With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Buggy123]

No. If you start on the surface of earth, then travel at 50% the speed of light away for X time, due to the stretching of time-space it looks (from earth) like it takes longer. From your perspective, it looks like time on earth takes longer too.

If you then slow down, turn around and head back, time on your ship and earth appear to speed up, and by the time you land back on earth it all catches up and time has passed normally for both you and observers on earth. From what I remember years ago when I learned this, the twin paradox can never actually happen. When you return, observed time-space catches back up.

Relativistic math is for compensating for appearance from light speed observations, it doesn't actually create more time out of nothing.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but the traveller is still subject to time dilation. In the oft-mentioned example of a twin on a spaceship, the twin on the spaceship will have aged less no matter what sort of trip they take.

Edit: I think I may have confused the point you were making. Regardless of the details of the scenario, anyone moving at high velocity will be subject to proportional time dilation, which is directly relevant when dealing with superfast people (as per the original comment). By my understanding, the twin paradox deals with why, when it appears to the traveller that the earth is slowed down, when they return home only the traveller has experienced significant dilation. This is much less relevant when talking about, for instance, someone running in a 2-meter wide circle at .9c.

 

[Mquz]

In DC, everything that is screwy with physics is explained very easily: the Speed Force/ other similar dimensions. Same reason the infinite energy generator works (warp generator or something I think? It was mentioned earlierish in story.) Who's to say alien civilizations can't tap into the speed force dimension like they tap into the warp? Alternate dimensional energy is channeled, physics breaks down, and everyone survives the travel. Hyperdrive/ FTL would just involve breaking into the speed force dimension, where normal laws of physics don't apply, and relativity is no longer a problem. It would also explain how DC time machines work. They just do what the Flash does, but with possibly more control.

Magic has been shown to be able to access the speed force, so why not superscience as well? It would explain that guy who uses a mathematical formula to do it. Heck, for all we know all starships just have parts of that written on a piece of metal in the warp core, and when they travel they just join the pieces and have an AI read it to complete the formula and gain super speed.

 

[Stsword]

Magic has been shown to be able to access the speed force, so why not superscience as well? It would explain that guy who uses a mathematical formula to do it. Heck, for all we know all starships just have parts of that written on a piece of metal in the warp core, and when they travel they just join the pieces and have an AI read it to complete the formula and gain super speed.

Click to shrink...

Actually it is canon that you can access the Speed Force with superscience in DC.

There's an entire civilization that does it-the Savothians.

Including the Flash's alien sidekick Skidd Flash, the fastest dog alien thingee alive.

However in this fic there is no speed force being used, it's just magic.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Uxoricide, part 13

11th September 2004
02:14 GMT

"…why I ate my dentist." Lantern Zox grins for a moment, then looks mildly disappointed by my lack of a response. "Hey, that was a big deal for me."

"Yes… Sorry. I'm.. just a little distracted."

Obviously, anything that makes someone angry enough to call a red ring must have been pretty traumatic, but I can't.. quite work out why that set Zox off like that. Skallox, sure. He was accused of a crime he didn't commit by someone he'd served loyally and then was thrown in an incinerator on his order, and because red rings are shit at healing he's going to look like he's got a burning skull for a head for the rest of his life. But… Substandard dental work?

"So…" Zox turns in the direction of Tamarus for a moment, then turns back to me. "She say no..?"

"Huh?"

"See, I did hear that crack about me being the last person you'd ask for romantic advice, but I actually come from a civilised region of space. Humanoids like you are everywhere, and even if you all look like shrunken heads on sticks to me, I do get that all the little shrunken head people come from somewhere." He grins in what I'm sure is supposed to be a reassuring way. And it.. sort of is, actually. "Tell Uncle Zilius all about it."

"She's about half my age."

"Uh-huh. So she's more fertile than you."

… "Pos-sibly?"

"That's a disadvantage in contract negotiations. But given how often you two have been mating, I don't think it bothers her. Does it bother her family? Are they worried that you're incapable of siring children?"

"Her.. family is just her sister." Who appears genuinely happy that Komand'r and I are together, even if some of her friends are less sanguine about it. "Ah, and her k'norfka, who seems nice enough."

"Ah, so he'll be handling negotiations on her side. Who have you got?"

"What do you mean?"

He blinks at me as if I've said something stupid. "The breeding contract. Obviously you don't fight each other; you're more the type to team up against other people. For money. And I approve: that's a sound way to both build up mutual trust and to create the financial security you need in order to support your offspring."

"Ah…"

"But if her family are getting professional negotiators involved, you can still find yourself at a disadvantage. If you haven't taken out a contract yet, you should get on that right away. I know some people. They really work more in criminal law rather than family law, but their firms handle it and they can probably do an internal referral."

I hold up my hands. "Zox, we're not talking about breeding yet."

"So you're taking out an option? I respect forward planning, but if you're concerned about getting too old to impregnate her, delaying it any further-."

"No. No no. Zox…" I really need to get a database on alien cultures at some point. "I'm slightly past my physical prime, but I could wait another twenty years without it being a critical issue. She's young enough that my culture considers her-. Considered her a child until recently."

He peers at me, realising that he's missing something but unable to work out what it is. "So… She's old enough to handle negotiations herself? That could actually work out best, but you should still stick to a standard contract format, otherwise-."

"No, it-. I violated a cultural taboo. Like the guy who did your bridge."

"Oh." He grimaces. "Well, you suck."

"I know! And she thought that her age meant that I considered her beneath me, and I convinced her that I don't, and that I love her, and she.. fled."

"Huh." … "No, I'm still on the bridge thing. What'd you do that for?"

"It's not always externally obvious exactly how old someone is!"

"So you just didn't bother x-raying her! Just like that skin-gnawing dentist!"

"I made.. an unwise assumption based on appearance and behaviour. And my main concern is not the violation of the taboo itself, but on the implication for our relationship."

He peers at me for a moment. "You didn't literally do my bridge, so I'm not that bothered-."

"No, not you and me. Me and Komand'r. Like… You… Think a female has good genes and you want to sire children on her, and she's up for it but you don't bother making a contract first, and even though you acted with the best of intentions things get messy?"

"Oh. Oooooh. I get it now." He thinks for a moment. "You should go talk to her. Poor planning or miscommunications in the initial stages can be counteracted, as long as everyone is prepared to work at it."

I gaze towards distant Tamarus. "Yes, the initial shock should be over by now. Thank you for… Helping."

He smiles warmly, red acid saliva dripping between his teeth and eating through the brick beneath him. "What are friends for?"

But if I have ruined my relationship with Komand'r, I'm going to be angry with myself for a good long time.

Space bends as I hurtle towards the royal palace, the universe snapping back to normal once I reach the settlement. Rather than the relatively conventional city I originally expected, Tamarus here is a largely-underground city running through a fat column of dense rock. I think it used to be some sort of defence silo, but as the attacks got worse Tamaran's people retreated to more defensible locations. I suppose they could expand again now…

I fly up and land in front of the main entrance. Komand'r stopped for a quick 'check me out' when we first arrived, but I haven't actually spoken to anyone myself-.

A really.. quite huge Tamaranian I recognise as Mr Galfore stomps out to glower at me.

"Is.. Komand'r in? We had a bit-" He glowers harder, folding his arms across his chest. "-of a miscommunication, and I very much want to talk to her about it."

He growls.

O-kay then. "Or you can get in my way. And since she loves you, I won't kill you. But I will injure you just enough that you won't be able-."

Faster than I can react, he bear hugs me. "I am so happy that my little ember has met someone as bile-filled as she is!"

"My bones, Mister Galfore! I need my bones!"

"Ah hah hah hah hah!"

He drops me, and I… Ugh. Good.. bluff-call. And my ring can't heal. I stretch my compressed joints a little as I follow him back into the palace. The few other Tamaranians I see give me a decidedly respectful look, but I'm not really in the mood to appreciate it. Mr Galfore leads me along a few corridors and comes to a halt in front of a door with 'Everyone Keep Out Especially Koriand'r' painted on it.

He sniffs as he rereads it, then steps forward and knocks on the door. "Little ember-?"

"I don't wanna talk to-!"

"It's him."

The door is wrenched open and Komand'r-. She stares at me, eyes wide and-. Has she been cry-?

She grabs my right arm and pulls, wrenching me off my feet and tossing me inside before slamming the door on her guardian's face.

I push myself up as she stares at me some more.

"Komand'r-."

"You love me?"

"I'm afraid so."

"Are you sure it's not just sex?"

"Remember when we fought those dominators, and you couldn't work out why I let you fight that big guy by yours-?"

"You said you didn't want to intrude."

"I couldn't. The beautiful savagery you displayed when you went all-out left me transfixed. Your wonderfully carnal fury left me speechless."

"Oh."

"I don't expect you to feel the same way-."

"But I.. think I.. do?" She looks away. "Remember when we killed those vampires in Russia, and then sat outside their cabin as the sun came up? And I put my head on your lap and you stroked my hair and I fell asleep?"

"Yes, of course I do."

"I don't do that! I don't.. relax around people like-." She looks at me, a little lost. "I like you. I like fighting with you, killing with you, fucking you... And that was fine but I could give it up at any time and now just being around you makes me happy and relaxed and I don't know what's going on!"

I take a step towards her and she's on me, kissing me hard and wrapping her arms around me to trap my arms by my side. And then she pulls back. "I don't…"

"Do you trust me?"

"… No?" … "Yes."

"Do you believe that I love you?"

"Yes."

"Then what's the problem? We can keep doing all the things we've been doing."

"I don't like feeling like this. It feels… Vulnerable."

"You're changing the habits of a lifetime. It's normal for that to feel uncomfortable. But you'll beat your discomfort like you beat everything else. And I'll be there to help."

She stares into my eyes, and the vulnerability starts to fade.

"Okay. I'll.. try it." She pauses briefly. "Have you.. still got the head?"

I smile warmly at her, raising it with my right hand. "Of course I've still got the head."

 

[Flux Casey]

Zox is a delight.

 

[Diraniola]

"Have you.. still go the head?"

I smile warmly at her, raising it with my right hand. "Of course I've still got the head."

Click to shrink...

This was delightfully heartwarming.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Aww :')
My violent little lovebirds


Coming this Fall!
Zox, the Date Doctor!

"PUNCH HER HARDER! You've got to proof you're capable of defending your offspring!"

Love...is Hell

 

[Buggy123]

In DC, everything that is screwy with physics is explained very easily: the Speed Force/ other similar dimensions. Same reason the infinite energy generator works (warp generator or something I think? It was mentioned earlierish in story.) Who's to say alien civilizations can't tap into the speed force dimension like they tap into the warp? Alternate dimensional energy is channeled, physics breaks down, and everyone survives the travel. Hyperdrive/ FTL would just involve breaking into the speed force dimension, where normal laws of physics don't apply, and relativity is no longer a problem. It would also explain how DC time machines work. They just do what the Flash does, but with possibly more control.

Magic has been shown to be able to access the speed force, so why not superscience as well? It would explain that guy who uses a mathematical formula to do it. Heck, for all we know all starships just have parts of that written on a piece of metal in the warp core, and when they travel they just join the pieces and have an AI read it to complete the formula and gain super speed.

Click to shrink...

It's not so much that there's a explanation, as it is that modern physics and FTL* are mutually exclusive. The existence of FTL would mean that we basically have to throw out half of what we know about higher-level physics, because one very big rule is that information cannot travel faster than the speed of light*.


* there are sorta exceptions. Wormholes, for instance. But these have their own limitations. Wormholes, essentially, have a time offset as well as a location; you can make a wormhole which brings you through a given amount of time as well as space. Generally, the minimum for this would be the distance between them; a wormhole with the two ends 1 light year apart could have a 'delay' between each end of '-1' year at minimum or higher.

Any less than that, and you could pass information into the past by, say, going through and signaling Morse Code with a light at the other end, because the light would arrive before you had originally left. Time travel leads into paradoxes, which aren't so much bad as fundamentally impossible.

By my understanding, the solution to this is that in any such situation, virtual particles (and for that matter, real particles) would travel through the wormhole back in time, and then travel through again, and again, and again... eventually creating a infinite amount of particles. 'eventually' being instantly, since they're travelling through time. At some point before this, the wormhole explodes. Violently. Do not attempt in any star system you would like to keep.

 

[Pinklestia]

How come reds sucks at healing if reds are bersekers and red rings crrate artificial hearts? Seems all you would get is rds dying wuite easily.

Also Raul was stolen his original ring and given a defective one, he should get his first ring back.

 

[Mquz]

It's not so much that there's a explanation, as it is that modern physics and FTL* are mutually exclusive. The existence of FTL would mean that we basically have to throw out half of what we know about higher-level physics, because one very big rule is that information cannot travel faster than the speed of light*.


* there are sorta exceptions. Wormholes, for instance. But these have their own limitations. Wormholes, essentially, have a time offset as well as a location; you can make a wormhole which brings you through a given amount of time as well as space. Generally, the minimum for this would be the distance between them; a wormhole with the two ends 1 light year apart could have a 'delay' between each end of '-1' year at minimum or higher.

Any less than that, and you could pass information into the past by, say, going through and signaling Morse Code with a light at the other end, because the light would arrive before you had originally left. Time travel leads into paradoxes, which aren't so much bad as fundamentally impossible.

By my understanding, the solution to this is that in any such situation, virtual particles (and for that matter, real particles) would travel through the wormhole back in time, and then travel through again, and again, and again... eventually creating a infinite amount of particles. At some point before this, the wormhole explodes. Violently. Do not attempt in any star system you would like to keep.

Click to shrink...

Except there are exceptions, namely quantum entanglement, where information travels instantaneously, faster than the speed of light, between 2 particles. (I think, not sure if this is actually possible)

 

[Diraniola]

How come reds sucks at healing if reds are bersekers and red rings crrate artificial hearts? Seems all you would get is rds dying wuite easily.

Click to shrink...

Red rings don't heal, they let you function damaged. DCs red light of rage seems pretty closely linked to pain.

 

[Mquz]

How come reds sucks at healing if reds are bersekers and red rings crrate artificial hearts? Seems all you would get is rds dying wuite easily.

Also Raul was stolen his original ring and given a defective one, he should get his first ring back.

Click to shrink...

Ah, because instead of healing, I assume the ring just replaces body parts. You don't die, but your body part no longer necessarily works properly.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Obviously, anything that makes someone angry enough to call a red ring must have been pretty traumatic, but I can't.. quite work out why that set Zox off like that. Skallox, sure. He was accused of a crime he didn't commit by someone he'd served loyally and then was thrown in an incinerator on his order, and because red rings are shit at healing he's going to look like he's got a burning skull for a head for the rest of his life. But… Substandard dental work?

Click to shrink...

When a third of your head is teeth, I suppose it's critical.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Her.. family is just her sister." Who appears genuinely happy that Komand'r and I are together, even if some of her friends are less sanguine about it. "Ah, and her k'norfka, who seems nice enough."

Click to shrink...

...He is a large man... Do not anger him.

He blinks at me as if I've said something stupid. "The breeding contract. Obviously you don't fight each other; you're more the type to team up against other people. For money. And I approve: that's a sound way to both build up mutual trust and to create the financial security you need in order to support your offspring."

Click to shrink...

...Different Culture, Raul, different culture.

"No. No no. Zox…" I really need to get a database on alien cultures at some point. "I'm slightly past my physical prime, but I could wait another twenty years without it being a critical issue. She's young enough that my culture considers her-. Considered her a child until recently."

Click to shrink...

Given a Red Ring's limited AI, I rather expect info-downloads to feel like getting punched in the brain. With words.

"I know! And she thought that her age meant that I considered her beneath me, and I convinced her that I don't, and that I love her, and she.. fled."

Click to shrink...

I feel you're misunderstanding things, Raul...

He peers at me for a moment. "You didn't literally do my bridge, so I'm not that bothered-."

Click to shrink...

Nope, he's just not getting it.

"Oh. Oooooh. I get it now." He thinks for a moment. "You should go talk to her. Poor planning or miscommunications in the initial stages can be counteracted, as long as everyone is prepared to work at it."

Click to shrink...

That's... Actually useful advice.

"Is.. Komand'r in? We had a bit-" He glowers harder, folding his arms across his chest. "-of a miscommunication, and I very much want to talk to her about it."

Click to shrink...

Incoming Shovel Speech...

He growls."

Click to shrink...

Extraneous quote mark.

Faster than I can react, he bear hugs me. "I am so happy that my little ember has met someone as bile-filled as she is!"

Click to shrink...

...What?

He drops me, and I… Ugh. Good.. bluff-call. And my ring can't heal.

Click to shrink...

It probably can heal, you just have to get angry at the pain. And it probably hurts worse than the original injury...

The door is wrenched open and Komand'r-. She stares at me, eyes wide and-. Has she been cry-?

Click to shrink...

You better get apologising, Raul.

"Are you sure it's not just sex?"

Click to shrink...

I'm guessing that she can handle. No strings attached and all that.

"I couldn't. The beautiful savagery you displayed when you went all-out left me transfixed. Your wonderfully carnal fury left me speechless."

Click to shrink...

Compliments! Good start!

"But I.. think I.. do?" She looks away. "Remember when we killed those vampires in Russia, and then sat outside their cabin as the sun came up? And I put my head on your lap and you stroked my hair and I fell asleep?"

Click to shrink...

Romantic!

"I don't do that! I don't.. relax around people like-." She looks at me, a little lost. "I like you. I like fighting with you, killing with you, fucking you... And that was find but I could give it up at any time and now just being around you makes me happy and relaxed and I don't know what's going on!"

Click to shrink...

Breathe, Komand'r, breathe!

"I don't like feeling like this. It feels… Vulnerable."

Click to shrink...

About what I'd expect, given her... History.

"You're changing the habits of a lifetime. It's normal for that to feel uncomfortable. But you'll beat your discomfort like you beat everything else. And I'll be there to help."

Click to shrink...

Admittedly, I don't think this is something you can punch into submission. Though violence is a good way to relieve tension.

I smile warmly at her, raising it with my right hand. "Of course I've still got the head."

Click to shrink...

A nice bit of comedy and romance. Not what you'd expect to see from these two, but... Satisfying.

 

[Mquz]

Have you.. still go the head?"
Got

And that was find but
fine

 

[Buggy123]

Except there are exceptions, namely quantum entanglement, where information travels instantaneously, faster than the speed of light, between 2 particles. (I think, not sure if this is actually possible)

Click to shrink...

It isn't to the best of my knowledge, but I don't understand the full details well enough to confirm it and I can't find any succinct explanation of it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

He growls."
Extraneous quote mark.

Click to shrink...

Have you.. still go the head?"
Got

And that was find but
fine

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Vaermina]

"My bones, Mister Galfore! I need my bones!"

Click to shrink...

It's things like this that remind me why I loved the original Teen Titans cartoon so much.

I smile warmly at her, raising it with my right hand. "Of course I've still got the head."

Click to shrink...

Dawwww, those two are adorable together.

 

[Chaoswind]

that was find but I could give it

Click to shrink...

Probably:

that was fine but I could give it

 

[moralrelativity]

Well, that was horrifyingly heart-warming. All the way from Raul bonding with his colleague and actually getting some good advice; to the love-birds sharing what they love about each other; to the reappearance of the head.

 

[inglorius]

"I love you. That's why I-. Why the idea that I haven't treated you properly so horrifies me."

She blinks again, her mouth hanging open slightly. "Um."

Click to shrink...

Love is scary. But fear is easily turned to anger, so there is that.

 

[Mquz]

Have to wonder about the culture where dental work is so important. Is it a primary sexual characteristic or something?

 

[Amrynel]

Except there are exceptions, namely quantum entanglement, where information travels instantaneously, faster than the speed of light, between 2 particles. (I think, not sure if this is actually possible)

Click to shrink...

The exceedingly condensed approximation is that normal QE collapse is effectively instantaneous but the observable results still only occur no faster than the speed of light. If there's any practical way to cheat this, we haven't found it yet.

 

[Ganurath]

Have to wonder about the culture where dental work is so important. Is it a primary sexual characteristic or something?

Click to shrink...

His species is basically photo-realistic Pac Man, with some vestigal limbs thrown in so he can wear a ring.

 

[Mquz]

He drops me, and I… Ugh. Good.. bluff-call. And my ring can't heal.
It probably can heal, you just have to get angry at the pain. And it probably hurts worse than the original injury...

Click to shrink...

That seems like a bad idea. At best, it'll just work like painkiller. At worst, you'll lose the body part the pain is coming from.

 

[BR549]

Given a Red Ring's limited AI, I rather expect info-downloads to feel like getting punched in the brain. With words.

Click to shrink...

"Massey beat me up with big words."

Have to wonder about the culture where dental work is so important. Is it a primary sexual characteristic or something?

Click to shrink...

Consdering that Zilius Zox's species pretty much looks like this...

Spoiler: That's not even a smile, it's just a bunch of teeth playing with my mind!

 

[Sockmonkey]

I just realized that the way Martian telepathy works makes the place meme-world. It's tumblr only in your head so there's no escape. The first lolcat will doom them.

I'd like to see a flash-forward episode showing what happens when Sunset Shimmer goes home and starts murdering her way through all the ancient evils and stuff.

 

[w34v3r]

The red lanterns are total bros, this pleases me. Just from the sheer WTF! of it.

Especially given how much of a headache the orange lanterns can be in the main story.

 

[King of Frost]

Oh man, I was not expecting that to actually work out.

I'm guessing something like that was planned back when you were considering her getting together with OL.

 

[Stsword]

I just realized that the way Martian telepathy works makes the place meme-world. It's tumblr only in your head so there's no escape. The first lolcat will doom them.

I'd like to see a flash-forward episode showing what happens when Sunset Shimmer goes home and starts murdering her way through all the ancient evils and stuff.

Click to shrink...

Yes, that's how they all died in the comics.

The spontaneous martian combustion was transmitted telepathically. MM survived by closing off his mind as his family burnt to death in front of him.

 

[FeepingCreature]

The exceedingly condensed approximation is that normal QE collapse is effectively instantaneous but the observable results still only occur no faster than the speed of light. If there's any practical way to cheat this, we haven't found it yet.

Click to shrink...

To continue, that's part of why quantum collapse is considered by many to be bogus. It doesn't make sense that physics would use FTL internally, then put up artificial barriers to keep us from taking advantage it. There are established quantum theories that don't need collapse, and they don't have any FTL propagation to contend with. So it seems plausible that the FTL part of collapse is just an artifact of that specific mathematical simplification.

Doesn't stop sci-fi writers from using it for FTL communication, ofc.