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SHINOBI: The RPG - New Game

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Fulcon, Jun 17, 2020.

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  1. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    Thank you, and your advice rings true. It is climbing a mountain, isn't it?

    Hm.

    Have a cookie.

    Desperation to share ideas I've had for years.

    Also this.


    Thank you. :)
     
  2. Sargon

    Sargon Know what you're doing yet?

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    This has has been a good ride, thanks for all the work, I've really enjoyed your writing!
     
  3. szalamang

    szalamang Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    And so the shinobi who cheated death at the haunted mansion, cheated death once again and the entire world was forever changed...
     
  4. Mike45

    Mike45 Terminator EU-lore fanatic

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    My 3 kopecs: because (at least in the Westernized part of world) it pisses off both edges of the cultural/ideological spectrum something fierce, like holy hell there are few things in existence that provokes so much disgust at the idea and practice and we all got a little by traumatized by the FALLOUT of their ANGER!

    (intentionally using caricatures here, please don't get offended)

    for the angry feministas and friends: "Harem" is just one big sign that all males are nothing but lust-crazed, predatory beasts that would enslave and torture all womankind if given half a chance and thus justifies their continued roaring crusade against the "Patriarchy !"

    for the modern christians and sympathizers: it's a giant spit upon the strict and orderly simplicity (sacred simplicity!) of one man + one woman or one person loyal to another one person, perfection!, "harem" is perceived as something that perverts and mocks what should and can only be be very holy pact.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  5. Seij

    Seij Conveniently Generic Title

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    I think the real experience in your story is in reading from the previous drafts up to this point. And sure, we get to experience Daisuke and friends, but the real experience is in how you grew up. Honestly, that by itself is a good journey. In reading what you've written, how you've written, and how you respond to those who've read your works, it describes a journey that runs somewhat parallel to Shinobi. I find that it adds a rare flavour to the experience of reading about Daisuke.
     
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  6. Hyperluminary

    Hyperluminary Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    So, I'm not sure if this is the case or not, (can't recall if it came up in story or not, but I feel like it did without doing another re-read of the other threads to confirm) but I get the read that Fulcon was raised as a member of the LDS church.

    Kind of a lot of potential baggage with that specific sort of relationship structure there as well, if so, in a few different and not necessarily obvious ways.

    If I'm not correct, I apologise for the assumption.


     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  7. Stanley_Jeb

    Stanley_Jeb Making the rounds.

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    Honestly... I didn't mind part 1 much. The problem for me was just... When Daisuke got Almost Perfect, that was the end of the story. That was the end goal. Naruto becoming the Hokage, Luffy finding the One Piece, Goku finally destroying Piccolo. Afterwards, there wasn't really a story left for me. The person who came back basically lacked everything that made Daisuke Daisuke, a personality-death in a sense, and I had no reason to care about the new character.

    Honestly, with you saying Almost Perfect isn't a thing, I was immediately up for it, because that always felt like the biggest problem. Daisuke being lazy is counteracted by the SPECIAL system because now there's an actual reward associated with it, which could change his perception in an instant since not being lazy is now numerically, provably worth it. No real need to change the character itself if you just change how he came to be. Positive reinforcement goes a long way if you've never experienced it before.

    As for Anko... Honestly, that felt weak to me. I can see why you would go that route, it's an SI, and apparently no SI knows biology well enough to understand that no, cramming an adults mind in a child won't automatically turn them back into an adult, and that there's a reason why puberty is such a drawn-out biochemical process (no, this isn't a rip on you, it just slips people's mind from time to time), but I feel like a bit of Skill in Medicine could circumvent that as well if you still want the "I'm a pedophile" drama-angle without shoving a secondary character on him. Still, we know Anko in this story, so even if you wanted to redo the Anko-Daisuke thing, it would work better than it did.

    ...Though I also must say that... No, Daisuke as a villain would never have worked. Not with Almost Perfect. That being said, you could have it work now that Charisma checks don't give him this weird Zen state of perfect understanding in regards to other human beings. Food for thought, if you want to go with that.
     
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  8. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    I always considered it as not so much about whether putting an adult mind in a youngling's body makes an adult so much as the mental baggage that comes with the process. No daisuke being physically attracted to people his own age wouldn't be a bad sign or anything. No, that doesn't mean he isn't going to have a squick reaction. I understand the science, and I'D have a squick reaction. Why? Squick doesn't, and has never, cared about your rational thoughts. Lizard brain meets social programming to train people for certain reactions doesn't just go away.
     
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  9. Stanley_Jeb

    Stanley_Jeb Making the rounds.

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    It has been a while since I've read part 1 proper, but I seem to recall this having been kind of a big deal to him far beyond just Squick. It wasn't just "ew, no," he made a whole drama out of the Hanako thing. Doubly so since he's bad with Charisma. This could've been kinda funny for him to go "No, because the thought of being with you utterly disgusts me" and then having to deal with the fallout, but he kinda didn't do that either. It was just completely off for me.
     
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  10. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    And Daisuke, whatever version you're dealing with, is actually an extremely dramatic person about anything he actually cares about. Strong negative or conflicted reactions magnify. He didn't out and say the extreme thing, because even a cha of one is still one point of social acumen as opposed to zero, and he still had physical attraction even if he didn't like it.
     
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  11. Pef

    Pef Versed in the lewd.

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    It would be interesting to see if the MC's kids inherit some of his gekkai traits. And before you jump up in outrage, remember Crusader Kings, and all the nice bloodline upgrades you can achieve with proper eugenics.
     
  12. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    Work on the story hasn't ceased, it simply stalled.

    I read that in Ron Perlman's dulcet tones. Beautiful.

    In my experience, people who are offended by caricatures are too immature to deal with the flaws in their own position.

    I...thank you for this. This makes me really happy. Yeah, I have grown up. Wish it wasn't so painful, but that's what growing up is. And, unfortunately, I've still got a long way to go.

    Have a cookie, a slice of cake and some ice cream. This made me happy and I appreciate the kind words. :)

    You are one hundred percent correct.

    And that was my true failure.

    Pretty much this.

    Define 'Hanako thing'.

    Well, that comes from being someone who didn't know how to control his own emotions. Still don't, but at least I'm aware of the problem now.

    Also yes. Drama.

    His kids would inherit his Chakra Control, and his Adamantium Skeleton when he gets it. When he gets Chakra sense, he'll gain the ability to see Chakra, so they'll get that too. Stack Creation Release on that and...
     
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  13. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    Oh cool it's at least semi active again. Nice to see you're in good spirits Fulcon.
     
  14. Stanley_Jeb

    Stanley_Jeb Making the rounds.

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    I meant when he couldn't return her feelings and how bad he felt about it and how he then talked to the penguins about it... I don't know, that kinda social insight just feels a lot more like a Charisma related skill which should have been beyond him. It just felt out of left field. I could've seen him shutting her down hard without a second thought, because as Galacticplumber said, his initial Squick reaction was a natural response I could totally see happen, but the rest of it dragged on a bit too long for me. So it's less the choice and more how long he considered it, I guess? It's... hard to describe.
     
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  15. Kircala

    Kircala Omnicurious Degenerate

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    So I went ahead and saved the story as an epub file (10 chapters) so people can download and read it as they like while waiting for an update~

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/14dhxuws8kou6ai/SHINOBI The RPG (New Game) - Fulcon.epub?dl=0

    the cover image I used is just a neat wallpaper pic i found; https://cdn.hipwallpaper.com/m/2/1/qoVEON.jpg

    I'm really enjoying the story so far, it seems like there's a long way to go yet. Who's gonna be Naruto's teacher if Kakashi already has a team? or will Daisuke's team 'graduate' from needing a teacher? What's with that lab coat guy talking about the end of the world? Isn't that super far off in the future? I'd think he'd be planting roadblocks in more places for fun. Is green shirt guy gonna play a more hands-on role in the story or remain an observer? Are Sakura and Sasuke not even on Naruto's mind? You'd think he'd chat about them more. How long until level 50? 2 years? 10 years?
     
  16. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    Naruto hasn't even graduated yet. He's still a year off, so Daisuke got Kakashi a year prior to Naruto graduating. Sakura and Sasuke are on Naruto's mind...kind of. They aren't a team yet. But they'll be a team yet. As for the other stuff, you'll just have to wait and see.
     
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  17. Kircala

    Kircala Omnicurious Degenerate

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    Ah, alrighty, maybe Naruto's more subdued in his Sakura obsession and already has a 'rival' in Daisuke so is less peeved by Sasuke's 'coolness' with others. Ty for replying! I'm excited to read more whenever it comes! :D
     
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  18. subarashii

    subarashii Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    This version is much better than the first one. But when will you update? Do you have update schedule?
     
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  19. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    He hasn't given a schedule, but has stated the work is merely stalled. Not abandoned, but indeterminate wait-time.
     
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  20. Fulcon

    Fulcon Wim Hoff Method Initiate

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    Thank you. :)

    I have no schedule. As I said, I recently demonetized and that's been a massive stress relieve since I no longer felt obligated to update once a week.
     
  21. MudkipSage

    MudkipSage I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Reason 1: Plans without synergy
    I partially agree with this, I think you underestimate the ability to carry a story. There was nothing actually wrong, with a character who overcomes their issues.
    Daisuke from your first fic was a VERY different character from this one. In the first one, he's like an accidental sociopath, able to feel empanty, but almost completely unable to pick up the signs that he should be doing so. And the story gets taken over by his drive because he KNOWS what it's like to be able 'to human' , but has ended up being unable to catch on. But he has a solution! Almost Perfect! Except upon reaching his goal, the path his little psudo-sociopathic ass took all but destroys him. I think the biggest issue with this was that you didn't let him break. This was a tragedy, the kind that Naruto is filled with. But the entire story up until this point was a comedy. It's funny reading about a heroic murderhobo, and watching them try to (badly) express how they care when they can neither catch, nor throw, the appropriate social queues. Like a serious meeting/debreiefing where people are informed "He is completely stable, he is empathic, the part of his brain that interprets emotions is basically goo. If you need him to understand how your feeling, you will have to verbally state it out, possible in stages" The issue is, his issues WERE the conflict of the story. And they made him an interesting character, needing him to be a villain wasn't the issue, the issue is you resolved the stories conflict, and needed to supply new ones, and the new ones simply wern't as compelling. I think the first story would of been fine ending with Naruto basically confronting a breaking down Daisuke with FRIENDSHIP. Naruto doesn't need to go on a journey to be a hero, he already IS one. His power is the ability to talk to people. Journies are for people who need power ups. looking back at that work, i think a better fix would of been Arc 1 (as is) -> Allowing Daisuke to break and exploring that until he is saved from his own guilt -> ONE PUUUNCH (AKA the let's resolve the unresolved social conflicts interspersed between smack-downs.

    On the new fic, I think you've dropped his social issues down , by a lot. Enough that it no longer has that comedy and feels a lot more serious in tone, but doesn't seem to follow the "Then Reality Ensues" formula. I'd consider this a downgrade overall, but am trying to reserve judgement.(See #4). I would reccomend showing people actually REACT to how weird he is, likely by interlude. He also overcame his Cha really easily. Keep in mind that Shonen isn't the only genera, and it doesn't have to stick strictly to that formula. One Punch Man is very popular, as are stories that deal almost entirely with romance. Conflict doesn't require a BBEG to be twirling a mustache, or for stopping him to be a life or death struggle. Sometimes the fight is incredibly one sided, and hilarious.

    Reason 2: Daisuke was weak.
    This is something I think that should be explored more than anything, and I actually feel like his motivation is weaker in this edition in some ways. Why exactly did he want to be a ninja, other than the fact that his system let him do it? He gets quests that passively push him to do them. He gets experience for taking certain actions. Everything about his system pushes him to be a Ninja. He's never actually indicated that he has the character, or inclination to actually BE a ninja. Oddly his "goal" is to retire, which is bizzare at this point. I can't imagine the village not being totally cool with him becoming a full time Fuinjutsu/Medic guy. The only motivation I can see is the threat the "strangers" who interact with him may present. The Original work, he wanted Almost Perfect, to an obsessive point. It drove his every action, to basically fix himself, and his superiors had realistic reactions.

    The reason I saw for people "falling" for him was because he was a genius, powerful in a very real sense, and kind. He did a lot of things to aid those around him. Something oddly realistic about the fallout games is that Charisma 1 characters could act in such a way that people would LOVE them. The Lone Wonders doesn't blink with his dead thousand yard stair, as he rescues orphans from the burning building, then looks confused when you give him money for it, but grunts out something that sounds like an angry "thanks?" before moving on to help the next person. He would attract people who got to know him, or who can deal with that. Ino cannotically hooks up with Sai, which is similar in many ways. Power has an appeal all its own, and once people understand how good of a guy he is, he's got a lot going for him.

    Reason 3: Mitarashi Anko
    I'd honestly tend to agree with your character assessments here. No real advice other than figure out the root of your issue w/ harem-route. Best case scenario, you're all in love, more likely to scenario, you live with a bunch of very close female friends, you regularly fuck for mutual enjoyment. Not exactly ideal, but not a great sacrifice. Something i've picked up is that the reason most relationships fail is due to a lack of communication, trite but true. People would prefer to throw away and try afresh then risk the pain involved in trying to fix the problems at hand. Incidentally, arranged marriges, or similar marriges that don't readily allow divorce (outside of certain circumstances) tend to be fairly successful because the option to give up isn't easily obtained.

    Reason 4: Jashin and Shinigami.
    Daisuke the villain was bad. He didn't BELIEVE in what he was doing enough to be a villain. Oh he belived in his values, but not enough to actually follow through. He would be a better accidental villain who has accidentally fucked up the balance of power, than anything else.
    I absolutely HATED the sudden BBEG from the original.
    kill_Daichi , there final fights done.

    A character whose power is system X, and who's enemy is the ability is perfect control system X, would not possibly end well unless they either
    a)Gave up, faking their lose/death, or contriving some way to end it. You beat me! Here's your medal, smell ya later! They lose interest.
    b)Idiot ball, " I've disabbled the arbitrarily high number of protective measures i've taken to ensure I didn't get killed by some idiotic fellow hacker, i've left the method I used for my own ascension functional, and I've also decided to not pay attention to what you're doing when messing with reality hax nor have alarms if you start fucking with shit that actually might pose a threat.

    The fact that it was just some rando, was just insult to injury. Naruto has plenty of super powerful beings able to want to get in on this. Apparently its a big plot in Boruto, but i've not watched/read that much so can't comment. The absolute "best" scenario I can think of offhand, is fucking up quickly enough to break the powers outright for both parties, as the one thing the power could reasonably not protect, is itself. Would require A and/or B. (DAMN YOU TOD HOWARD. I KNEW YOUR META-GLITCHINESS WOULD BE THE DEATH OF US ALL!)

    I'll drop that line of thinking here, lest I start critiqueing a fic long past.It was just a...major sore point for me.

    I'm legitimately concerned this is going to turn into "another 'ROB', but with 2x this time!" Truthfully I don't feel there is a core NEED of a ROB. Arc 1 was perfectly fine in the original work, Arc 2 lost the main driving force without really picking up steam.

    You don't have to explain a stories premise. SI + Fallout in Naruto. Go. Thats asking for a headache unless you have a very good literary reason as to WHY it needs to be explained, and explored. If they legitimately ARE Jashin/Shingami, and are trying to fix a Out of Context Problem, in a universe that relies on prophecy, kudos for that. I'm still concerned they seem to randomly have new powers, acting strangely for beings local to that universe. But I shall try to reserve judgement and keep my feelings from the orignal ROB in check. I would best recommend having a clear "objective" for them both in this case. I saw you posting that both are "evil" but i feel that is unfair to all parties involved. Saying LE isn't a good andswer, nor motivation. Espeically for non-human Robs, who may not see morality in an even relateable way.

    They have objectives, and purpose for their actions, as much as they have purpose for the story. It's been quite a while, but IIRC, Jashin basically was of the "This world is shit, so we're going to go ahead and kill people to reincarnate them into a way better world. That will help!" Death and pain are meaningless to him, he's doing you a favor really! Given again, Boruto's dimension shenanigans, he may of had a point. Shingami is an unknown to me, but apparently lets people summon him to do shenanigans involving eating peoples souls. If they embody something, or have a metaphysical Duty, they should push for that duty to be carried out, them coming into conflict would likley be powerful beings tryign to cary out a suddenly conflicting duty, with tools that arn't yet accounted for by the laws that govern them.

    I more or less just used your post as an outline for criticism I'm afraid. I hope this came off as at least somewhat constructive.

    Thanks for writing, as always.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020 at 8:56 PM
  22. Galacticplumber

    Galacticplumber Know what you're doing yet?

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    I would like to point out that there is a very reasonable hook for anyone born into the Narutoverse with knowledge to want to be a ninja for practical, rational reasons.

    When Konoha, or whatever village you're born in, is embroiled in direct combat you have two meaningfully different choices. You can be a civilian, hopefully evacuated to a secure shelter guarded by likely genin as you hope the enemy ninja don't discover you.

    Alternatively you can have some degree of ability to actually effect your fate. Throw the dice into the wind and hope, or don't. Yes this does mean the logical reason to desire ninja powers is inherently cowardly. Live long enough you might develop other nobler ones like caring about people around you enough to want to protect them.

    As actual knowledge of the plot shows, violence comes to all in that world with time.
     
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  23. duburu

    duburu Not too sore, are you?

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    is this the reboot buddy?
     
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