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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    It's true in both universes.
     
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  2. Baladar

    Baladar Know what you're doing yet?

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    If Paragon had seen them use the snakes to devour the sapients of a planet, he’d likely destroy all of their ships and have killed all of them by now.

    G-man hasn’t done that because of space god reasons.
     
  3. DrThoth

    DrThoth I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    He might have branded them or altered their desires; I know he doesn't like doing the latter but I think he'd be fine with it in the heat of battle. Since Renegade notes they don't seem tech-savvy (though how that squares with them reverse-engineering emotional spectrum and Omega Effect technology, Source only knows), marooning them might be an option.
    Alternatively, get any remaining Zamaron Pirates to enter a fight with them and just sit back and enjoy the stereotypical comicbook misandrist superwomen smackdown.

    I'm now imagining what Tangseid would do if he encountered the Citizenry; I imagine basically what he did to Diana, just with a whole force.
     
  4. Rockinalice

    Rockinalice Versed in the lewd.

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    I mean guys let's be honest here looked at objectively Astarte should woop Diana's ass in a one on one fight She has more experience Is fighting and using her actual divinity not like this version of diana who has just started using it while her aunt has used hers for a while

    I think unless she severely underestimates fighting Diana And Mr. Zoat uses the force of plot There's no way objectively that Diana can wins this fight

    At least not that i can see
     
  5. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

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    Maybe Astarte will be the thing that finally pushes Diana to use the abilities that she's been unknowingly preventing herself from accessing. As a Titan, she should be much stronger than she currently is. The things holding her back are the blessings of the goddesses and her own mindset.
     
  6. Steelplaza

    Steelplaza Custom Title

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    I mean, Diana won in the comics.

    The Citizenry are so weird. There has got to be someone pulling the string to make this society hold together, because otherwise why haven't they fallen apart long before now?
     
  7. Rockinalice

    Rockinalice Versed in the lewd.

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    True true that could happen the Interesting thing about that happening is if it does Is is how she's going to control the massive amount of power she's unlocked when it does? Because the difference in power between even a baby Titan and what Diana is using now It's like the difference between Batman and Superman. Would her body even be able to handle going to level of power so fast as well?

    Mr Zoat correct me if im wrong on power levels for this?

    i just going of the only Titan we saw for this and he beat Poseidon pretty easily unfortunately that was an old Titan Who is well used to his powers and not a baby like Diana And even if she unlocked her Titanhood It would probably take her a few Millennia at the lowest estimate to reach her full power and potential i would think because TRUTH is such a broad Main DOMAIN to have she would probably have smaller domains in JUSTICE, WAR, BEAUTY, that she would have to master as well.

    Sorry for the rambling
     
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  8. Rockinalice

    Rockinalice Versed in the lewd.

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    Yes she won in the comics but like I mentioned she mostly won "because of plot" not because she was objectively the better fighter

    I think that's one Of the problems with comic stories they'll come up with a villain that objectively speaking shouldn't lose to the hero yet they do because plot demands it Or the hero will pull out a power or something that was never mentioned before or even hinted at to pull the win

    (bigest example is superman who is an average member of his race but does things all the time that a member of his race should not be able to pull off but does it anyway because PLOT)

    This is why I'd like to Mr. Zoat story he has given good reasons for the heroes winning and losing fights and I can't currently remember any time he was just like "because reasons" that's why they win.
     
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  9. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    If Diana does win this, despite Astarte being more experienced, then I'm betting that it would happen due to her tapping into her divine power and overpowering Astarte and catching her by surprise.

    Astarte may not have so much experience fighting against other divine beings, due to the universe not having too much magic so the chance of meeting other magical beings may have been unlikely before Actually Grayven came along.

    This is just my theory.
     
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  10. nobodez

    nobodez Bringer of Context

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    Honestly, I just pop my "invisitext to blue bookmarklet" for every chapter, because I never know when it's going to show up (and I mainly read on my mac or iPhone so the highlight trick doesn't work).
     
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  11. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Diana won their first fight in the comic by using the lasso to restore Astarte's memories. The effect was so debilitating that she folded. No idea how she won the rematch.
     
  12. Bud-E

    Bud-E Stand up so I can push you down!

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    Was Theena talking to Artemis when she said this or was this a challenge to Grayven. Also are Artemis, Green Arrow, and Tao all archer Gods. Is there some variation between their abilities or can they all do what the other can if they have the Knowledge/Experience.
     
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  13. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    I think Artemis mentioned that she's connected to archery, but in a way that's like hunting or assassination related, while Tao is more your standard warrior.

    I'm still not sure if Green Arrow was fully Awakened, but if he was then he may be like Tao.

    And they can do what the other can.

    For example Artemis was able to make those rainbow bubbles Tao is capable of making.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
  14. DrThoth

    DrThoth I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    He was Awakened at roughly the same time as Artemis, but because she spent all that time in the future, and Tao had been more or less fully empowered by Chang'e from the start, I presume he's the least metaphysically powerful. Style-wise I agree that he'd be a lot closer to Tao.

    I was thinking of this as a possible resolution, but since Astarte has already been tied up with the Lasso and apparently remembers her whole life even without it (might be wrong about that part), and is still all bloodthirsty, right now I don't see how it'll work differently in their duel. Right now it reminds me of Granny Weatherwax's mind-hack of the Duchess in Wyrd Sisters to make her confront her true self and the damage she's done, which turned out to be ineffective because she already knew and embraced those things as part of her self-concept (actually the Duchess might make a good Orange Lantern, but in terms of capability and viability for enlightenment, not morality).
     
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  15. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    You must have read a different comic book then.

    Diana cut through Citizenry forces like a cuisinart.

    It was quite obvious Citizenry technology< Olympian magic.

    The woman empowered by divine blessings that she can punch a foe to the moon, is only slightly slower than the Flash, and can tank a thermonuclear strike was in fact just flat out more powerful than the Citizenry.

    She took out an entire Citizenry strike team including Astarte, defeated their undefeated champion, and then literally tore through the spaceship to defeat Astarte.

    While Achiles was defeating the gruel snakes single handedly with a melee weapon. Citizenry technology< Olympian magic
     
  16. Rockinalice

    Rockinalice Versed in the lewd.

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    Which is what im saying objectively Astarte has been fighting wars for Millennia. which means she has a much more experienced than Diana when it comes to combat single or otherwise and as a demigod of ares and an amazon Queen living breathing war for Millennia using her natural divinity she put her well above a Diana that has only used the power she gets from other gods. which is just a fraction of a Gods power. Which Would mean that Astarte should have beaten her. Just from lore reasons on how demigods and gods work

    but lets wait to see how mr.zoat does this fight

    Side note: its a comic fact that when any Flash is serious there isn't a single hero in the Justice League that's any match for them in speed or can keep up with them the best example is Flash War that shows this.
     
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  17. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    Keep in mind just what War's she has been fighting.

    Because this is very much a "Black Panther's Wakanda" case where she has so technologically outclassed her enemies that her tactics and skills should have never needed to evolve past the most basics.
     
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  18. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    I can confirm that the Renegade has never Awakened anyone called Green Artow.
     
  19. Rockinalice

    Rockinalice Versed in the lewd.

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    We know that the Citizenry is a only the strongest rule which would mean that Complacency isn't allowed because if you do odds are someone is going to kill you for your position.

    So from this we can safely assume that Astarte has had to always push herself to get on top and stay there for as long as she probably has for one and second grew up in the time of myths and legends and the amazons were constantly at war. Another would be that the Citizenry would probably have at least a few enemy's that they have been at war with at one time or another for how they do things.

    Funny thing about DC no matter how advanced a civilization is most still stick to close combat for problem solving

    she at least would have combat experience that would leave Diana who's only been around for 100yrs in the dust for combat experience
     
  20. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    I think that Harmony mostly fixes mental afflictions, but it may work.

    Fixed it.

    But seriously, was Green Arrow fully Awakened like the others?
     
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  21. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Yes.
     
  22. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    You know what advantage 3000 years of combat experience would give you against someone who can tank spaceship canon blasts and punch spaceships into submission? Things WW did in that very storyline, by the by. Enough sense to not be stupid enough to fight them in hand to hand. If she had attacked Diana with a spaceship she'd have actually stood a chance.

    And if you knew your Greek myth you'd know that demigods routinely get jack and shit as a divine birthright. Hercules is the exception, not the rule.

    So let me amend my earlier comment.

    WW defeated an entire squad of Citizenry, captured Astarted, defeated their undefeated champion, and defeated Astarte after dogfighting Citizenry ships destroying several of them, until one actually tagged her causing her to fall to Earth where the impact caused a crater.

    Whereas Astarte fell to one blow from her catgirl Lt when Astarte attacked her in anger that she acknowledged Diana as the new boss.
     
  23. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Good point.

    A lot of demigods, while skilled and strong, don't tend to get things as blatant as super strength.
     
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  24. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    You forgot two important points here.

    The first, she's the only one around the Citizenry with Demigod level strength and durability.

    The second, she's the only one around the Citizenry with the ability to control weapons with her mind.
     
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  25. Rockinalice

    Rockinalice Versed in the lewd.

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    Ok let me say that the myths i was Talking about was DC lore not real world demigods who all that are shown have certain powers standard to the template like most have a basic Brick package (cassie, jason, donna, Hippolyta, Astarte,etc)
    tie to a domain that they may or may not learn to use

    Two it was shown in The Paragon timeline When OL was brought to evaluate the Justice League What would happen if they faced a Spaceship most of the league including WW got wiped by the space Cannons on any decent ships And I think we can go with the Citizenry having decent guns would easily kill her in a few hit

    Three we arnt talking About post crisis earth 1 BS Diana we're talking about Earth 16 Diana who While i believe is implied by Mr.zoat as having the potential to reach that BS is nowhere near that level right now( could be wrong Mr.zoat please correct if so) because she was easily trounced by the Shade ( Implied that she didn't even give him any trouble)

    Four We're not talking about throwaway villain Astarte. we're talking about a version of her that gained at least some respect from grayven who a version of took on Renegade and put up a hell of a fight. So I hope I'm as OK in assuming hes easily above WW 16 and Astarte is going into this fight like a fight to the death because it is and WW is not (or at least I interpreted it that way could be wrong)

    (I will say I'm loving a chance to debate thou dont do it alot)

    We'd have to ask Mr Zoat how our Shade would stack against Main DC Diana
     
  26. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    There's no real reason for them to fight, but Shade 1 doesn't have any particular vulnerability to anything Diana can do as far as I know. The only way to kill him is to surround him in blinding light first, and she doesn't have the ability to do that. Assuming that she was fighting at something approaching full effort her speed would make it hard for him to keep up, but I think he'd win eventually.
     
  27. Tzeentch

    Tzeentch I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Easy enough problem to resolve.

    Show the physical biological data to the elf mages, (like one Anurion The Green) and they'd likely fill in the gaps by applying the ol' "As Above, So Below" method, figuring out what kind of Magicks would fit it to create Starwood.
     
  28. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    Well then you don't know your DC lore. Queen Hippolyta is the daughter of Ares and the powers DC gave her beyond what every Amazon gets is nothing.

    And since we were very obviously discussing the comic book, if you think we were discussing Earth-16 Diana than you were wasting everyone's time.
     
  29. Threadmarks: Veganism (part 11)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    1st September 2012
    15:36 GMT


    When do Amazons peak?

    They've been on that island for three thousand years, but is there a point where they just… Get as good at something as they can get? Orana is considered to be a mistress of the bow even by her fellow Amazons, but she isn't much better than, say, Oliver Queen… Pre-Awakening in both cases, I've got no idea how they stack up now.

    Diana's arms move across her torso, bracers blocking a volley of shots from her aunt's forearm-mounted gun. Astarte doesn't appear to be using her divine abilities to enhance it, so I'm assuming that she's just trying to get more of a feeling for Diana's abilities. A moment later Diana flicks the noose of her lasso at Astarte, who sidesteps and bats at it with the mega rod.

    Diana's in her late eighties. Astarte is early in her fourth millennium, and unlike the women back home has actually spent that time fighting people who were trying to kill her with the full range of weapons available to advanced civilisations. Plus, she's a war demigoddess rather than whatever Diana is trying to pretend she's not. Everything about that says to me that this should be an Astarte beat down.

    Diana ducks and drops, flying across the deck to get under Astarte's guard. Astarte tumbles sideways, swinging the rod at the point Diana will be passing through. But Diana blocks it with her left bracer and reaches for the haft with her right hand.

    Wait, that's not-.

    I can just about see her wince as she discovers that while the head is the most dangerous part, the haft isn't safe for non-owners. Astarte manages to apply her boot to Diana's face, but Diana just rolls in the air with the hit, her own feet striking Astarte hard in the tits and sending her flying backwards.

    She shoots as she goes, and Diana takes a hit to her armour as her arms are out of position to block it.
    Feel My Wrath!
    These shots look a little more solid than the probing shots from earlier, which I suppose is intentional. She takes a hit, she's going to want to retaliate at full power rather than risk looking weak before her people, even for a moment.

    "Mm."

    I glance at Theana.

    "Comments? Questions?"

    "I was worried that she'd be weak."

    "Good news: she's not. If you're interested, I can give you a tally of her victories."

    "It doesn't change anything."

    "It changes what you think of her. It might help you understand-"

    Astarte tries to soak a hit to get into grappling distance but that's the Strength of Gaea! Astarte actually falls on her arse, blinking as she tries to clear her head.

    "-why she's doing this."

    Theana doesn't look particularly perturbed by her mother's setback -Astarte gets back on her feet as Diana takes the opportunity to try talking to her- but she is focusing on it rather than me.

    "It doesn't matter. Strength is strength."

    "Alright, if you're not interested in learning from me, would you mind explaining a few things for me?"

    "What is there to say? We're the Citizenry, the strongest, fiercest and most ruthless."

    "Then why are you working for the other Grayven? You're clearly a bunch of psychotic misandrists, and he's an unapologetic man. And his followers are gordanians, and their military is mostly male. What's going on there?"

    "Mother wants another daughter. There's no point in trying to breed with a weak breeder."

    Diana's a little slow on a dodge and her aunt rips a chunk of hair from her head.

    "I don't really see the appeal, but I suppose it doesn't really cost him anything."

    I haven't felt any sort of divine imprint from him on her, nothing that would let him control her. So what's the plan from his end? Extra troops are nice, but if they're just going to turn on you then you're setting yourself up to fail. So either they're supposed to be a first wave which can die down to a level where he can incorporate them in his other forces without worrying too much, or-.

    Or he was going to remove Astarte anyway, and his choice of replacement is somewhere around here. His own daughter by her?

    "And then what?"

    "Once the girl is born, if she passes the trials, then we will kill the Apokoliptian and his lizards."

    "That'd be a trick. I doubt that shooting him with his own Omega Effect would do it."

    "Why not?"

    "It's a New God thing. The fact that he's able to use it indicates that he's internalised its lessons. He's mastered it. Shooting him with it would be like injecting you with your own blood."

    "We've followed my mother for nearly three thousand years. We have more than one way to kill a god."

    "Then… What? Back to the same old same old?"

    "We fight, we kill. What more is there?"

    "Everything. Reliable food supplies raised by your own hand. An opportunity to live without constantly worrying whether you're seen as fierce enough to survive another day. An opportunity to develop yourself in ways not associated with warfare." Let Our Majesty Humble the Barbarian.

    "We have reliable food now."
    Dimly I feel it as Artemis moves through the Provider holding pen.
    "Do you? I suppose if you like the taste of snake, but wouldn't you like to try something else every so often? Or just have the option to do so? Why make the universe kneel if you can't use it as a footstool? What's the point of fighting and winning if you don't benefit from-"

    Diana gets her noose around Astarte's right forearm and pulls, dragging her aunt across the arena floor while shouting something.

    "-it?"

    "There are two of us, and only one plate of food."

    "Then surely making sure that there's more food is the way to go? I mean, even conquering a few worlds and making them farm for you would result in a more reliable food supply than what you're doing now."

    "It means more if you have to work for it."

    "Yes, but does 'work' have to mean 'drop off snake, stand well back'? Wouldn't it be more rewarding work to grow crops and raise animals yourself? I mean, a halfwit child could press a button, but farm labour takes-."

    "There's no point in fighting the weak."

    "So who do you fight?"

    "The strongest. The ones they think have what it takes to be Citizens."

    "Do they actually have to beat you, or..?"

    "No. Just survive. A few manage to wound me. None beat me."

    "Oh?" I look her over. Okay, kryptonians aren't the rule or anything, but I don't really see what's so scary. "Hey, are you actually going to accept Diana's rule if she wins?"

    I glance at the centre of the arena, where Astarte's lost her gun and just took a left cross to the face. Yeah, Diana's got that. From the sounds of things, she's got that due to actually fighting people in her weight class rather than being massively overpowered compared to everyone around her.

    "Of course not."

    "Then…" I draw my new daiklave. "Why wait?"
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  30. Z3r0Sama

    Z3r0Sama Not too sore, are you?

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    Didn't think Zoat could write a group worse than the Psions, but consider me impressed. Can't wait for the Gravy to open up a can of genocide on them like he did with Psions/Citadellians/Spiders.
     
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