Exalted 3E Discussion

[Bre Karn]

Tell me what you think!

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When it comes to 3rd edition mechanical acumen I suppose you should try posting it on SV. Omicron was one of the playtesters for E and he should be able to provide pertinent evaluation.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

That artifact, with all due respect, seem not fit to be 5 dot one. World Shaking wonder it isn't.

Perhaps it lets a dude wearing it learn Martial Arts as if with Sensei? Or tap it's first master body-memories of martial arts moves?

 

[tehelgee]

When it comes to 3rd edition mechanical acumen I suppose you should try posting it on SV. Omicron was one of the playtesters for E and he should be able to provide pertinent evaluation.

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I don't have an SV account, cause I wouldn't be welcome there.

That artifact, with all due respect, seem not fit to be 5 dot one. World Shaking wonder it isn't.

Perhaps it lets a dude wearing it learn Martial Arts as if with Sensei? Or tap it's first master body-memories of martial arts moves?

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Normal Silken Armor is Artifact 4 on its own.

 

[kinglugia]

tehelgee, you could ask Biigoh to help you post it on SV and see their feedback?

 

[Nervaqus987]

I don't have an SV account, cause I wouldn't be welcome there.

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What about the Onyx Path Exalted forums?

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Normal Silken Armor is Artifact 4 on its own.

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And if memory serves me right, it's "price" is overblown. Mind me, that it is mostly personalized opinion. I often disagree with folks about Exalted.

 

[Tikitau]

It doesn't have any well known abilities or powers due to only offering Solars any increased function.

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That sentence feels really awkward.

As for themes, umm...Ugh, it's late and I need to read up on 3E and evocations, so this might not help at all, but at an insomniac glance...Some social combat sort of thing? Charisma-fu for rulers, since it's the sort of artifact/outfit associated with those who are in charge? Since it looks really impressive. Surprise attacks and the like, since it's medium armor that is disguised as some really fancy clothes? I'm sure the White Veil Society would love it, if it existed. Which it doesn't. Soak abilities, since it's designed as protection for a Solar God King?

 

[Biigoh]

I am seeking feedback on an artifact armor I'm designing for a 3E game. I've not started any evocations yet, and am in fact stumped on a possible theme.

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To break it down... it's artifact 5.
For mortals, it counts as mundane Medium Armor.
For exalts, it counts as Silken Armor.
For Solars, it could as Light Artifact Armor, with Medium Artifact Armor Hardness?

Long and short of it?

The wording for the mechanics is awkward. I would have it as Artifact 4 and leave it as is.

....

Glimmer Steel was not locked away in a tomb or vault, and it has appeared several times in the thousands of years since the First Age ended. Helped by the fact that it is one of the rare artifacts that can be worn by even the mundane(counting as Medium Armor), it has been worn by kings, nobles, bandits, and even Dynasts.

Mechanically, the armor has different effects when worm.

Unattuned, it functions as Mundane Medium Armor.
Attuned by Essence Users (such as Exalts, Spirits, Elementals, Demons, Ghosts, and Raksha), it functions as Silken Armor; in that it does not count as armor for Martial Arts that can not be practiced in armor, and has the tags: Silent, Special.
When attuned by Solar Exalted, the armor gains an additional 3 hardness on top of it's normal Silken Armor stats.

Solars who commit an additional 2 motes when attuning to it gains access to its Evocations, with stuff like
- Always clean, armor and wearer can't get dirty, scruffy or even sweaty.
- When on the ground or a stone surface, gains 1 additional dot of stamina.
- Gains 1 specialty dice when speaking to Elementals.
- Spend 3 motes and soak Damage with Full Stamina for the scene
- Spend 5 motes and gain the effects of Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit for 1 day.
- Gains 3 successes to making a good first impression when meeting people.
- Spend 3 motes and 1 willpower to convert entire dice pool to successes when speaking to a crowd.

 

[Eler0]

For Solars, it could as Light Artifact Armor, with Medium Artifact Armor Hardness?

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I'm fairly sure he wants it to have Medium Armour Hardness and Soak, not just Hardness.

The wording for the mechanics is awkward. I would have it as Artifact 4 and leave it as is.

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That would just make it strictly better Silken Armor for the exact same price.

This seems to come down to me to wanting strictly better stats with none of the downsides just because you increase the dot cost of the artifact, which is really not how artifact ratings work. Volcano Cutter doesn't get any better at hitting people in the face than Beloved Adorei. Higher dot artifacts have more large-scale Evocations, not better stats.

 

[Biigoh]

I'm fairly sure he wants it to have Medium Armour Hardness and Soak, not just Hardness.

That would just make it strictly better Silken Armor for the exact same price.

This seems to come down to me to wanting strictly better stats with none of the downsides just because you increase the dot cost of the artifact, which is really not how artifact ratings work. Volcano Cutter doesn't get any better at hitting people in the face than Beloved Adorei. Higher dot artifacts have more large-scale Evocations, not better stats.

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Do note that there are no "artifact rating" set in stone in 3rd Edition. It's noted that artifact armor gets an artifact rating of 3+, and that Silken Armor is artifact rating 4 at minimum. Not that it IS 4 or anything.

Basically, this is a fancy Silken Armor for exalts, and for Solars, if they pay more, they get evocations.

 

[Eler0]

Basically, this is a fancy Silken Armor for exalts, and for Solars, if they pay more, they get evocations.

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Then why does it have all the stats of Medium armour but none of the downsides? The only precedent we have, Freedom's Cadence, costs 3 extra attunement motes just to not count as armour unless you're crashed. And that's armour specifically made for Sids and Getemians so they can still practise their MAs in armour. Adding an extra 3 soak and Hardness on top of that, eliminating the crash downside AND not costing any additional attunement motes is just way too much.

Basically, evocations are cool, extra stats for free are not.

 

[Biigoh]

Then why does it have all the stats of Medium armour but none of the downsides? The only precedent we have, Freedom's Cadence, costs 3 extra attunement motes just to not count as armour unless you're crashed. And that's armour specifically made for Sids and Getemians so they can still practise their MAs in armour. Adding an extra 3 soak and Hardness on top of that, eliminating the crash downside AND not costing any additional attunement motes is just way too much.

Basically, evocations are cool, extra stats for free are not.

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Hahahahaha....

Look at the text in question again.

Unattuned, it functions as Mundane Medium Armor.
Attuned by Essence Users (such as Exalts, Spirits, Elementals, Demons, Ghosts, and Raksha), it functions as Silken Armor; in that it does not count as armor for Martial Arts that can not be practiced in armor, and has the tags: Silent, Special.
When attuned by Solar Exalted, the armor gains an additional 3 hardness on top of it's normal Silken Armor stats.

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That's right, it can be worn unattuned, which gives it MUNDANE stats for Medium Armor.

Mundane Medium Armor gets the following stats;
Soak +5, Mobility -1, Hardness 0

Artifact Light Armor gets the following stats; (This is what Silken Armor is)
Soak +5, Mobility -0, Hardness 4, Attune 4 motes

Artifact Medium Armor gets the following stats;
Soak +8, Mobility -1, Hardness 7, Attune 5 motes

Normally, when artifact armor is worn WITHOUT attunement, it inflicts -5 penalty to defense and all actions.

 

[tehelgee]

I've been tinkering around with this, and while I still haven't started working on the evocations, I have edited the mechanics part so that it's formatted like it would be in the book.

Spoiler

Glimmer Steel functions as normal Silken Armor, offering the statistics of Light Artifact armor, but not counting as armor for the purpose of Martial Arts styles that do not function with armor.

A special function of Glimmer Steel is that is can be worn by mortals while unattuned, in which case it functions as Medium armor, and does not penalize mortals the -5 penalty to Defense and all actions that other unattuned Artifact armors normally would.

Evocations of Glimmer Steel

Should a Solar attune to Glimmer Steel, they may pay an extra attunement cost of 2 motes and receive a bonus of +3 to Soak and +3 to Hardness.

Is that better?

 

[Biigoh]

better

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Certainly...

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Much better, seems quite neat.

EDIT:Tanukie'd!

CREEED! I mean BIII!

 

[Eler0]

Hahahahaha....

Look at the text in question again.
Normally, when artifact armor is worn WITHOUT attunement, it inflicts -5 penalty to defense and all actions.

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I'm sorry, but I have no idea how that's even remotely relevant. I don't think anyone was even talking about its use by mortals.

 

[tehelgee]

I'm sorry, but I have no idea how that's even remotely relevant. I don't think anyone was even talking about its use by mortals.

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It was a small bit in the original that mortals could use it unattuned as medium armor. The newer version has it spelled out in the mechanics section.

 

[Biigoh]

I'm sorry, but I have no idea how that's even remotely relevant. I don't think anyone was even talking about its use by mortals.

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It was in response to tehelgee's post, where I listed out what the armor did.

ie for mortals, mundane medium armor. Which was what you were talking about (regards medium armor).

While with people who attune to it, they get Silken Armor, which is light artifact armor.

Solars get enhanced soak as if it's medium artifact armor.

Which was what I was replying to.

 

[Eler0]

ie for mortals, mundane medium armor. Which was what you were talking about (regards medium armor).

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No, I was talking about being artifact medium armour for Exalts, I wasn't talking about being mundane medium armour for mortals.

 

[Biigoh]

No, I was talking about being artifact medium armour for Exalts, I wasn't talking about being mundane medium armour for mortals.

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And yet, I noted that specifically mundane medium armor when worn by mortals or when not attuned. You're the one who claimed that what I listed was too much, too low an artifact rating for medium armor, thinking it was artifact and not mundane.

 

[Eler0]

And yet, I noted that specifically mundane medium armor when worn by mortals or when not attuned. You're the one who claimed that what I listed was too much, too low an artifact rating for medium armor, thinking it was artifact and not mundane.

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No, I said medium artifact armour was too much for when it's worn by a Solar. And I didn't say the artifact rating was too low. Are you reading my posts at all?

 

[Biigoh]

No, I said medium artifact armour was too much for when it's worn by a Solar. And I didn't say the artifact rating was too low. Are you reading my posts at all?

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I did... take a look at the post you originally replied to.

Where I noted that it was a mundane medium armor, and then your reply started off with medium artifact armor stats for some reason. And I specifically noted that for Solars, they get a heightened hardness, nothing about soak or other stat changes.

 

[Eler0]

I did... take a look at the post you originally replied to.

Where I noted that it was a mundane medium armor, and then your reply started off with medium artifact armor stats for some reason. And I specifically noted that for Solars, they get a heightened hardness, nothing about soak or other stat changes.

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We didn't want heightened hardness, he wanted heightened hardness and soak so its mechanical bonuses are equal to artifact medium armour. +3 soak +3 hardness are medium artifact armour stats.

 

[Sol Mark-1]

Hi, I got a question what did type of charms MIRACLES OF THE SOLAR EXALTED added?

Where the charm good?

 

[Bre Karn]

Hi, I got a question what did type of charms MIRACLES OF THE SOLAR EXALTED added?

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At least one Charm per Ability. Some of them were conceptualized by Kickstarter backers, others were leftover cuts or reworked from the corebook.
Plus one non-Ability Charm that lets a Solar and their Lunar mate do the fusion dance.

Each Charm is commented with varying length (though some commentaries, infuriatingly, include stealth errata, such as the fact that Charms that let one bank successes for later use count those as not added by Charms; this should have been integrated in the corebook, or at least have been collected ina short appendix page).

It introduces a handful of Apocryphal Charms, AKA Charms that are non-canonical (including the fusion one). The Keyword is reserved for cool but unthematic/overpowered Charms that should not exist in standard games, and should only be used with caution.

Where the charm good?

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I don't regret spending a couple bucks on the pdf, but I feel that ordering the softcover was a waste of money OTOH. Impulse purchase hurrah (after I made myself swear not to get Onyx Path more money after E's delays and various disappointments).
Also, the art is markedly better than the one found in most of the corebook.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Wat? Overpowered? Color me confused. Wasn't that the whole Solar shtick? To have twice the result for half the effort that, for example, Dragon-Blooded needed?

 

[tehelgee]

Wat? Overpowered? Color me confused. Wasn't that the whole Solar shtick? To have twice the result for half the effort that, for example, Dragon-Blooded needed?

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Overpowered in terms of balance, compared to other Solar Charms.

 

[Bre Karn]

Wat? Overpowered? Color me confused. Wasn't that the whole Solar shtick? To have twice the result for half the effort that, for example, Dragon-Blooded needed?

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Hallowed Bond of Night and Flame (the fusion dance) lets one create a composite being with the Solar's Abilities and Charms (plus Lunar Attribute Excellencies) and mote pool plus a sizeable bonus, the Lunar's health levels and attributes, multiple limbs and animalistic features...

It's Unity of the Closed Fist all over again.

Some are really underwhelming though (there's a Presence-based social defense, unimaginatively named* Unnerving Solar Presence, that the backer originally wanted as a perfect social defense in the vein of Ex2, but Holden? ended up making it a dicepool-reducer for an opponent. Yuck).

There are quite a few that I really like.

Hanging Judgment Arc lets one fire an arrow to interdict an area. If an enemy enters it, bam, surprise arrow rain motherfucker.
Still in Archery, Solar Judgment Flare is... not original, but cool nonetheless.
Faster than Self Technique in Athletics lets you do the anime afterimage speed. And become a military unit through speed duplication
Among many others.

* Major hiccup of E, Charm bloat and the dearth of evocative names.
I'd rather have them make 'Charm Paths' (say, Hungry Tiger Technique • to ••••• for a cascade of damage-enhancing effects, even if it contains dice tricks, rather than five different Charms with 5 different names, with at least 2 of the latter being shitty). Plus useless fluff/flavor text that is severly lacking in flair and plagued with meaningless repetition of hyperbolic statements.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Charm bloat is a folly. I agree.

Overpowered in terms of balance, compared to other Solar Charms.

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Since 2ed the Solaroid charms never were balanced. Exalted isn't about balance, otherwise mechanics would be different for everyone, but about cool stories made bigger than life.

Though I admit that the only thing I use from 3ed is the Magical Workings, Evocations->Charms that need specific artefacts to be learn able/useable and new sorcery mote rules.
Other than that? I use my homebrew with fluff changed drastically compared with stations of Canon. For example Martial Arts serving as mortal source of charms/improvement of Essence.

 

[Sydonai]

but Holden? ended up making it a dicepool-reducer for an opponent. Yuck).

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Didn't this happen with most of the requests?
With the writer/s getting pissy and purposefully misinterpreting what was wanted?