woman? Or would we just say: gee, I don't know if she'll have an easy love life, but she's still a girl?
I mean this with as much respect as humanly possible, because I'm not trying to be a bitch, but...
This thread was all but political from the get-go, being a thread about people telling other people how to think (about traps); and it's impossible to not be political when you up and say that an entire demographic would be getting certain surgical procedures in your ideal world.
rchalle
Getting sticky.
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Rule 1 - sniping and bringing up grudges from Rants
I mean, we know your opinions on trans women. The chances you're using it in all innocence are... not high.
"Oh, I'm not referring to trans people as traps at all! But while we're on this topic, let me tell you about how anybody would agree they're actually men. Oh, I shouldn't defend this opinion because of Rule 8, so agree to disagree?"
Incidentally, can I just make a remark about how scummy it is to shift your discussion of the word "trap" to another thread as soon as the topic gets banned under Rule 8, then say that Rule 8 prohibits people from responding?
Grosstoad
Whimsical Paranoid Creeper
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+touches nose+
Pretty loaded question, probably bait, but well, looking at all the hooked...
Anyway, some traps are gay, some are not.
I am unsure on the origin of the meme, but the term-coiner scenario is probably something everyone is quite familiar as a comedy skit.
Male sees a cute/beautiful female, male is attracted.
Male gets into a situation where genitals are confirmed, whether actively or passively, finds out the true gender of the 'female'.
Male runs away screaming, "IT'S A TRAP!".
There are variations, age, cute/beauty, whether the male is the aggressor or the receiver, whether the 'trap' is interested in the male or not, and if interested whether it is romantic or lust, etc.
The idea probably preys upon homophobia for comedy, as well as schadenfreude if the male is characterized as the predatory type.
Of course, some cultures are okay with crossdressing and gay relationship, or new subcultures allow for appreciations of such personages, switching some (but not all) of the "IT'S A TRAP! RUN!" fear responses into "It's a trap!? Oh, god, why is he so cute/pretty/sexy!?" why-boners as well as "It's a trap... I'm still going to tap it." situations.
RL-wise, it is still a powder-keg of a topic.
Solemn conservatives tend to ignore, reject, or outright condemn such personages and their appreciators, while progressive liberals would be neutral, supportive, or zealously shove those personages into the conservatives' faces.
There is also the personages themselves. Are they gay? Or maybe just like being cute/pretty/sexy? Genderfluid? Trapped in the wrong body? Just like the attention? Wrapping themselves in order to attract like-minded personages?
A bit too many variables to just put a single tag 'gay' on all of them, I suppose.
+meandering thoughts before bed+
Pretty loaded question, probably bait, but well, looking at all the hooked...
Anyway, some traps are gay, some are not.
I am unsure on the origin of the meme, but the term-coiner scenario is probably something everyone is quite familiar as a comedy skit.
Male sees a cute/beautiful female, male is attracted.
Male gets into a situation where genitals are confirmed, whether actively or passively, finds out the true gender of the 'female'.
Male runs away screaming, "IT'S A TRAP!".
There are variations, age, cute/beauty, whether the male is the aggressor or the receiver, whether the 'trap' is interested in the male or not, and if interested whether it is romantic or lust, etc.
The idea probably preys upon homophobia for comedy, as well as schadenfreude if the male is characterized as the predatory type.
Of course, some cultures are okay with crossdressing and gay relationship, or new subcultures allow for appreciations of such personages, switching some (but not all) of the "IT'S A TRAP! RUN!" fear responses into "It's a trap!? Oh, god, why is he so cute/pretty/sexy!?" why-boners as well as "It's a trap... I'm still going to tap it." situations.
RL-wise, it is still a powder-keg of a topic.
Solemn conservatives tend to ignore, reject, or outright condemn such personages and their appreciators, while progressive liberals would be neutral, supportive, or zealously shove those personages into the conservatives' faces.
There is also the personages themselves. Are they gay? Or maybe just like being cute/pretty/sexy? Genderfluid? Trapped in the wrong body? Just like the attention? Wrapping themselves in order to attract like-minded personages?
A bit too many variables to just put a single tag 'gay' on all of them, I suppose.
+meandering thoughts before bed+
Hextroyer413
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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IMO it depends on whether you like a trap specifically or traps in general
If you like one in particular then its not gay, because most of the time traps are just girls that the creator says are guys.
If you like traps in general then its totally gay, because you are deliberatelly looking for them.
If you like one in particular then its not gay, because most of the time traps are just girls that the creator says are guys.
If you like traps in general then its totally gay, because you are deliberatelly looking for them.
Zanderion
Posting while Hot
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From what media does that err character come from?
(From /r/gss, a trans shitposting sub.)