With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

OK, I've just checked by using the Block User function - looks as though you got the desired result.

 

Mr. Zoat. the problem is a ton is a ton, no matter what it’s made out of. It would be better if he said 1,000,000 m³ of neutronium, since that would weigh about the same as the earth, with the same gravitational effect.

 

Basically, it's an issue with the units. While a million tonnes is a lot on a personal level, it's tiny compared to a planet. For example, Pluto itself is 1.30900 * 10¹⁹ tonnes. A mere 10⁶ tonnes of neutronium (or any substance) is going to change the mass of the planet by so little that it doesn't even show up it the mass I gave. At orbital distances, the sudden increase in gravity from a million tonnes appearing is infinitesimal.

M_Pluto+10⁹ / M_Pluto = 1.00000000008x increase in the gravitational pull of Pluto.

Put another way:
1 million tonnes at 1 km = 1000*G.
A 100kg person at 30 cm = 1111*G

You have more gravitational attraction to the person sitting next to you in a movie theater than the 1 million tonne piece of neutronium a kilometer away (and likely still further given the ship is orbiting Pluto). Both are still tiny, though.

Edit: As an interesting note, with solid granite, a million tonnes is a cube 74 meters on a side. Not even a small mountain.

 

So ignoring the Neutronium thing, is Pluto a star conqueror that just gathered debris to form a planet around it? I seem to remember they get pretty large.

 

Possibly here; I don't think that's happened in canon, but there was a story where Starro had "a base" on Pluto.

...that story was the one where Superman visted Earth-C. Captain Carrot's universe.

 

His stupidity is infectious? A combination of unfounded optimism and a reluctance to admit to mistakes? His sheer unbridled charisma?

 

That was just the quote I had readily available at hand. I'm not inclined to sort through his posting history, but I can do it if you want to. And he most assuredly does not act that way only while responding.

Also, you'll notice, the 'motherfucker' quote from me is not an insult, but a reference to the film 'Pulp Fiction'.

You are right so far as V has a 'Paul is wrong stance', but you're wrong in that our, or at east my, stance is that Vaermina is automatically wrong. It's that he almost aslways proves hmself to be wrong. You'll notice that people are corroborating V's math as an example, and that I make sure to point out when I don't know something.

And yes, reputation does matter. Especially when it is a reputation he has cultivated painstakingly over 7 years, even if I wasn't their for most of it. He is almost always condescending when he points something out as a rule, which is why we are in turn hostile to him.

As for his biases not affecting anyone, they do. It's like a street preacher outside your house, except you can ignore him with a metaphorical earmuff. I don't justify myself by the fact that Vaermine annoys me, however, since it's up to me to mute him, since I find equal amounts of amusement and I get to argue with someone as well. It's the fact that if the street preacher is outside shouting, he doesn't have ay ground to stand on when someone shots back.

No, it's the fact that he consistently produced irrelevant evidence, sometimes directly contradicted by WoZ multiple times, comes up with the most convoluted arguments to justify Paul being wrong, acts condescending while doing so and has continued to do so continuosly.

Like I said, I can pull up quotes from his search history if you want.

Like I said back before, it's not the gravitational pull of the nuetronium that's accelerating the ship, that's simply a hypothetical worst case scenario.

 

If so then Unicron isn't the only one to have a become a planet, or whatever Pluto is classified these days.

 

(Lord and Manga)

You'll get there eventually. Some start by giving Vaermina the benefit of the doubt, none end up there.

 

It turns out that Vaermina was right on this occasion. I will edit it.

 

Both of those should be "worst-case".

 

If V annoys you lot so much, just put him on ignore and be done with it. Don't clog up the whole thread talking about him.

It's annoying.

 

Thank you, corrected.

 

My best guess is that mining laser woke up a Pluto sized Star Conqueror that the Star Hunters wanted to free.

If that is the case that means the OLC and GLC need to be called in to deal with it.

 

Seconded. Sooner or later you figure out that Vaermina is just here to bitch about the story, and will do so whether there is actually any legitimate reason to bitch or not. Which 99% of the time is the latter. In other words, Vaermina is a troll.

Yeah, that seems pretty obvious. I'm a little boggled that the possibility hasn't occurred to OL yet. You'd think it would occur to him to try to figure out why they were shooting what amounts to a dirty snowball with a mining laser and that possibility would be very near the top of the list.

For some reason everyone involved (except maybe Koriand'r, whose background and lack of knowledge regarding Star Conquerors give her an excuse) seems to be holding an idiot ball. Moreso than usually in Kahn's case.

Not that OL holding an idiot ball is especially unusual mind you. OL minus the idiot ball is the ridiculously OP Common Sense Paul.

 

I might be agreeing with Vaermina here, depending on what a zero-tau field is.
A cubic mile of neutronium is 8.336e27 kg. If you put that on Pluto, you wouldn't have a Pluto anymore. It would fall in to the neutronium under a gravity higher than the surface of the sun. For all of 27 picoseconds until the neutronium went hypernova for lack of suitable mass and pressure to maintain compression. That much mass would be detectable from anywhere in the solar system. The GPSs in our phones and satellites would be pinging errors like crazy as their calculated orbital paths diverted enough to desynch them from their telemetry. Our telescopes would be swinging to the outer solar system to see what new gas hypergiant we just captured and if we'd just become a binary star system.
Now, if a zero-tau field stops time then maybe this is somehow tenable. But then how do you turn the damn thing off without Jupiter evaporating?
Neutronium is less of a threat pound-per-pound than an antimatter bomb - but that's a hell of a lot of pounds you got there. 1/250th of the sun.
But... maybe that isn't a threat to a Lantern? It's entirely normal physics, aside from whatever the zero-tau field is, and so sufficiently advanced Clarketech ring might not give any shits at all about how many solar masses you've got. Just huck the entire thing into subspace with a big orange "Mine!"?

 

Folks... the SI didn't measure "a million tons". He was just using it as synonym for "a large quantity". People do that all the time.

 

If someone with a better knowledge of physics than me can suggest a reasonable amount of neutronium to have the desired effect, I'm happy to change it again. I'm not wedded to a particular quantity.

 

I don't think you should have to. The SI referenced an arbitrarily huge amount of neutronium as a worst-case scenario, it is therefore, at this point, purely hypothetical. Assuming that the speculation that this is actually going to be about a Star Conqueror buried under the ice is actually accurate, than the neutronium will remain hypothetical. This will render the discussion about how much neutronium "should" be there, moot.

 

To go from the same gravitational pull exerted by Pluto at a given distance to the same gravitational pull exerted by the Moon at the same distance, you'd need to add about sixty quintillion tonnes. If you instead wanted the gravitational pull exerted by Triton (the moon of Neptune), you'd need around seven quintillion tonnes. But at those scales, you'd probably be more likely ot think of it in terms of 'Europa's mass in neutronium' or something along those lines.

 

This is the point I would give you a thumbs up emote if the site actually had one.

 

Hey Zoat, Making an assumption that to set the ClusterShip moving despite the systems to prevent it, would require the gravity of pluto to change by at least 1.5x

The ship can certainly handle stronger gravity than that, but likely any automated system is set up to compensate within some tolerance , sensibly expecting that a planet's gravity is not likely to change more than 1.5x unless the ship has been moved. (presumably by a non-addled crewmember). Or some very odd things are happening (Again time for a crewmember)

That pretty much requires another half of pluto's mass in neutronium. (Assuming just neutron star matter here). In Kgs that's a meaninglessly large number: 26,000,000,000,000,000,000,000Kg. So probably best to just leave it as a conceptual. Million Tons = Fukin' Heavy

Alternatively if you wanna go for volume its not so mental. Post-it note maths gives you 10,000 cubic metres of neutron star material. Admittedly still a pretty cheeky amount of neutron star material to just leave lying around, but the numbers look alright.

 

Thank you, amended.

 

I have to agree with the suggestion that "million tonnes" was just slang for "a lot", but if it's been amended... *goes back and re-reads* Ah, yes. That would do it.

restraints

Usually hyphenated.

 

That was actually quite aggressive by V’s standards from everything I’ve seen, not aggressive by any other standard though.

Every time they are right, they basically get the same initial treatment. This time they were right, the first comment responding to them was this:

I’d say go ahead, but while it seems like it sometimes ‘This isn’t the V discussion thread’ and I’m not sure you could convince me anyway. I went back 8 pages when pulling those quotes, and I didn’t see anything I could call insulting to another poster by V. So even if you found something way back, the volume difference could almost justify anything V could say as self-defence.

I’m gonna stop here, you guys obviously feel you’re fully justified in how aggressive/insulting you’re being and I can’t exactly stop you, so just gonna have to leave it.

 

Thank you, corrected.

 

Time for some back of the napkin math.

Reality
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming something like real world Neutronium, aka 'material that's density throughout is equal to that of the nucleus of an atom' , aka 'the material making up a Neutron Star' , there is a theoretical lower limit to how much mass it would require to Stay in that state. Mass lower then this value would lead to the substance expanding outwards since the gravity of the mass is no longer enough to keep it in this compressed state, which would be a large explosion leading to a lot of hydrogen atoms being released.

It's a complex and ongoing study to find this value, known as the 'Chandrasekhar limit' on the low end and the 'Tolman–Oppenheimer–Volkoff limit' on the high end. Current math seems to indicate a value around 1.4 stellar masses minimum and 2.2 max.

The sun comes in at a little under 2.0×10³⁰ kg, which puts our minimum mass for something to consist of Neutronium and stay that way between 2.8×10³⁰ kg and 4.4×10³⁰ kg.

While weighing more then our sun, due to the compression effects of the mass and the nova that creates them, neutron stars are far FAR smaller in radius. A quick search lists off some of the smaller known pulsars (spinning neutron stars that emit fancy radiation) at between 2.6 and 16 km in radius. Most come out to around 10 km radius, for a volume of 4200 km².

To put that in perspective, that's a volume somewhere between Lake Huron and Lake Michigan. Visible from Space scales.

So you have an object that weighs from 'a bit more' to 'more then double' our Sun, that's around the size of a Very Large Lake, just to be the substance in question.

So, we've got a mass and now we want to figure out the acceleration that mass inflicts on an object, since that's the 'vibration'. Lucky for us gravity is pretty simple, in that it follows the inverse square law, like other field effects, and the gravitational constant goes linearly with mass. Note that all we care about really is the mass, the density or size of the object doesn't matter unless you're trying to poke it.

Acceleration due to stellar bodies can be derived from their mass and distance, but I'm just going to be lazy and go off existing known values.

Acceleration due to mass of earth is 9.8 m/s² or 32 ft/s ²
So that's 1 G
Acceleration due to mass of The Sun is 275 m/s² or 896 ft/s ²
So That's 28 G.

So, ballparking the acceleration of our minimum sized chunk of Neutronium as having 1.1 to 2.1 stellar masses, thus having similar acceleration factors, somewhere between 30.8 and 58.8 G's.

Having that 'suddenly' turn up is going to be far more violent the a mere 'vibration'.

It'd be on par with a Car Crash, for the first moment, then you'd be crushed to death in a few minutes if the impact didn't get you.


Fiction
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming Comic Book Neutronium, in that it has the same density as the real thing but can exist below the min value for it to be sustained realistically, you'd have to still figure out the mass of the block in question, and the range to the subject to derive a gravitational constant you could use, but in general, you'd be dealing with big numbers, with things assuming something like neutronium with a density of 4×10¹⁷ kg/m³, 1 meter cubed would be more then Mount Everest (at 6.0 × 10¹⁵ kg), with Pluto itself weighing in at only 1.31 x 10²² kg. You'd be dealing with small decimal points of G's for car to building sized chunks of the stuff.

 

So what are the chances of Paul being able to assimilate the Chaos Starros? He's been without some form of convenient attack or defense minions ever since he killed his fatties and he hardly uses the hell wraith either. Was it destroyed when he was killed or something?

Plus not only do they offer some form of magic but they could act as a form of mind control when Paul is to busy to brand a target or needs a bit of telekinesis to deal with certain opponents.

 

https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-50#post-2524846
https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-51#post-2531458
what happened between these two?
as near as I can tell the second link is the next one in the main story after the first link but there's a huge jump in story line that's leaving me confused

Perhaps link should be made local?

*blinks* I forget why I quoted this one... most quotes I make are for a typo ... oh there it is an extra space before the closing quotation mark

casualties include fatalities and injuries both

to use it define

to show the

anyone who might

thought out

I get what you're trying to say but everyone hit's at F=MA it's the basic formula for force it's just speedsters are capable of much higher A than most

perhaps the link should go to the local copy?

defeats the purpose?

in combat will be?

this seems like it's missing a closing bracket?