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SHINOBI: The RPG - New Game

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Fulcon, Jun 17, 2020.

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  1. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    I suppose. Isn't lawful evil about exploiting the laws of the land for personal gain? Then again, that's more methodology instead of ultimate goal which, I guess, might be tyranny.

    Ah, okay. So it would be more of a friendly-ish rivalry.

    I tried to channel a Warhammer 40k-esque feel, but one that's self aware. More Text to Speech type of Imperium of Man instead of Canon Compliant. Daisuke, I think, still has a lot in common with the flightless birds.

    This is an interesting thought.

    In my headcanon, he's stupidly fast underwater. Because, you know, turtles.

    Underwater.

    The fishmen learned this the hard way in the previous draft.
     
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  2. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    Okay I'm back. Lots of things go into alignment, but the simplest way of looking at it is methods and goals. Jashin wants to regularly throw complications into the order of society so that he can watch the response. Chaotic as hell goal.

    He also enforces strict order upon his own devotees. Lawful method.

    End result neutral evil. The simple version of these rules is that you have to tally up factors relevant to the different alignment axis. How to be at one end of axis is obvious. Being neutral on an axis involves either your pattern having nothing of relevance on that axis, or your pattern having aspects of both sides which conflict.
     
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  3. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Aye, I meant the Akimichi clan. I think the Hippos would go to someone from the land of rivers. But if Fire had more obvious rivers, Akimichi for sure.

    I was just thinking Elephants for the Nomnoms because they're both huge, unstoppable, and noble.
     
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  4. FreeJSJJ

    FreeJSJJ I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Anko is best Waifu! Make her a mother with those diamond engagement rings!!!!

    How the hell did I miss this story anyway? Oh eell better late than never.
     
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  5. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    I think he'd probably have to use his penis. Well, prefer to. I don't doubt he could make a seal that'd go on the diamonds that'd work, but that's not a fun option unless he's trying to create a god of wealth.
     
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  6. FreeJSJJ

    FreeJSJJ I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I've never played Fallout, but why didn't the MC take 1 from each stat except Luck and Intelligence? It would have still left him with 10 points while leaving him just below average in 5 stats but nothing majorly obvious.
     
  7. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    Because that's not how most people play, he had no reason to expect the effect would be as drastic as it was when that was never the case in fallout, that the unfortunate side effects drive an important piece of the early plot, and finally because without significant obstacles early on you cut tension, and that certainly wasn't coming from combat here.

    I'm not kidding either. Cha is the dump stat in fallout. It does nothing unique, and is a source of free points for stats that actually do important things. Every character wants high int. Most want high secondary, and possibly tertiary stats.
     
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  8. FreeJSJJ

    FreeJSJJ I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    So his decision was solely based on his experience in Fallout, wheras a newbie would have done something similar to what I said. Thanks.
     
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  9. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    I am definitely the odd one out as a roleplayer. I never dump cha, and use physical stats to drop points from, reasoning that I can pick up the loss, in clothing. But I'm more likely to drop endurance.

    Charisma gets you more speech options. Not a lot, and not all the time, but it does.
     
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  10. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    Speech certainly does in fallout 3. That's not charisma. Skills are overwhelmingly a function of Int. What do I mean? A maxed non-luck stat is twenty skill points in a system that doesn't consider skills to be of average quality until fifty or so.

    In fallout new vegas almost all skills, stats, and many perks have unique dialogue options. Specifically not Cha though.

    Meanwhile strength is melee damage boosting separate from skills, carry weight, and a vital component of many melee perks.

    Endurance is extra life total, longer under water air meter, radiation resistance, and in new vegas the poison resistance that prevents Cazadors and other similar things from melting your health bar in moments. High endurance will legitimately let you just shrug off what's commonly considered one of the scariest things in the game. Also necessary for all manner of combat perks.
     
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  11. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Charisma increases the disposition of all NPCs, which makes Speech checks easier. There are also general Charisma checks in dialogue with some characters, in addition to Speech checks.

    I haven't been able to play the game in years, with my new computer, windows 10, and garbage computer skills. So I can't give decent examples from my own playthroughs, however, this video has a bunch of examples of where Charisma is useful.



    EDIT: Oh yeah, and there are a couple of perks that give you more speech options, that have a charisma requirement.
    • CHA 4: Child At Heart
    • CHA 4: Scoundrel
    • CHA 5: Imperial Mediation
    • CHA 6: Animal Friend
    • CHA 6 & Barter 60: Master Trader
    Dump charisma, and you don't get these perks. If you don't get these perks, you don't get the extra speech options, bypass speech choices, boosted skills, reduces animal attacks, and reduces costs of items.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
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  12. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    Speech checks are easily made, animal attacks are XP, I don't want the NPC to run out of caps to convert my useless junk into faster because that's the primary purpose of going to shops in a bethesda game, and the only skill perks worth having are educated and comprehension.

    Unless you want only one good stat you have to give up something. There's no stat with literally zero value, but every other one does more.
     
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  13. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Well, if you just want a shooter, sure.
     
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  14. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    Every skill in new vegas has dialogue options attached. All of them. The method to attain more fluff dialogue is to pump int, and hoard magazines. Resource management, and optimization apply to everything. That includes talky bits.
     
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  15. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    Incidentally, I haven't seen this line remarked upon yet and I thought it was a good one. Anyone have any thoughts?

    Next chapter's still in the conception phase; I'm trying to figure out how quickly I want to get to the Organ Trail; I know what I want to do in there, just trying to decide how long the inbetween should be.
     
  16. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    For one the idea that entire scenario was allowed specifically to attempt to change the clan is a hilarious bomb the likes of which would send schisms through both clan, and Konoha. In canon the logical excuse was that after the Kyuubi Attack, and the Uchiha Incident Konoha wanted NOTHING to do with armed conflict at their relative weakest, with Hiruzen being pacifistic besides. If that's not the primary motivating force.... Well... We all know the bombs that would drop. Lines would be drawn around people/clans being supportive of Hiruzen's priorities or uncomfortable with such a direct attempt to control action.

    Further still, it's not that the line wasn't good. I was just more focused on things I could see having a more direct and immediate effect. That line only comes into play on a practical level if that thought gets out in a credible way, or if the Hokage is forced to make another decision involving the clan. That, in theory, has no need to happen as it didn't in canon unless.... Unless he seizes upon this opportunity to push on the grounds that plans which leave any members unsealed are innately flawed, and vulnerable. That this would also theoretically lead to a scenario where nobody activates the punishment portion of the seal what with a copy also being on their head.... Interesting.

    I had always wondered how that quirk was justified on a practical defensive level. Perhaps something to finish off WILLING defectors. Wouldn't want other villages to get the bloodline by simply offering a better deal, nevermind that in implementing that system they engender much of the resentment, and abuse that would make a person WANT to defect.

    Always was confused about the seal constantly talks about sealing the eyes themselves to prevent surgical removal being effective when what would actually happen is the thief/defection target using the hyuuga as breeding stock... I'mma go with way WAY too dark for a show watchable by the younger audience. Even the willing version brings up question most Shonen anime want nothing to do with answering. Thankfully we've already gone over the unwilling version not being a thing here.
     
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  17. Extras: Fulcon's Notes: Thinking back and looking ahead.
    Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    Thinking back and looking ahead.

    ---

    I want to type something about the fic. Updates have been slow to non-existant because, once my monetization was gone, I felt like I was finally able to take a much needed vacation from writing. My batteries are slowly recharging, and that means updates down the line.

    In Act 2, I had a lot of things set up for Daisuke to wreck the world. But then Daisuke got over his issues and he rejoined Konoha in the biggest climactic let down of the century. I kind of want to go over why I think things happened that way.

    Also, apologies if you guys are getting tired of me being endlessly self-critical. I'm trying to piece things together because there's stuff I need to figure out, so these are my thoughts.

    ---

    Reason 1: Plans without synergy

    The big conceit of act 2 was that I wanted Daisuke to become the bad guy. In order for Act 2 to work, Daisuke had to be the antagonist.

    The reason for this was simple; Daisuke was too powerful. He had a Green Lantern Ring without any drawbacks. I knew, even back when I was first writing this fic, that this was how it was going to have to be. And it was going to be fine because Naruto would become the hero and bring Daisuke back down, convince him to stay and trigger the grand reveal of Act 2's finale. Act 2 was planned and built with Daisuke being a background force spending almost all of his time working on getting home. Act 2 was meant to have Daisuke become the BBEG (from Konoha's perspective) and force Naruto on the start of his heroes journey.

    Well, if you were around before the first round of rewrites, you know how this turned out. It...was bad. Really, really bad. I tried to rush through things because I was letting my critics get to me. I was hoping to address all their complaints and finally finish act 1 (which I was beyond tired of) so I could get to the point of it all.

    Now, looking back on it, I was not ready to write a shift this drastic. I was neither competent enough, nor emotionally resilient enough, to write it. I was hoping to examine every potential failing of a gamer fic. Act 1 was how min-maxing can screw you over. Act 2 was how a homesick SI would do everything in his power (even though he was tilting at windmills with that) to return home. Act 3 was how the SI would react to someone else like him trying to destroy everything he cared about.

    I wanted to rock the heavens of SI-dome. I wanted to rip the whole concept apart and lay bare it's concepts for the world to see and condescend down with me. What happened was that my pride brought about my downfall. I was not nearly good enough, not nearly patient enough, not nearly wise enough, attempt a deconstruction on that scale.

    I cannot tell you how much I loathe my first attempt at this fic for this exact reason.

    However, when I started writing Act 2, Daisuke began taking more and more of a front seat until, well, I fixed my crap. Daisuke letting go was me letting go and then...well, we come to the next part.

    Reason 2: Daisuke was weak.

    Daisuke, in a way, is a deconstruction of an SI. At least, in the first draft. At the time of writing, I was a lazy, good for nothing person whose only redeeming attribute was that he could write moderately well. So Daisuke...embodies that. He was lazy. He had no problem solving ability, or even initiative (hello, Charisma stat!) and he had an uncanny ability to get people to like him for no reason. The only reason Daisuke was ever a good Ninja was because of the Game System. If he didn't have the game system, its likely that he never would've even considered being a Ninja and instead would've wound up doing...something. I don't know what. But he wouldn't be a Ninja. Too much dedication, too much risk of dying. Too much not being godlike.

    Now take someone like this, someone who mostly does what he's told, whose main defense mechanism is to shut people away, and give him aspirations to change the world?

    You know what happens?

    He gives up and goes back to whats comfortable.

    Let me reiterate.

    He gives up.

    This was the other reason why Daisuke had to be consigned to be a background character. I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if I focused on him for any length of time, my Daisuke as Villain paradigm would fall apart so fast I wouldn't have a fic. Its why or rather, how, Daisuke got over his stuff. Daisuke was pulled away from his support structures and soon crumbled and then wound up thinking that changing the world isn't all that good of a goal simply because he doesn't want to be in charge. He doesn't want to be in charge because he didn't have the will to actually see his designs for the world brought to fruition, didn't want to be blamed for the collateral damage his revolution would cause, didn't want to be at fault if he wound up making things worse.

    Shimoda Daisuke was weak. Weak enough that a single heart to heart at the end of Act 2 would've snapped him out of villain-hood. Weak enough that he couldn't carry a story without his social issues burdening him.

    Reason 3: Mitarashi Anko

    Listen, the only reason Daisuke got married to Anko instead of Ino was because Daisuke is an adult in the center. A man-child, but a man. He's an adult and wants adult things from his relationships; and he saw Ino as a child. That sent all kinds of signals to me that it was wrong on every level imaginable so I...cheated. Anko was psychologically vulnerable and willing enough to give Daisuke what he needed when he really needed that emotional closeness after having spent so much time independent and walled off. Luckily for her, Daisuke was fairly benign and I would like to think they'd make a good match up. Cringe-y dialogue, sure, especially at the start (which I maintain was because they were trying to find their footing and thus was only natural; they just had no shame because there was nothing to be ashamed or bashful of - they were married for pete's sake), but a good matchup.

    But ultimately; it came down to this. Daisuke wanted sex and Anko was the best match up that didn't send his conscience into a death spiral. Anko needed emotional connection and Daisuke came offering it on levels she'd never experienced before. Then you add in Ninshu and the fact that they are actually fairly compatible and you have a surprising recipe for a completely unnatural but happy and long-lasting marriage.

    At least, I certainly hope so.

    The main reason this was so jarring was because Hisako and Ino had much, much more screen time and Anko didn't have much characterization before suddenly being Daisuke's wife. This draft is already fixing that by setting them up early and quickly. If Hisako and Ino want to prove to Daisuke that they can be his...concubines (I don't like that word), they'll need to prove that they're adult enough to handle and adult relationship.

    ...come to think of it, why am I putting a harem in this fic when I find that concept so distasteful? Actually, why do I find that concept so distasteful? Mathematically, it's best for humanities gene pool. Questions for later.

    Reason 4: Jashin and Shinigami.

    When I abandoned the Daisuke as Villain paradigm (something I still wonder if I should've), I needed a conflict that could contend with Daisuke being a god. Enter Jashin and Shinigami. Since the three were immortal, they were always going to be at a constant stalemate. There was no winning in their conflict. Jashin decided that since Daisuke was wrecking the Tobi-Madara-Kaguya bomb he'd been poking and prodding for centuries, that he'd wreck Konoha by becoming Naruto's surrogate mentor. Honestly, I like these two, but some people mentioned that they didn't like them because they didn't see how a decisive victory was possible; I realized that, well, that was the point. When you get past a certain point, the world becomes a game and then the only thing to do when someone wins is to set up another game.

    ...wait, I think I might've stumbled upon why they've stuck around in the new draft. Their appearance having been sped up because I realized that a reincarnate person would be of great, almost obsessive, interest to the Shinigami and Jashin would then follow suit because it's something new and their game has hit a stalemate (their game being kind of like real world monopoly, Jashin being the only one really playing and Shinigami exclusively being the banker). So they're just waiting for things to explode and suddenly, there's the child of prophecy and...a reincarnated person slaved to a game system that warps how the world is supposed to run.

    Seriously, if it weren't for Daisuke, Jashin was perfectly fine just watching Naruto plod along per canon with a smile on his face and a bucket of popcorn. But then Daisuke's very existence changed things and arguably made them worse.

    Actually, making things worse somehow is a thing for a lot of my SI's. Wonder why that is?

    ---

    Thank you for accompanying me on my ramblings on the story. I still hope that one day I'll be able to finish this thing so we can all read it and enjoy it.

    Until the next time.

    ~Fulcon
     
  18. The Unaligned Player

    The Unaligned Player A blank Page for any role you need

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    I believe I said it best.

    Stories are centerted on discontent/suffering/conflict. Victory is antithetical to this.
     
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  19. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    Screw it, I'm on a roll.

    Victor is Player 1. He's the lab-coat gentleman that Nichiren just walked in on. He is a gamer SI.

    Victor is another Fallout-esque gamer, with the SPECIAL system. He's also deconstruction of dump stats, but also, a deconstruction of video game morality systems. In Daisuke's place, he dumped Luck, another strategy I had when building characters. Naturally, his life went wrong and he found himself constantly doing things that got him negative karma just to survive; the negative karma got people sent to kill him. Eventually, his one bright spot of hope was finding his wife, the one person who successfully associated with him without dying. But after they were married for a month, she was killed by a Sheriff looking for justice and she didn't go quietly. So when Victor found this, swore revenge...then got that revenge by shooting the Sheriff, he got negative karma.

    This broke him.

    He was already monstrous by the time he discovered the console and that just made him millions of times worse. He returned home, saw his old uncle driving the red truck his father had given him, something he had specifically asked to be scrapped in his dying wishes, and he killed his Uncle at the wheel, causing Daisuke's car wreck.

    From there, the rest is history.

    So glad to get that off my chest.
     
  20. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    Yeah...you're right. Entirely.

    Have a cookie.
     
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  21. asdo

    asdo Experienced.

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    hmmm, this something I kinda planned for from the very beginning of my own gamer story, in the end, at the cusp of godhood, my MC, will die. Despite all of his training, stats, skills, resistances, immunities, the MC will take a blow that will kill him, cause it will kill someone else and as a result will kill so many more, including those he had created bonds with. This is something I plan in order to deal with the Gamer, eventually I am Saitama scenario that always seems to pop up. Death by not being selfish for once. Not sure if it will turn out all right, but it is my solution at least. No Victory, but not really a defeat. and that will be the End. Think that is really the only one of two way's Gamers can really end. One Above All, or Death.
     
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  22. prussian-granadier

    prussian-granadier I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I would be all for you rewriting act 2 in a completely different direction if you wanted
     
  23. unidentified_individual

    unidentified_individual Getting some practice in, huh?

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    I know this will out me as a heretic, but I liked the first version of this story, including how Daisuke's own character arc turned out. And I was looking forward to seeing how the Anko-Daisuke "I just want to make you happy / no I just want to make you happy" thing would play out in their mutual character growth.

    I'm enjoying the second version too, but IMO there was nothing wrong with (and an awful lot right with) the first version. I get that it didn't go the way you wanted, planned, or expected, but that didn't make it bad. If anything, when something in a fic takes over and goes its own way, it's a sign that you've created something rich enough to have a life of its own. And IMO that's a big sign of success, not failure.
     
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  24. Azazyel0714

    Azazyel0714 Versed in the lewd.

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    I get that you want a balanced antagonist but maybe a out of context antagonist is what you need like say dungeons of monsters appear around the world sending waves of monsters into the country side or when the naruto world is done go to DxD
     
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  25. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    I hope it goes well for you, man. I really do.

    You're no heretic.

    I appreciate you saying so.

    Have a cookie.

    *shrug*

    At this point, I'm so decompressed and drained that I'm just explaining...and explaining...and explaining...
     
  26. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    You know what, since the world might very well end with 2020, I'm going to go ahead and talk about the ending.

    There was going to be two endings planned. The trigger event being Daisuke and Victor's confrontation. Daisuke uses a suicide technique to force Victor to die of radiation poisoning and he...perishes with the blast. Or he doesn't perish with the blast. The deciding factor being a perk called Unstoppable. Five percent chance that he doesn't take any damage from his own suicide technique. If he dies, Daisuke is subjected to a Fallout-esque ending with slides, telling him the fate of every single person or faction he met and affected. If he lives, he gets a classic happily-ever after, much closer to Naruto in tone. The endings would be titled Ending A and ending B and you, the reader would be encouraged to pick the one you liked. No canon ending because I was that pretentious.

    There it is...I finally got it all out there, I can die in peace now. Thank goodness.

    (Disclaimer: I'm not actually going to die, I'm being metaphorical here.)

    I love you all. You guys are the best audience a guy can ask for. :)
     
  27. NightmareWarden

    NightmareWarden Not too sore, are you?

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    I really enjoy your stories. I enjoy your protagonists, your primary character casts, and your villains. What you revealed up above certainly grabs my interest and I hope to read more of this story when you have a version that matches your needs for this project.

    If I could speculate- you assume that successfully completing Act 1 will refresh and reinvigorate you. Obviously progress is satisfying, but you have a serious gleam in your eye for the near-ecstasy of completing the story entirely. You’re running on hope to remove the stress writing puts on you. That’s pretty normal for authors.

    As unintuitive as it is, I think that authors operate at their best when they stop comparing a project to a “sprint” or a “marathon;” it is mountain climbing: a drop of sweat spent preparing things beforehand is a drop of blood saved from the dangers of the exhausting climb.

    You know more about your stress than the rest of us... Find a writing project that helps you more than it hurts you. Build up your strength and worry about yourself more than your audience’s expectations, and you’ll be able to come back stronger than ever.
     
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  28. Warer

    Warer Shadowstep12 Sleep fucking is impoilte

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    Why would you write if its not fun?
     
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  29. asdo

    asdo Experienced.

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    Because we are addicts to writing and to seeking acknowledgment from random internet strangers we will never really meet
     
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  30. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    I'm glad you're starting to feel better, and I don't want you to worry. This isn't a high pressure environment. I'll happily be ready whenever you are, and I think I speak for most when I say that.
     
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